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Old 18th January 2005, 09:31   #1  |  Link
goretusk
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DVD Backup Degradation

Sometimes a backup of mine will not work correctly right after it is burned. At some point in the video it will just freeze...or be really jumpy, it of course doesn't do it when I test it on the PC. I heard that taking out layer breaks where they are not necessary helps, so I've been doing that.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows another reason, something to avoid...or precautions to take. My Chappelle Show Season 1 DVD 1 is now doing it, so I'm going to have to redo that one. I'm worried that I'm wasting time and money on my backups!

What are the possible causes? Can disc labels have anything to do with it? The encode process, maybe the DVDs are bad? I mean...how can I tell before I burn it or test the burn after I've done it to make sure it will hold up. I can't watch every single movie right after I do the backup :/ Too time consuming.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.
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Old 18th January 2005, 10:37   #2  |  Link
outsideAG
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I certainly can't say for sure what your problem is, but this sounds similar to problems I have had with bad burns.

What kind of DVDR media are you using?

I use Ritek G-05 (8X certified) and it will have errors sometimes even burning at 4X.

I would recommend getting DVD Info, and using its burn verification feature to make sure that your burn was succesful.
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Old 18th January 2005, 11:25   #3  |  Link
Fishman0919
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The problem you are having can be a number of thing, type of media (DVD-r - DVD+r, brand), DVD Player, program you are using to burn..... a whole bunch of thing. Any Info you can give may help in solving your problem.
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Old 18th January 2005, 12:51   #4  |  Link
goretusk
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I am also using Ritek media G05. I've tried running programs after a burn has completed, and it never gives an error...even if the disc is just totally hosed, I never get any errors! It drives me crazy, I've tried DVD Info, and I've tried Kprobe on a computer with a liteon dvd drive.

I'm using the DVD-RB method to do all my backups, and then I'm using imgtool to create an image and dvd decrypter to burn them. Any suggestions are welcomed.
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Old 18th January 2005, 12:55   #5  |  Link
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ive heard of people that have playback problems that were solved by stopping the use of labels. they sometimes cause wobble in the disk during playback which causes some data to have to be read multiple times causing buffer to empty and cause jumpiness/blockiness or worse. this wont happen with all players
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Old 18th January 2005, 13:13   #6  |  Link
goretusk
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That's an interesting thought Trahald, only thing is...it will do it on all dvd players, except for PC DVD-ROM which seem to be able to read anything without any problems. Currently I'm putting one of the DVDs that is jacked through DVDinfo, and it's finding errors...but I've watched it before and this is a recent development :/...so I don't understand. I've watch it before...there aren't any scratches or anything.

Another rumor I heard about was that the ink from the labels bleeds through the back of the label and is somehow corrosive to the disc? Possibly making it develop playback issues. Like I said, this is a new development...some discs do this right after burning, but that's a bad rip...because I've burned two discs, back to back...with the same image, and they both had the same issue.
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Old 18th January 2005, 14:21   #7  |  Link
jdobbs
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Re: DVD Backup Degradation

Quote:
Originally posted by goretusk
Sometimes a backup of mine will not work correctly right after it is burned. At some point in the video it will just freeze...or be really jumpy, it of course doesn't do it when I test it on the PC. I heard that taking out layer breaks where they are not necessary helps, so I've been doing that.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows another reason, something to avoid...or precautions to take. My Chappelle Show Season 1 DVD 1 is now doing it, so I'm going to have to redo that one. I'm worried that I'm wasting time and money on my backups!

What are the possible causes? Can disc labels have anything to do with it? The encode process, maybe the DVDs are bad? I mean...how can I tell before I burn it or test the burn after I've done it to make sure it will hold up. I can't watch every single movie right after I do the backup :/ Too time consuming.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.
I'd suggest you not remove "layer breaks". There actually is no such thing as a "layer break" except at the physical level. What you are removing is an SCR discontinuity. One reason for an SCR discontinuity can be a layer break -- but there are many, many other reasons. The problem you are experiencing could very possibly be due to the fact that you've removed a discontinuity that should have been left alone. Jumpy and freezing video can both be signs of problems with system timing (related to SCR).

Also -- I would never recommend the use of paper labels on a DVD. You are much better using the clear plastic type (lightweight).

There have also been reports of some cheaper DVD-R's not holding their data over time. Personally I've never had a problem.
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Old 18th January 2005, 14:31   #8  |  Link
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Just for curiousity, at what speed did you burn the disks ?
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Old 18th January 2005, 15:10   #9  |  Link
ron spencer
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to be honest the only media you should use is beither Verbatim, Maxell (real maxell) or TY...why use Ritek? Sooooo many posts of bad media.
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Old 18th January 2005, 15:17   #10  |  Link
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There's another issue... compatibility between Burner and media.
Just an example:
I have a Samsung ts-h552b(dl) and an LG gsa-4040b
Sometime ago I bought a spindle of DVD-R 8X (brand BUDGET)
I couldn't burn that media on my Samsung (not even at 2X) but on my LG they were burned at 4X (the maximum burning speed of this old friend) with a 100% success.

My advice to you is that you should try to find the best media for your burner.

keep it UP
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Old 18th January 2005, 15:58   #11  |  Link
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I agree...which is why I listed the 3 brands above....no matter what forum you search these brands (verbatim, ty, and Maxell) ALL burn without people complaining....it is the off-brands (BUDGET?????) that mess it all up. I would be willing to bet that these 3 are the most compatible at ALL speeds amoungst writers
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Old 18th January 2005, 16:51   #12  |  Link
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interesting, i have had bad experiences with verbatim and maxell (especially maxell) but over 300 burns with ritek and 0 errors. Odd, everyone is different i guess.

I never burn faster than 2x

as for labels.. never ever use them,
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Old 18th January 2005, 17:05   #13  |  Link
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I guess it all depends. I've always had really good luck with Riteks. But I got a spool of 25 a few months ago that were terrible. Generally speaking, though, IMHO they all seem to be roughly equal (branded and unbranded). They all kick out a few clinkers every now and then.
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Old 18th January 2005, 17:49   #14  |  Link
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The problems that he experiences all went away when I started using Tayio Yuden white printables. SVP.co.uk carries genuine TYs. I never will go back to Ritek since I burned my first 100 TY's. Further stickers on a DVD are absolute murder. Played fine in the player before sticking them on, after massive pixelation.

Get yourself 100 Ty's, printable buy an Epson printer that prints directly onto the disks and youare set for some major production.
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Old 18th January 2005, 18:34   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdobbs ...I've always had really good luck with Riteks.
I've had good luck with the 4X Riteks as well, but the 8X ones are laughably bad. I'm most of the way through a 50-piece "cake box" (3 left) of the 8X ones, of which:
- 24 were refused by my DVD writer ("power calibration error")
- 6 were not refused but the burn failed partway through
- 2 appeared to be good burns but post-burn validation failed
DVD drive is a Pioneer 8X (standard Pioneer firmware, latest available from their website), software is Nero 6.3.1.15.

The two DVDs that I've had fail after originally playing OK, were Beall 4X media, though - although I'm not totally sure they were totally OK in the first place as I'd made these before I got in the habit of doing a verify on a different DVD drive...

On the other hand, I've used 200+ of the 4X Ritek media (mostly data backup, but bits are bits, right?) with only two or three total that have failed verification - and not a single one refused by the burner.

I'm a little nerved out by the Beall failures as I'd been using these to back up Exchange databases for a couple of law offices. I'd hate to have them need something from offsite storage from a couple of years back and for it to be unavailable because of this. I've done a random test (about every 10th one or so) and I haven't found any failures, but still...

BTW, It took me a bit to figure out what Pioneer meant by "power calibration error" - AFAICT (after a web search) it means that the burner has tried to write in a "scratch" area, and when it tried to read back what it wrote there was a miss-match. I'm assuming that this means that these refused disks are now no good, but who knows. If you're in the Boston area and want 'em, drop me a line and you can come and get 'em - otherwise they'll just remain, in a cake box as a reminder of what not to buy next time...
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Old 18th January 2005, 18:38   #16  |  Link
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Hmmm... I've never actually tried the 8x Riteks yet. I've been using 4x for a long time. I did pick up some 8x discs locally (BJ Wholesale, CMC I thing) and they seem to work well.
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Old 18th January 2005, 21:44   #17  |  Link
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There are a tread or two both here and other places about major problems with newer BeAll discs (Samsung).
Acording to some, they can start to go "bad" after just a few days.
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Old 18th January 2005, 23:06   #18  |  Link
goretusk
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hmmm, well that gives me a lot to think about it. I've been really happy with the Riteks though, I've never made a coaster with any of them. And I've burned probably 300 of them. Seriously, unless it was operator error, not ONE single coaster. I guess I can stop with the paper labels....as far as buying media like TY, I can try it...the stuff that I see is no more expensive than the Ritek anyway...Can someone give me model numbers so that I know what is genuine TY?

I see:

DVD-R47ZZSB8 - 8x, for .47 - .49 each
DVD-R47WPT600SK - 8x, for .83 each (these are printable)
DVD-R47WPP600SK - 8x, for .68 each (these are also printable)

Any suggestions?

Buying the printable ones defeats the purpose of doing the backups in the first place, I mean..$83 for 100 DVD-R? That's twice as much as the riteks...
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Old 19th January 2005, 08:11   #19  |  Link
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@NobbyNobbs
BeAll 4x dvd-r was horrible media, i got this 'start to go "bad" after just a few days' experienced with 500 BeAll 4x dvd-r order from meritline fews month ago, still got hundred left now and will not 'touch' it anymore, there are nightmare.
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Old 19th January 2005, 14:44   #20  |  Link
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By "start to go bad" do you mean unreadable sections when you try to read in a DVD reader (on a PC or Mac) - or do you mean problems in a set-top DVD player?
I've a bunch of recorded-on Beall 4x disks, but they're mostly computer data. The ones I've tested I can still read completely in a DVD reader (just copying all data to a hard drive "temp" directory to test). Or is this mostly a problem with very recent Beall disks - I switched to Ritek 4x 9 months or a year ago...(?)
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