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Old 2nd August 2018, 19:04   #821  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Originally Posted by MoSal View Post
It is. It's not even compatible with the final AV1 spec yet (getting close). And some encoding tools are not implemented or optimized for quality yet.
No encoding tools are well optimized for quality yet! HEVC is several years older and is still seeing substantial year-on-year perceptual quality improvements. I'm estimating we're 1+ year away from a "reasonably good" AV1 encoder, based on past encoder development.

For example, all the strobing concerns mentioned above. That's not an issue in the bitstream format at all, just about encoder implementation. It'll get addressed with better psychovisual tuning via adaptive quantization.

FWIW, my read on Golden Frames is that it started as an alternative way to get some of the advantages of b-frames and multiple reference frames while staying clear of IP around those technologies.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 19:57   #822  |  Link
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No encoding tools are well optimized for quality yet!
What I meant was, they are not finished with rudimentary implementations of the basic tools necessary to produce a compatible bitstream yet. There are a lot of things to do before they can even start caring about competitive quality.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 22:42   #823  |  Link
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No encoding tools are well optimized for quality yet!
Right, but there is --tune=psychovisual option already, which enables optimizations that improve visual and hurt metrics (using cdef-dist for RDO), but this was already implemented for libaom.

OTOH it doesn't even have inter prediction yet, which is the reason it performs so badly.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:15   #824  |  Link
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Chrome 69 Beta has been released with support for decoding AV1.
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:06   #825  |  Link
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Chrome 69 Beta has been released with support for decoding AV1.
Firefox 63 as well.
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Old 4th August 2018, 20:34   #826  |  Link
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I believe someone explained before that the golden frame was kept consciously, and that it's no is not only not a disadvantage, but on the contrary it allows to do some stuff that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Golden frame was the goto thing they could point at when they wanted to pretend VP8/9/... is a result of an extensive independent research and novel ideas of On2's and not just a crippled H.264/HEVC copy with some arbitrary changes and mangling made so that it is harder to sue. When your competitor makes everything in the open and drafts are available years in advance...
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Old 5th August 2018, 07:55   #827  |  Link
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Golden frame was the goto thing they could point at when they wanted to pretend VP8/9/... is a result of an extensive independent research and novel ideas of On2's and not just a crippled H.264/HEVC copy with some arbitrary changes and mangling made so that it is harder to sue. When your competitor makes everything in the open and drafts are available years in advance...
Live by the patent, die by the patent.

If your entire business model is based on the public granting you property rights over a specific bit of mathematics in return for publishing the exact limits of your property, it's a little bit churlish to complain that the public makes use of that information. If that deal didn't suit then they shouldn't have taken it.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:04   #828  |  Link
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I don't buy the "it's only math" as an argument that video compression technology is simple and should not be patentable.

Everything is obvious in hindsight/to laymen, but to get to that hindsight situation is the hard part. MPEG/VCEG circles brought amazing video technology forward, if you recall how bad the codecs were say in 2004 (and those were already things brought forward by them and those were already great progress above truly stone age tech).

As in many fields and situations, people take all good things for granted, ignore their value and endlessly bitch about some trifling small details they find on them to complain about. (Yes, the neverending rants about licensing and royalty-free/encumberedness broken record, I consider that unimportant in the overall scope of video compression progress - to be clear.)

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Old 7th August 2018, 07:44   #829  |  Link
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I don't buy the "it's only math" as an argument that video compression technology is simple and should not be patentable.

Everything is obvious in hindsight/to laymen, but to get to that hindsight situation is the hard part. MPEG/VCEG circles brought amazing video technology forward, if you recall how bad the codecs were say in 2004 (and those were already things brought forward by them and those were already great progress above truly stone age tech).

As in many fields and situations, people take all good things for granted, ignore their value and endlessly bitch about some trifling small details they find on them to complain about. (Yes, the neverending rants about licensing and royalty-free/encumberedness broken record, I consider that unimportant in the overall scope of video compression progress - to be clear.)
Nothing should be patentable. You can't own a mental concept, you can't be dispossessed from it either.
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Old 8th August 2018, 00:53   #830  |  Link
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Let's not go down this rabbit hole, please Let's keep discussion on AV1.
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Old 8th August 2018, 23:34   #831  |  Link
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I apologize for an offtopic.
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Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
if you recall how bad the codecs were say in 2004
Ateme H.264 encoder was already state of the art with an excelent physocvisual model in 2004. It took x264 some long time to reach that quality.

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Old 9th August 2018, 15:03   #832  |  Link
LigH
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New upload:

AOM v1.0.0-359-g1bc580401 (MSYS2; MinGW32: GCC 7.3.0 / MinGW64: GCC 8.2.0)
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Old 9th August 2018, 16:56   #833  |  Link
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The latest build crashes at the third frame in each attempt, no matter what settings i try. Anyone else have this happening? The 32 bit version works fine, so i dont know if it's because some bug in the code, or because of the new GCC.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:36   #834  |  Link
LigH
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Confirming on an AMD FX-6300. First pass passes; second pass gives an APPCRASH: Exception at 0x00000000004D3B68 in aomenc.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation while reading at address 0x0000000000000000

A kind of "over-optimization" bug in GCC 8.2.0 is quite probable, IMHO. I wonder where to discuss it best. Will use the good old IRC for a while.
_

P.S.: There is a channel #aomedia on Freenode; I wonder why it is missing in the server's channel list, though... — Probably to avoid spam bots.
_

P.P.S.: It's probably an issue with the auto-vectorization. Let's see whether Alexpux can downgrade or upgrade GCC in MSYS2...
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Last edited by LigH; 12th August 2018 at 19:36.
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Old 12th August 2018, 19:35   #835  |  Link
LigH
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The issue has been analyzed down to a disassembly proving that Tree SLP Vectorization may produce undesired unaligned memory access, causing a segmentation fault.

There is a temporary patch proposed which rearranges some code to avoid this misalignment. Furthermore, I tried to notify the GCC developers of this issue. So until GCC 8 got fixed, aomedia may try to circumvent it sooner.
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