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5th June 2011, 23:19 | #7941 | Link | |
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It seems the old TN panel in my PC monitor isn't so bad after all, since noise is clearly visible as soon as I switch to 7-bit. Last edited by e-t172; 5th June 2011 at 23:24. |
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5th June 2011, 23:22 | #7942 | Link |
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Thx for the new version.
I had a few bugs disappear since i upgraded to 0.62. They were not in the changelog thou. Am I correct in assuming that not every optimization and bugfix to existing feateres is in the changelog but only actual changes like new feateres and options? Also are there any optimizations I can make to the new display properties settings in madvr? I do not know the calibration or bitdepth of my tv thou I have looked throu any documentation I could find. |
5th June 2011, 23:24 | #7943 | Link |
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No problem with this new version for now. I can't say if something was improved. I'm just able to detect things like tearing, or major frame drops (and there are none).
But now, I can clearly say that I'm totally lost with all these options (no problem if it helps others). I'll stay with default settings. |
6th June 2011, 01:24 | #7944 | Link |
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I see it, too. Immediately noticed flesh tones looked more natural and then watched the scene where Bruce is climbing the mountain to meet with Raz Algul (sp?) and the League of Shadows and the landscape's muted colors still looked muted (as they should), but colors on certain objects, such as clothing and most notably the "blue flower" really pop.
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6th June 2011, 01:42 | #7945 | Link | |
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But seriously... Do you have any incompatibility problems or theoretical technical concerns (*) with the 10-bit output? Or why does it has so low priority in your list? (I would guess I won't see it in this year.) * I have one. I think no VGA can output real 10-bit through HDMI but DisplayPort only, and the measured 10-bit precision with the new Redeons is the same thing what you can measure with single link DVI -> dithering (after the VGA LUT). At least I never heard about anybody who use (or even successfully tested) 10-bit output with MPC-HC and a Geforce card through HDMI connection. But I am not sure because Fermi theoretically supports DeepColor on paper, so... |
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6th June 2011, 04:52 | #7946 | Link |
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How have you tested? My 5770 outputs 10-bit RGB via HDMI and the GTX460, 12-bit, according to my display (reported as 30 and 36-bit), but I have no way to tell if there's a practical advantage at all, or if madVR can take advantage of it. I'm thinking I'm gonna test madVR's 10-bit output, and if it gives me more banding than 8-bit (due to less dither, 1/4 if I understood what madshi said above and I'm not mistaken), then I guess it's not real 10-bit.
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6th June 2011, 06:18 | #7947 | Link |
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I need some clarifications on a couple things since I'm confused how the new setting dialog interacts with shaders, 3dluts, and yCMS.
Properties primaries/gamut - Since it's very rare for any display without a hardware lut to have a perfect gamut, what should this be set to? To maintain accuracy without a 3dlut should I pick the closest option or 'Something Else'? What does madVR do (not do?) when 'Something Else' is selected? Does this setting do anything when using a 3DLUT? gamma/transfer - I calibrate my gamma to an ambient light scaled REC.709 curve with Argyll CMS, and as I've learned this doesn't match how yCMS or Janos666's MPC-HC-mod calculates it, so I doubt it matched madVR shaders either... To maintain accuracy without a 3dlut should I pick the closest option or 'Something Else'? What does madVR do (not do?) when 'Something Else' is selected? Does this setting do anything when using a 3DLUT? Calibration & Color & Gamma Color & Gamma appears to be some sort of Output Gamma setting? So if you are doing gamma correction in a 3dlut with something like grayscale measurements & gamma_curve, or don't want any gamma correction at all, madVR is forcing you to change it? I don't want anything to touch the gamma I may or may not have specified in a 3dlut, so this is a major problem for me. Bug: The Color & Gamma section should not be used by default when using a 3dlut. Gamma corrections should be done with the 3dlut (if needed) when one is used. Currently madVR uses shaders on-top for the 3dlut. An 'Native' gamma option is needed to disable madVR's gamma modifications when using a 3dlut. Bug: When 'using yCMS' is selected, clicking edit in the yCMS tab doesn't load the template from the Color & Gamma sections. Same issue in both sections with the grayscale edit button. Related question: Does madVR only accept yCMS settings separated by commas or can spaces be used like a normal yCMS config file? Bug: Somehow the Calibration tab appeared in Color & Gamut section. Previously there was only a yCMS tab. Bug: madVR shouldn't be creating 3dluts with Output_Transfer_Function set (currently always set to 1.0 0.0 0.45454545454545454545454545454545 0.0) since you are using yCMS presets. Do you have a reason for doing this? Will madVR misbehave is fed a 3dlut using the yCMS defaults for yRGB (no Output_Transfer_Function specified)? Bug: madVR sets both input and output levels to RGB_Video (16-235) instead of RGB_PC (0-255). This will cause full-range videos to get clipped. Since you are using shaders for TV->PC conversion, madVR would need two luts (Video->Video & PC->PC) to workaround this issue and support full-range videos. Feature Request: Option to have madVR create a 3DLUT with an external yCMS config file and set the lut as the external 3DLUT after creation. Hopefully you add an option to disable all these forced gamma corrections in madVR 0.63. Until that happens, I guess I'm stuck using madVR 0.61. You've made things overly complex for something which should be very simple. I would like to see input settings grouped with their corresponding output settings, with an option to disable all this forced behavior and use defaults with identical behavior (taking yRGB into account) to versions prior to 0.62. Otherwise, you need to write some detailed documentation on what all these new settings do, and how they are related. |
6th June 2011, 06:47 | #7948 | Link | |
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My guess is that what you're seeing is probably a side-effect of the scaling changes madshi did, resulting in smoother chroma even on nearest neighbour.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
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6th June 2011, 07:32 | #7949 | Link | |
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It's my understanding that the new feature scales chroma to the luma resolution using your selected chroma algorithm, and then both are scaled to your display resolution using the selected luma algorithm. MadVR 0.12 (went back to it to get a direct comparison when testing, but anything below 0.62 is the same) MadVR 0.62: This is with MadVR set to Nearest Neighbour on both. |
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6th June 2011, 07:47 | #7950 | Link | ||
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My card can do 59i, it does work OK for 29/30p or 59/60i content, just not for 59/60p. Also, 59i is my default setting so my PC is more often than not at that rate (named 29i or 30i in CCC). I tried quickly with the Interframe sample video here, but it also was happening with an interpolation avisynth script when madVR was being fed 60p. Last edited by Andy o; 6th June 2011 at 07:50. |
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6th June 2011, 09:41 | #7951 | Link | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Because a day has only 24 hours. And because adding 10bit output is not at the top of my priority list. Quote:
If you do not use a 3dlut, you should set this option to the closest match. The value "Something Else" means that madVR disables gamut correction, if no 3dlut is used. Quote:
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The one standard 3dlut file created by madVR v0.62 defaults to a "Gamma_Curve" of a 2.2 pure power curve, which is also the default setting in the "color & gamma" settings page. If you want to achieve a different gamma curve, you can realize that by changing the "color & gamma" settings. Having the "color & gamma" settings set to the default values means that madVR is not doing any gamma processing at all. Or in other words: v0.62 uses the 3dlut only to correct display faults. It does not use the 3dlut, anymore, to achieve specific gamma curves / values. So basically the yCMS command "Gamma_Curve" is what you can configure now in the "color & gamut" madVR settings page. This is done via shader math now, though. The purpose of this change is higher usability, because you only need one 3dlut, anymore, and you can switch "Gamma_Curve" on the fly, without delay. Quote:
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(1) They might have a meter and want to use yCMS. (2) They might have a meter and use a different 3dlut creator. (3) They might have no meter, but have their displays calibrated by an ISF calibrator to e.g. BT.709. (4) They might have a display which is known to be mostly BT.709 calibrated out of the box. (5) They might have a display with an unknown calibration. I need to support all of that. And I want to offer all of these users the option to use both gamut correction (so both DVDs and Blu-Rays are shown with correct colors) and gamma adjustments (to match the ambient light level, or to match movies with a weird encoding). If I would only have to take care of one of those 5 groups mentioned above, the settings dialog would be easier. But I don't really feel like creating 5 different versions of the settings dialog, either. So I have to find a solution which works for everyone. Of course it's going to be somewhat complicated. So help me optimize it. I'm open for suggestions. My logic behind all this is that there are some settings which should be setup once and then never touched again ("properties" and "calibration") and there are other settings which users may want to tweak depending on ambient light level or movie ("color & gamma"). I think these settings should be separated into different tabs. Because of that I cannot put "input and output settings" into one tab, as you suggest. |
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6th June 2011, 10:26 | #7952 | Link | |
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Maybe things are going wrong because of "59i" vs "29i". It's really the same thing, but maybe there's a misunderstanding between madVR and Windows because of that. |
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6th June 2011, 10:31 | #7953 | Link |
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I'll get you a log in a few mins. I'm not sure I explained myself very clearly so just to clear it up, madVR does change to 1080i59 when using 29/30p or 59/60i. So, madVR can tell Windows to switch just fine, it just doesn't seem to know to do it when getting 59/60p. And for some reason it switches to 24p if the 1080p24 option is also set.
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6th June 2011, 10:46 | #7954 | Link |
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OK here's the log. My refresh rate was at 50Hz, and when playing that interframe 60p sample, it switched to 1080p24, instead of 1080i59.
http://www.filesonic.com/file/114155...log_50to24.zip |
6th June 2011, 11:24 | #7957 | Link |
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Don't understand, though, why madVR does not switch to 1080i59 for you, if that's the *only* mode you're listing in the madVR option. That *must* work. Can you really reproduce that? If so, please create a log for that situation, too. Thx.
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6th June 2011, 11:44 | #7958 | Link |
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Is it intended that all the options under devices->Mymonitor (display calibration, gamma, levels, etc.) affect RGB32 video as they do now? If so, what's the reason behind this behaviour? What should I do to get untouched RGB32 output?
BTW, congrats on finally making your renderer a video renderer, instead of a YV12 renderer |
6th June 2011, 11:52 | #7959 | Link |
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OK, here's the log for that situation. madVR just doesn't switch.
http://www.filesonic.com/file/114189...adVR_-_log.zip BTW, it's not a huge problem personally cause I don't have a lot of 60p content. Also, since you're tweaking the logic, is it possible for madVR, if 1080i59/60 and 1080p59/60 both are present, to switch 59i/60i content to 1080i instead of 1080p? My display will only apply auto IVTC up to 1080i. |
6th June 2011, 13:12 | #7960 | Link | |
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It does make me want to wait until this is fixed, to verify that the Cyberlink DVD Decoder is still sending YV12/NV12 before spending a lot of time on it. (neither ffdshow nor LAV CUVID/splitter work with DVD) |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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