Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > (HD) DVD, Blu-ray & (S)VCD > DVD burning

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th February 2011, 11:30   #61  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
All these questions are directly or indirectly related to you.

The OP wanted to know something that s/he wanted for her/him, not for you.

Please don't deviate every thread to your needs. You are welcome to use the info or to disregard it if you think it's false, but please don't be so egocentric.
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 12:05   #62  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Because I thought it'd be amusing to see which path of confabulation it leads you down, here's a quality test of one of the oldest Verbatim discs I own. I just pulled the first one in the case which means it's from the time I started re-burning all my crappy discs two and a half years ago.
Of course I have no way of remembering what the burn test was like when I originally burned it, so I'll await your deductions as to whether it shows it's aged, it hasn't aged, whether the quality of newer discs has increased, or whether they've decreased, etc etc.

Either way, I've now posted results from the same era as yourself while you've failed to post any current results as requested (or any others to back up your claims) and it shows whether it's today or back in 2008, I'd have had no problem burning an installation disc to Verbatim media and using it to install Ubuntu.

I did wonder, while burning some BluRay discs the other day, whether I'd even care if my collection of DVDs lasts longer than 10 years. Not that I'm trying to give you another Red Herring to chase, but I did wonder how long it'd be before I re-burned the whole lot to BluRay anyway, and whether in ten years I'd be as concerned about theses DVDs still being readable as I'm concerned about the collection of floppy discs under my bed still working. I burned all the floppies I wanted to keep to DVD years ago.

While you're confabulating, you might want to factor the fingerprints into the burn results and any new theories you develop as I didn't bother to clean the disc before testing it. Plus I figured "handling" is part of the deterioration process anyway.


Last edited by yetanotherid; 7th February 2011 at 12:22.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 12:17   #63  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
All these questions are directly or indirectly related to you.
Errrr... That's because I'm discussing the subject with you, but the questions all directly or indirectly relate to the subject. Obviously, you just don't have the answers or more likely, they'd contradict your opinion.
First I'm not offering any on-topic information, now I'm being too specific. Are you coming to the end of your excuses list?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
The OP wanted to know something that s/he wanted for her/him, not for you.
The OP is long gone, and as an excuse, it's a pretty well worn one.
Who filled a recent thread with fascinating information on the history of the analogue pixel which had nothing to do with the OP's question? Please try to keep the hypocrisy in check.
(I'm still waiting for the screen shots you promised to back up your confabulation for that thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Please don't deviate every thread to your needs. You are welcome to use the info or to disregard it if you think it's false, but please don't be so egocentric.
I love it when a poster finds some imaginary moral high ground from which to post. The moral high ground which lets them deviate a thread every which-way to argue their point, but gives them an excuse to criticise other posters for daring to disagree. Where can I buy me some of that moral high ground? Is it expensive, or did it come as a package deal when you bought the bridge?
You're actually very funny. Not so long ago I was poisoning the thread for having the audacity to disagree with you, yet I'm apparently the one who's being egocentric. You really are quite a clown.

Last edited by yetanotherid; 7th February 2011 at 14:49.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 14:50   #64  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
So if Verbatim's quality has dropped, why is it I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from you're "premium collection"?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 15:26   #65  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
My premium collection was TY. And from the mechanical point of view much superior to the JVC ones (which recently bought the media division of TY).

Verbatim premium was MKM, Verbatim normal is still MCC, but also rebadged TY (yes, Taiyo Yuden) albeit rarely, some batches are produced by MBI for Verbatim, and some even in the Emirates. Now, the newest batches I've seen in Germany are manufactured in China, God knows how.
Maxell did manufactured once themselves the media, but switched almost immediately to foreign manufacturers. Now it's crap.
Sony still used the same MID, but nothing is manufactured in its own factories, I don't even remember those times. Was it 4x the last Sony one?
Fuji also did itself manufacture some DVDRs, again, with mass production, they switched to a relabelling factory.
Panasonic, well, does anyone remember those times?

The rest of the manufacturers (I was able to see, some manufacture for Japan only and some are OEM only) are worse. Yet ok for all-day recordings*.

*When the recording was an elite sport, both the recorders and their media were of premium quality. People thought usually twice or more times whether they would store something on a DVDR or not. Price-oriented. So was the photography. And the VHS.
When however the media and the recorders became cheap enough, not only the quality dropped, but also the expectations. People put everything on DVDRs and simply do not care whether it would be readable or not next year. Who cares about next year? Friends of mine shot literally thousands of photos, they look like a film reel, saying, I'll pick only the best shots. They never did this, instead they burn all of them on CDRs/DVDRs and throw them in a drawer only to find them when they move to another house.
Quality means money. Why would someone invest money in something only 1% or less would care? Cheap, cheaper, cheapest! Bad, worse, ... And they have already supporters, right, yetanotherid?

Be happy that you are not touched by this phenomenon. Yet. But you have time to see the evolution of the BDR. Already MIC (MIT was just an intermediary stage).
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 16:49   #66  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Please don't deviate every thread to your needs. You are welcome to use the info or to disregard it if you think it's false, but please don't be so egocentric.
And your previous post, which avoids the topic almost completely, doesn't apply?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 16:51   #67  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
So if Verbatim's quality has dropped, why is it I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?

Are you ever going to post screen shots of the non-premium collection burns you made a few years ago. Or is expecting anything more than further rants from you just a dream I'm having?

Last edited by yetanotherid; 7th February 2011 at 17:20.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 17:04   #68  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Why would someone invest money in something only 1% or less would care? Cheap, cheaper, cheapest! Bad, worse, ... And they have already supporters, right, yetanotherid?
Probably for the same reason manufacturers still produce medium to high quality cameras while the majority of people buy $150 point and shoots. Your point is just confabulation without any evidence to support it... and therefore.... silly.

Why do prices drop as demand increases? Do I have to explain basic economics?
Ever heard of competition? If you want people to buy your product you either have to make it cheaper than competing products or make it better, or both. It doesn't mean there won't be a market for junk, but it doesn't mean there won't be a market for a better quality product either. Why do you think people pay more for Verbatim or TY discs than other brands? For the social status they provide? Honestly....
If originally a product was of a good quality as you've stated, where's the rule which says the quality has to drop in order to mass produce it?

Your arguments offer no proof and to be honest, they're not even all that entertaining any more.

No comment on my screen shot of a burn from two and a half years ago?????
The way you subjectively ignore things which don't suit you is enough to tell me you're wrong all on it's own.

I may have forgotten to ask, but can you tell me.... if Verbatim's quality has dropped, why is it I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?

Last edited by yetanotherid; 7th February 2011 at 17:21.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 17:19   #69  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Sorry, I forgot to add one final question.....
If Verbatim's quality has dropped, why is it I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 17:24   #70  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
You never experienced quality, you've been probably born after Verbatim dropped the premium line. That explains why you consider this -> http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...2&postcount=62 as a good burn.

I'll avoid Verbatim for BD (even for HTL disks). I'll stick with Sony and Panasonic, only MIJ. More expensive, but better.
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 17:37   #71  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
You never experienced quality, you've been probably born after Verbatim dropped the premium line. That explains why you consider this -> http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...2&postcount=62 as a good burn.
Where did I say I considered it a good burn?? Putting words in my mouth again?
I said it was a two and a half year old disc, the first one I pulled from the case, and the quality of the burn test is what I posted.

So, in regard to my question.....
If Verbatim's quality has dropped, why is it I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?

Obviously my previous screen shot was yet another excuse for you to try side-tracking the issue and avoid answering it, so I think you've proven my point. Your advice is confabulation and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Unless of course you want to provide an example of one of these quality burns I've never experienced? One, I assume, which must be better than the recent burns I posted. My guess is you won't, because you can't, and therefore I'll from now on be viewing your opinion with the contempt it deserves.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 18:30   #72  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
I'm not talking about Verbatim, I'm talking about all of them. Verbatim was your idea.

Feel free not to believe, it won't make a difference to the world.
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 18:51   #73  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
I'm not talking about Verbatim, I'm talking about all of them. Verbatim was your idea.
It's not easy debating a topic with someone who has such a varying grip on reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
I'm afraid there are no longer good DVDRs nowadays. I own some CDRs that are some 12 years old but still yield lower C1/C2 than a brand new CDR burnt yesterday. The DVD technology is close to its end, no manufacturers spend time and energy for producing quality items ... yes, not even Verbatim.
My idea????????????
I'm just debating your contention as I regularly use Verbatim discs so they're the discs I can discuss from experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Feel free not to believe, it won't make a difference to the world.
Thanks, but I was going to consider most of what you posted a load of nonsense, even without your permission. And of course as the thread has progressed, and you've failed to answer more and more questions, you've pretty much proved me to be correct by default.

Can you provide an example of one of these quality burns I've never experienced?

And can you explain why, if Verbatim's quality has dropped, I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 19:05   #74  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
As I said lucky you!

My entire coaster collection, which fits a spindle of 25, grew only recently, mostly from DL blanks. In my first 5 years I had only 3. 2010 was the worst year in terms of bad burns.
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 19:23   #75  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
I've not burned many dual layer blanks, but just out of curiosity can you explain why, if Verbatim's quality has dropped, I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 19:31   #76  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
AutoRepeat is enabled? Got lessons from a parrot?
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2011, 19:48   #77  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
AutoRepeat is enabled? Got lessons from a parrot?
No, I'm just debating with a duck. Lots of quack, very little substance.

Can you explain why, if Verbatim's quality has dropped, I'm producing burns of the same quality today as you were getting two years ago, as long of course, you took the samples from your "premium collection"?
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 15:58   #78  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
My entire coaster collection, which fits a spindle of 25, grew only recently, mostly from DL blanks. In my first 5 years I had only 3. 2010 was the worst year in terms of bad burns.
Well, maybe you just need to burn more regularly to blow the dust out of the burners, although depending on how many discs you actually burned in 2010, it mightn't be a bad average. It's hard to judge when you consistently don't supply all the relevant information. How many dual layer discs have you burned in past years compared with 2010?
I still have days where I throw one in five away. Not that they're necessarily unreadable, I'm just fussy about the ones I intend to keep. They're the inexplicable "bad burn" days.

Now that I've pretty much come to the end of my burning marathon, high quality burns are still the norm, and the "blowing out the dust" theory is so far the only one I have as to why.

The two burns from today are below. Printable Verbatim discs, burned at 16x (not 1x ). Better than my burns to printable Verbatim media 6 months ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
You never experienced quality, you've been probably born after Verbatim dropped the premium line. That explains why you consider this -> http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...2&postcount=62 as a good burn.
I'm still eagerly awaiting screenshots of these burns you referred to, assuming in your advancing years you're not imagining them. They'll probably be nothing short of phenomenal to be better than my non-premium line Verbatim burns of today.



yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 16:14   #79  |  Link
Ghitulescu
Registered User
 
Ghitulescu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,643
These are good burns, but that's only one side of the story. An initial good burn provides a safety reserve in comparison to a bad one, however accelerated ageing tests show that sometimes a medium quality burn of a stable DVD is better than a good burn on a bad quality disk. Since I don't own such laboratory equipment I can't give you any info (copyright infringement, however anyone can buy the articles online).
__________________
Born in the USB (not USA)
Ghitulescu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2011, 18:37   #80  |  Link
yetanotherid
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 723
Well I guess we've pretty much established that Verbatim's quality hasn't dropped, at least when it comes to the quality of the initial burn, but as I don't intend to indulged the copyright excuse and start buying articles to determine how long they'll last, I think I'll just wait until I'm the one who can offer something substantial, run the quality tests again, then post back (I know which discs they were and the screenshots are saved to photobucket). I guess we'll be able to continue the discussion then. Say.... four or five years?

Last edited by yetanotherid; 9th February 2011 at 18:41.
yetanotherid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.