madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[QBhd]

Originally Posted by RainyDog

I've discovered that my TV (Sony 55W905) can only display 4:4:4 chroma in Game or Graphics modes but only properly displays 24fps input without judder in Cinema mode. So I need to make a choice between the two unfortunately.

Am I correct in thinking that if I sacrifice 4:4:4 chroma there's no point in using NNEDI3 for chroma upscaling with madVR as it'll just be blurred by the TV anyway?

I have a 4:2:2 Plasma and I notice enough of a difference with NNEDI3 on chroma upscaling to keep using it.

Originally Posted by Megalith

Wait, so the effects of madVR are only active with certain hardware acceleration options like DXVA2?

I have never used DXVA or any other HW accel and all options working fine

QB

[Nui]

I have a ridiculous problem and one of you might be able to help me.
Basically I want to use the APL pattern using madTPG. But, my television, panasonics sloppiest plasma ever made, prevents me from using it. Reason is, that the lines containing the measurement field MUST be black or white. Otherwise they will have an IRE depended colorshift.

Is there a way I can black out the sides of the pattern? An extra application for example?

[Asmodian]

Have you played with the "Image area:" and "Background:" sliders? The Background slider allows you to change the color of the background between black, shades of gray, and white. The Image area slider changes the size of the active test pattern. If you double click in the image madVR Test Pattern Generator will go full screen.

[Nui]

I know what they do. I need the "background" to be confined to the lines above and below the image area, not on the same lines. Special requirement, because my display is a bit stupid

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

That thread isn't about a bug with AR for downscaling causing aliased text with NNEDI3.

That is an issue caused by using NNEDI3 doubling for luma but not for chroma which causes chroma misalignment artifacts which are then exaggerated by AR and/or LL downscaling with the sharper downscaling options. Use chroma doubling too and they go away completely.

Catmul-Rom+AR+LL is good because it has the lest artifacts and you get the benefits of LL downscaling.

Edit: Chroma misalignment probably isn't the right way to describe it, if the luma is sharper than the chroma that means the chroma has been blurred more so it bleeds further into the surrounding pixels but it is still perfectly aligned with the luma.

Chroma doubling is both a GPU killer and a waste quality wise, so until/if this "bug" is fixed, I'm not using AR on downscaling.

I don't prefer Catmul-Rom for downscaling because it's softer, and it's also aliased if you use AR without chroma doubling just like Lanczos. To each their own.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

Chroma doubling is both a GPU killer and a waste quality wise, so until/if this "bug" is fixed, I'm not using AR on downscaling.

I don't prefer Catmul-Rom for downscaling because it's softer, and it's also aliased if you use AR without chroma doubling just like Lanczos. To each their own.

Absolutely; it is perfectly reasonable to turn off AR since you don't see the artifacts from using NNEDI3 doubling only on the luma even with a very sharp down scaling algorithm. It isn't really a bug though, or at least it probably isn't. It is an artifact of the way all the math interacts but everything is working "as designed" if not as planned.

I was objecting to the identification of where the problem was, not the workaround for it.

[Supun92]

Guys. I tried to setup madVR for potplayer in my laptop. But madVR works properly when a select power-saver mode from AMD Switchable Graphics(running on Intel graphics), but when i select Performance mode from AMD Switchable Graphics (running on AMD Radeon) potplayer just shows black screen & audio works.

My System specs:
Model- HP ProBook 450 G1
CPU- Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4200M CPU @ 2.50GHz
Ram-4GB DDR3
GPU-2GB AMD Radeon HD8750M
HDD-750GB

Does anyone of you know what is wrong with the system& is there any way to solve this?

[Asmodian]

That sounds like the same problem newer Optimus (Nvidia's version of switchable graphics) users have. I don't believe anyone has found a solution yet, sorry.

[generalmx]

Long overdue follow-up on http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...41#post1686141 --- while I can't say for certain, I'm pretty sure the original problem of pan&scan problems was due to use of ReClock and the fact I was doing anime, where it can be much more easily spotted. I've mostly eliminated my problems thanks to some configuration and hardware changes I've since made:

- Using Toasty's CRU, I successfully added 1920x1200@48Hz to my main monitor (it's a workstation monitor, so no EDID 24Hz or 30Hz), and set up rules in madVR to switch to this as necessary.
- ReClock is set to default to 24Hz and "Auto".
- I setup <480p, 480p, 720p, and 1080p rules in madVR, which helped significantly.
- I further setup 720p@24 and 720p@30 rules, as it seems doing 720p@30 frames at 60Hz can be just a bit too taxing for my single watercooled R9 290X (NNEID w/ Luma Doubling upscaled to 1200p).

I'd also like to confirm as I'm sure others have in the past that madVR is brilliant with the few of us using 4K HDTVs. As my previous cheapo 32" 1080p TN HDTV had serious trouble doing both 24Hz and 30Hz on a PC (some sort of timing issue I couldn't be bothered with), and as I can certainly use the extra desktop space for programming, I decided to splurge a little on the 39" 2160p MVA Seiki, which can also do 1080p@120Hz (using CRU), as well as up to 4K@30Hz. Changing my madVR rules only a little, I now have madVR doing most of the work on scaling up content to 4K@30Hz and 4K@24Hz (NNEID, of course), which looks a hell of a lot better on mixed <1080p content then the display's built-in scaler.

The rules one can setup in madVR aren't bad at all. I even wonder if the next step might be to open it up a bit more such that madVR could call an external program upon exit that looks at the last file's recorded final stats (same as CTRL+J) and tries to intelligently make up rules based on that and previous user configuration. A start would be to let madVR record these stats per-file in a simple text file, then have someone make a parser that suggests rules. I hesitate to suggest this quality-balancing feature to be added outright to madVR, since I bet it would be an absolute hell to support, partly as it's ultimately up to user preference.

Oh, and I'd like to query which is better to code for in OpenCL and for video decoding --- Nvidia or AMD? Since I've been hearing that while Nvidia pushes CUDA, OpenCL with AMD is actually a bigger PITA to code for (I think already mentioned in this thread, but I can't find it). I'm actually considering making my next upgrade either getting a different CPU with an Intel GPU to try QuickSync, and/or an Nvidia GTX 750 Ti secondary; I think I really liked CUVID support for running @ 60 FPS, which eliminated the motion problems pretty much completely.

And as always, a huge thank you to madShi

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Absolutely; it is perfectly reasonable to turn off AR since you don't see the artifacts from using NNEDI3 doubling only on the luma even with a very sharp down scaling algorithm. It isn't really a bug though, or at least it probably isn't. It is an artifact of the way all the math interacts but everything is working "as designed" if not as planned.

I was objecting to the identification of where the problem was, not the workaround for it.

Ya, I just don't know why most people still recommend using AR for downscaling if they use something other than NNEDI3 doubling for chroma. The jaggedness it causes on diagonal lines (text, signs, cartoons, ect) is so obvious, it kind of defeats the purpose of using NNEDI3 in the first place.

Lanczos 3 with the anti-ringing filter:


Lanczos 3 without the anti-ringing filter:

[Asmodian]

We aren't "recommending AR for down-scaling", we are recommending catmull-rom + AR + LL for down scaling. That particular test image will probably look better (i.e. sharper) with something else but if you want LL down-scaling with minimal artifacts catmull-rom is the preferred option. I don't recommend Lanczos3+AR for down-scaling, I don't think anyone has have they?

If sharpness > all then Lanczos 3 or 4 without AR is probably a good choice. However, I want my night skies fully populated.

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

We aren't "recommending AR for down-scaling", we are recommending catmull-rom + AR + LL for down scaling. That particular test image will probably look better (i.e. sharper) with something else but if you want LL down-scaling with minimal artifacts catmull-rom is the preferred option. I don't recommend Lanczos3+AR for down-scaling, I don't think anyone has have they?

If sharpness > all then Lanczos 3 or 4 without AR is probably a good choice. However, I want my night skies fully populated.

Catmull-Rom + AR + LL for down scaling causes the same jagged text. It is no better than Lanczos in this scenario. I don't know what night skies has to do with anything. I see the same detail retention in real world content between CR and Lanczos, just Lanczos being a bit sharper overall.

[Asmodian]

I see, I would be wiling to compromise on Catmull-Rom + LL without AR for down-scaling after NNEDI3 doubling the luma. I find ringing harder to notice when down-scaling while aliasing is more obvious.

I like LL because it keeps bright details on a dark background much better, try down-scaling a night sky with and without LL. Lanczos with LL rings too much even for me and catmull-rom is sharp enough for down-scaling. To each their own though, there is a reason madVR has options.

[6233638]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

Catmull-Rom + AR + LL for down scaling causes the same jagged text. It is no better than Lanczos in this scenario. I don't know what night skies has to do with anything. I see the same detail retention in real world content between CR and Lanczos, just Lanczos being a bit sharper overall.

No, it does not cause jagged text.

Using NNEDI3 Image Doubling without enabling Chroma Doubling, or using a different number of taps for Image/Chroma doubling results in this aliasing.

It is the quality of the downscaling with CR+LL+AR which allows this to be more easily seen. It is not caused by CR+LL+AR.


If you are using anything else for downscaling, you should disable the linear light option. It just looks bad.

[ajp2k11]

@MadVR or anybody else for that matter

I've had problems with MadVR for a long time now where I would only get a black screen with the audio playing. Sometime, only on rare occasions, the file starts playing after up to 30 seconds. It seems a bit random but apparently MadVR can't determine the refresh rate of my laptop screen because it says 0Hz.

Anyway, today I discovered that if I play a file and then move MPC-HC's window randomly over the screen (50% zoom works best) the video will start to play after a few seconds and it says refresh rate 120Hz just like it should. I've tested this many times now and each time it works...

Just wanted to share my findings.... weird huh?

(Win 8.1, AMD 6650M/Catalyst 13.12 I think from Windows update)

EDIT: Of course, when I rebooted it doesn't seem to work anymore... even weirder. :-S

[StinDaWg]

Originally Posted by 6233638

No, it does not cause jagged text.

Using NNEDI3 Image Doubling without enabling Chroma Doubling, or using a different number of taps for Image/Chroma doubling results in this aliasing.

It is the quality of the downscaling with CR+LL+AR which allows this to be more easily seen. It is not caused by CR+LL+AR.


If you are using anything else for downscaling, you should disable the linear light option. It just looks bad.

I think we've already established that. My point is you can't use AR on any of the downscaling options if you don't also use chroma doubling. It will cause jagged text on anything from CR all the way up to Lanczos. I've tried them all, and it is noticeable on all. If that can't be "fixed" because of the way doubling works, then I would recommend for everyone to turn off AR on downscaling unless you want jagged lines. Chroma doubling is too resource intense for me to turn on, so it's not an option. Truth be told, I don't see any more ringing with 720p content with it on or off, but I can see the jagged text easily. It's the lesser of two evils.

Good news though, it looks like this issue is going to be fixed in the next build...

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...9&postcount=21

Originally Posted by madshi

FYI, this problem should be fixed in the next build. The problem occurred because the latest madVR build is trying to correct the NNEDI3 0.5 pixel shift, without adjusting the AR filter accordingly. It will be some time before the next build is released, though, since I'm quite busy with other stuff atm...

[Asmodian]

Good news! It really is a bug after all too.

[dansrfe]

@madshi,

Although I understand that the underlying "black/frozen screen" problem with integrated/dedicated gpu machines and madVR may be the fault of an external library, is it possible to at least pinpoint where the problem is rather than ignore it altogether?

Multiple people with 7/8xx GPUs have cited a problem with getting madVR/MPC-HC to render out with the NVidia GPU selected and no one really knows where the problem is occurring. DirectX is backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0 and Windows 8.1 comes with DirectX 11.2 so attempting to install an older version of this (which can't be done anyway) doesn't seem to be the right solution.

Is there any information that I and others experiencing this problem can provide that would aid in pinpointing the problem and closing in on a potential solution? Will remote access to a machine with this problem help?

[huhn]

Originally Posted by dansrfe

Multiple people with 7/8xx GPUs have cited a problem with getting madVR/MPC-HC to render out with the NVidia GPU selected and no one really knows where the problem is occurring. DirectX is backwards compatible with DirectX 9.0 and Windows 8.1 comes with DirectX 11.2 so attempting to install an older version of this (which can't be done anyway) doesn't seem to be the right solution.

you have to install dx 9 for dx 9 games to. you need the libs anyway and dx10-11 doesn't have them. because the GPU is backwards compatible doesn't mean you doesn't need the libs...

and i highly recommend you to ask nvidia

[DragonQ]

Direct 9.0c hasn't been updated in like 4 years, I'm amazed Microsoft don't just include the entire runtime with Windows by now (like they do with .NET).