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8th August 2003, 23:41 | #83 | Link | |
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Multipass will spread a little better the scarce BR available, but that's it. On 1 CD rips there's no much BR to spare. So you may say, "I'll go for multipass 2 CDs then", to which a good answer would be: go for OPV, 2 CDs. Half the time, comparable quality.
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) |
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9th August 2003, 18:28 | #84 | Link | |
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Re: This stuff is GREAT
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So I did some more checking. I tried the movie above without any filtering, and with the simple, quicker and worthy UnDot()+Deen() companion. Here are my findings. The columns are sorted by descending Q. Code:
Movie: Solaris Length: 1:32:46 (133468 frames, 23.976 fps) (no credits) Audio BR 96 kbps Stereo Target size 1 CD Target MPV size 713 MB Target Video BR 1.073 kbps D2Sroba Default values Setup Resolution_________________ SVCD SVCD SVCD CVD Determined Q_______________ 14 12 10 6 Estimated Video BR_________ 1.123 1.073 1.092 1.071 Filters SemiAutoCrop & Resize______ Yes Yes Yes Yes MAF________________________ No Yes No Yes UnDot()+Deen()_____________ No No Yes No Results Actual MPV size [MB]_______ 726 704 719 700 Encode Duration____________ 1:03 2:45 2:09 2:04 Target Size/Actual Size____ 98% 101% 99% 102% CCE Speed__________________ 1,47 0,56 0,72 0,75
I'm certain this is a one movie only test, but at least clears up the "less that wonderful" results after all. Things like this remind me of people still trying to build perpetual motion machines, turning lead into gold and stuff like that The bottom line is, IMHO, MAF is great, but not much greater than simple known already filtering, and the most important thing is it will not do any magic, nor is the panacea to 1 CD rips. Just compresses the source a bit, and takes a lot of time.
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) Last edited by r6d2; 9th August 2003 at 21:37. |
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9th August 2003, 20:14 | #85 | Link |
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Ain't that just some doody in your oatmeal!
Just dropped my Q by 10 points using my standard deen(), undot() and undot() again after the import line of Gert's semi-auto over using semi-auto with MAF. Well, at least I know this encode like the back of my hand so I can do a good compare when I screen it. |
9th August 2003, 21:19 | #86 | Link | |
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Re: Re: This stuff is GREAT
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I do agree that if you are encoding a slow action film, some parts of the MA script are really not necessary. Like the "blurring" part. You will still benefit from the "Temporal" MA section of the filter, as it will help clean up very low action parts of the movie. But I would still use undot and a very low temporal filter statically on all frames, to reduce noise spots It's really up to anyone to "Plug-in" whatever filter they want to make adaptive. The framework is already there, provided by AviSynth, so it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a fixed Temporal/Blurr MA filter. The limit is the imagination -kwag |
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9th August 2003, 21:43 | #87 | Link | |
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Re: Re: Re: This stuff is GREAT
Hi, Kwag, and welcome back to the forum
Word of mouth is you're doing some testing with CCE and DVD2SVCD. Did you try the MAF+CCE stuff? Quote:
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) |
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9th August 2003, 21:51 | #88 | Link | ||
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Re: Re: Re: Re: This stuff is GREAT
Quote:
Quote:
-kwag |
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9th August 2003, 22:21 | #89 | Link | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This stuff is GREAT
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If I only could get MPEG-1 working with TMGPEnc and DVD2SVCD to take advantage on the good low BR MPEG-1 encodes you do...
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) |
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9th August 2003, 23:54 | #90 | Link |
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Yep, my test encode using just standard semi-auto with undot(), deen() and undot() again after the import line was as good or better than the semi-auto w/MAF I did yesterday. Source 147 mins progressive NTSC, Bitrate was 907, Q for 1st run was 48 with bias 10.
480x480 4:3 full screen. Encoding method used was 1 pass Roba which is 2 passes total. Last edited by DDogg; 10th August 2003 at 00:00. |
10th August 2003, 00:18 | #91 | Link | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: This stuff is GREAT
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SemiAutoCrop, standard: Q=63 (not by hard limit, but by actual BR) MAF: Q=62 MAF modified with Deen() instead of STMEdian: Q=58 IMHO, all encodes suck, even on 100% visual you can see the artifacts. I'd try SemiAuto standard with UnDot()+Deen()+UnDot() as per DDogg's suggestion, but I decided to go 2 discs anyway and put in a second audio track. (@Kwag, I guess it was not a high action movie after all. Maybe we can ask Zemeckis to incorporate more action on a future remake to get it on 1 CD )
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) |
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10th August 2003, 01:24 | #92 | Link | |
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Quote:
Undot() Deen() Import Semi ... Undot() for me file size was only a bit smaller. Tested a chapter at 50 Q bias 14 with SemiMAF =20,065 meg, Semi Un+Deen+un =20,040 meg |
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10th August 2003, 18:24 | #93 | Link |
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I just did Daredevil. 480x480 SVCD. DVD2SVCd with MAF script. CCE speed = .650 D2Sroba came up with a Q of 38 for a 1 Cd encode.
Code:
======================================================== D2SRoBa v2.4.4 - DVD2SVCD plugin, by tylo OS Version: WIN_XP -------------------------------------------------------- - DVD2SVCD Shutdown - 2003-08-10 09:33:49 -------------------------------------------------------- Settings: - CD size : 800 - Number of CD's : auto - Worst Q. factor : 40 + One pass VBR Robshot/Bach : 1 - Sample percentage : 2.0 - Sample GOPs : 1 - Adjust Q. : 0.8 - Safety Zone : 34 + Do credits bitrate tweak : 0 - Start time : 0:00:00 - Bitrate : 1000 -------------------------------------------------------- - Movie length : 01:43:35 (149030 frames, 23.976 fps) - Audio size est : 124315983. bytes (160 + 0 kbps) - CD user data size : 833237920. = (800 - 5)*1024*1024 - 380000 - SelectRangeEvery : every 750, select 15 frames - Num. sample frames : 2985 -------------------------------------------------------- Calculations: - Estimated mpv size : 666565608. (Q=40, 857 kbps, 13350992 sample sz) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - Number of CDs : 1 - Target mpv size : 689790437. (887 kbps) -------------------------------------------------------- - Binary search for Q: - Estimated mpv size : 759827533. (Q=32, 977 kbps, 15218984 sample sz) - Computed mpv size : 713196571. (Q=36, 917 kbps, (Q40+Q32)/2) - Estimated mpv size : 687524668. (Q=38, 884 kbps, 13770792 sample sz) - Estimated mpv size : 697181213. (Q=37, 897 kbps, 13964208 sample sz) -------------------------------------------------------- - Q Weight : (689790437. / 49.9262981574539 - 13770792) / (14284988. - 13770792) - Adjust Q : (38 + 1.0 - 8.82587379954006e-002 - (0.8)) = 38.1117412620046 - Determined Q. : 38 -------------------------------------------------------- Replace values in ecl file: - opv_q_factor : 38 - opv_brate_max : 1931 ==> 2530 - vbr_brate_avg : 6000 ==> 887 -------------------------------------------------------- - Encoding Movie - 2003-08-10 09:54:50 -------------------------------------------------------- - Actual mpv file size: 08/10/2003 12:32 PM 690475136 Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv |
10th August 2003, 18:39 | #94 | Link | |
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) |
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10th August 2003, 20:10 | #96 | Link |
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I do some tests on this topic, too, so can someone post this undot(),Deen(), Semi(),Undot()-Script, cause I'm a total newbie on this.
I wouldn't get it work in 5 years! My first results on this topic is, that it doesn't matter what script or how many cds you take, the human eye won't realize any change! The TV-screen is so "bad", I didn't notice the artifacts which are clearly visibel on the PC-screen, and I think noone would! I'll go for a 1cd encode of every movie 'til I get a DVD writer, the options to get a satisfying 1cd encode are quite good, good enough! This is just my opinion, so feel free to persuade me of another opinion, but plz with some understandable, no theoretical or technical stuff! Greetz, Crackhead |
10th August 2003, 23:37 | #97 | Link | |||
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Quote:
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My next TV will (hopefully) be an HDTV. Its resolution are about 720x1280 (Progressive) and 1080x1920 (Interlaced). That's quite more than double what we have today. My DVD player has a zoom mode (I guess most do). So, when encoding, I do my tests in 2x Zoom mode. If it's not too blurry, my bet is that this encode will look reasonably well on an HDTV. There are currently players being developed to support this kind of resolutions (as well as DivX! and MPEG-4 in general!) On sample here: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/video...ackground.html As I said, this is my bet. I don't know if it is a good one
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MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD. FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion. Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported! Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC. Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion 3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster) Last edited by r6d2; 10th August 2003 at 23:39. |
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11th August 2003, 11:06 | #98 | Link |
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I have a 43" HDTV.
SVCD's done at 480x480 look great. CVD at 352x480 looks blocky and jaggy. I don't use my Terapin VCD recorder anymore since it's CBR1150 VCD @ 352x240 and it it blocky but watchable. |
16th August 2003, 08:00 | #99 | Link |
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I just purchased Gangs of New York 2 CD set which has the movie split into 2 discs, which, when I realized this I thought it would be a great test for this (3 cd's would be a pain to make out of 2 different DVD's; ~1:30 a piece). I used this method, and ended up with Q64 (not surprising, because it's over 4 gb's to begin with (one part), and I'm doing 128 main, 96 comments audio as a test). Other movies that I have done without the MAF script (and without 2nd audio) do not look anywhere near as good as this one, even with lower Q values. I'm not sure what is causing this, but if anyone has this movie and is willing to try, please do, and tell me I'm not crazy?
If this is the results I can get with this script, then I will never go back to the original method I was encoding with. Thanks for all your suggestions, DDogg, and everyone else in this thread!!! Regards, Barker Last edited by Barker; 16th August 2003 at 08:02. |
16th August 2003, 15:26 | #100 | Link |
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Barker, as I am sure you know, it ALL depends on the compressibility of a given source. Some 90 minute sources will look pretty decent, whereas some will not. This is definitely not a one size fits all kind of thing. As mentioned before are the classic examples of "The Mtrx" and "SPRyan". Forgetting the lengths, the first example is material that compresses extremely well, while the second is pure hell and normally requires nearly twice the bitrate for the same section of length (that maybe is slight exaggeration to make the point).
You might want to play around with making a notation of the size of the first Q32 prediction run (D2SRoBa_Q32.mpv) of D2SRoBa on a source you have found to have YOUR minimum acceptable quality on 1 CD for YOUR viewing vehicle. Chances are (not always), if another encode has the same or smaller size for that same prediction pass, it will be ok to at least try to put it on 1 cd (assuming you used the same script and the same settings in CCE). This can save you a lot of useless attempts and wasted time and it takes into consideration both the compressibility AND the length of the source. Here is an example of my own personal "Compression Index" (I always use the same test script and same test cce settings [Edit: sample size in D2SRoBa for this test was 1%]: 1> "Final Dstination" --- D2SRoBa_Q32.mpv = 8,196KB, Len -- 133341 frames Time 1:32:41 Target mpv size:-(1043 kbps) 2> "The Usual Sspxts" - D2SRoBa_Q32.mpv = 10,380KB, Len - 148070 frames Time 1:42:55 Target mpv size:-(926 kbps) 3> "The Mtrix" -------- D2SRoBa_Q32.mpv = 8,388KB, Len --- 186356 frames Time 2:09:32 Target mpv size:-(709 kbps) I know from experience that #1 and #3 (barely) on 1 cd is acceptable to me, whereas #2 is not. So, if the D2SRoBa_Q32.mpv is much bigger than 8,300 I normally just go for 2 cds and same myself a lot of aggravation. Note above how the target bitrate is not the indicator of quality! Last edited by DDogg; 16th August 2003 at 19:51. |
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