madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Stereodude]

How long are you waiting? It takes a few seconds to switch back to FSE.

[huhn]

it would be "D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)" if he doesn't wait.

[Qaq]

Originally Posted by rivera

Why it is not "10 bit"?

Because desktop has no Aero anymore? Can't say why though.

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by rivera

I am a newbie.
Tried to output 10-bit by using madVR as it is described here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

My config is:
- Z170-A (Intel HD Graphics 530);
- Win7x64
- madVR v0.90.17;
- latest MPC-HC;
- Panasonic PR65VT60 (not calibrated professionally).

I am not gonna describe things regarding 10-bit output since there is a special thread for this.
But I found this rather strange behavior:
1) First I made these settings for 10-bit output (acc. to the thread mentioned above):
display->properties->10bit
display->calibration->disable & disable GPU gamma ramp.
rendering-> general-> Direct3D 11 ON
rendering->dithering->none
rendering->general->automatic exclusive fullscreen mode (FSE)-> on
2) Opened some video in the pleer.
3) There is a text in madVR OSD "fullscreen exclusive (10 bit)".
4) If I leave fullscreen with "Alt-Enter" and go to fullscreen again, then in madVR OSD there is a text "fullscreen exclusive (8 bit)".
Why it is not "10 bit"?

Man don t lost tour time trying 10bit because Intel drivers don't output 10bit so tour data is converted to 8bit by Intel gpu, also don t turn of dithering because you lose information... The instrution to turn off dithering is only to test if your screen suports 10bit

[arrgh]

Originally Posted by RenderGuy2

...problem I seem to have is that subtitles are not rendered with depth...

I have the same Problem with mvc-mkv...I tried xysubfilter but also the MPC-BE internal filters. Both times, with "Stereoskopic Subtitles disabled" and enabled as "side by side" I get the Subs in the Display plane...

the Subs are stored in the mkv as DVD-sub.
There seems not to be an Option (in MPC-BE, madVR or xysubfilter) to adjust the depth of the Subs...

I would be ok with an user-adjusted Option...I'm not talking about the "original Settings in the mpls"...

Thanks

Edit : I'm on Win8.1x64, MPC-BE from Shark007 with madVR and his standard codecs)

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by rivera

I am a newbie.
Tried to output 10-bit by using madVR as it is described here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

My config is:
- Z170-A (Intel HD Graphics 530);
- Win7x64
- madVR v0.90.17;
- latest MPC-HC;
- Panasonic PR65VT60 (not calibrated professionally).

I am not gonna describe things regarding 10-bit output since there is a special thread for this.
But I found this rather strange behavior:
1) First I made these settings for 10-bit output (acc. to the thread mentioned above):
display->properties->10bit
display->calibration->disable & disable GPU gamma ramp.
rendering-> general-> Direct3D 11 ON
rendering->dithering->none
rendering->general->automatic exclusive fullscreen mode (FSE)-> on
2) Opened some video in the pleer.
3) There is a text in madVR OSD "fullscreen exclusive (10 bit)".
4) If I leave fullscreen with "Alt-Enter" and go to fullscreen again, then in madVR OSD there is a text "fullscreen exclusive (8 bit)".
Why it is not "10 bit"?

Try the noob guide in my signature. It won't advance your cause of getting 4:4:4 10-bit output (which may require chroma subsampling on a Panasonic plasma; I can't remember). But it will explain what each setting is supposed to do so you can make your own decision. You are turning some things off that should be left on.

[seiyafan]

I am still on ver. 13.251 for 270x, has there been any performance improvement in any of the later drivers?

[QBhd]

Originally Posted by seiyafan

I am still on ver. 13.251 for 270x, has there been any performance improvement in any of the later drivers?

I think performance still drops a little on the latest crimson drivers, but they are significantly faster than the last few catalyst drivers (fast enough that when they came out, I did not have to downgrade any of my settings at the time).

However, there is one feature of the new crimson drivers that makes the drop worth while... The custom resolutions. When I created custom resolutions with CRU or any other way, the 72 Hz resolution would always disappear upon reboot (only being enabled when making a driver level change such as Underscan/overscan or disabling/enabling the monitor driver among other tricks). Now, with the Crimson Custom Resolutions, there is no need for jumping through such hoops to ensure I have my 60, 72 and 75 Hz resolutions at all times.

So grab the latest Crimson Drivers, if you don't like them... just roll back, it's not rocket science.

QB

[chros]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

Man don t lost tour time trying 10bit because Intel drivers don't output 10bit so tour data is converted to 8bit by Intel gpu, ...

That's not true, mine can.

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by chros

That's not true, mine can.

thats new! can you tell me how ? i searched a lot on internet but only find people afirmig that nots capable...
on my old laptop on nvidia cp had the option to 8 or 12 bit... but on my nw laptop on intel cp don´t have nothing...

[chros]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

thats new! can you tell me how ? i searched a lot on internet but only find people afirmig that nots capable...
on my old laptop on nvidia cp had the option to 8 or 12 bit... but on my nw laptop on intel cp don´t have nothing...

1. Intel doesn't provide a setting on their UI. The HDMI standard called DeepColor. There's a registry entry called "DeepColorHDMIDisable" which should be 0 and that means this feature is enabled by default (note that every display on your system has its own separate settings).

2. Intel uses Limited range output by default. You can use madLevelsTweaker utility (in madv folder) to easily set to Full range (via "EnableRGBFullRange" registry entry), which is suggested if your display device is capable to process this.
Here also you can see the full registry path for your current display.
I don't know whether this affects 10 bit output, probably it depends on your hardware/software chain. (E.g. I got crushed black with Limited range on my TV, now all good with Full range.)

3. There's another setting on the UI called "IT content" (it can modify chrome subsampling on your display device). Unfortunately it stopped working for me a half a year ago (I don't know what changed in my chain, it worked 1 year ago).

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by chros

1. Intel doesn't provide a setting on their UI. The HDMI standard called DeepColor. There's a registry entry called "DeepColorHDMIDisable" which should be 0 and that means this feature is enabled by default (note that every display on your system has its own separate settings).

2. Intel uses Limited range output by default. You can use madLevelsTweaker utility (in madv folder) to easily set to Full range (via "EnableRGBFullRange" registry entry), which is suggested if your display device is capable to process this.
Here also you can see the full registry path for your current display.
I don't know whether this affects 10 bit output, probably it depends on your hardware/software chain. (E.g. I got crushed black with Limited range on my TV, now all good with Full range.)

3. There's another setting on the UI called "IT content" (it can modify chrome subsampling on your display device). Unfortunately it stopped working for me a half a year ago (I don't know what changed in my chain, it worked 1 year ago).

Thanks for explained... I will try this

I searched a lot abou this it content option... But did not find anything... What this option does?

[Queiroz]

Originally Posted by austonrush

Turn off NNEDI3 for image doubling and use superxbr 100 or superxbr antibloat 25. I'm pretty sure your video card is maxed out and cannot handle doubling with NNEDI3.

Thanks brother. You're right.

I think my video card couldn't handle NNEDI3.. everything is working just fine with superxbr 100 now.

[Manni]

@Madshi:

Sorry it took me a while to do more tests regarding the crash on first play, but I've been very busy with work.
I finally had a chance to spend a few hours trying to debug this, and here are the results.
My current config:
Win 8.1 Pro x64 with MCE
ADM 7870 With Crimson 16.4.1 (same issue with all Crimson drivers)
Latest MPC-BE x64 nightly, MadVR and LAV x64 beta

Problem: player crashes at launch (MPB-BE has stopped working) on first playback after a reboot. Playing the same file right after the initial crash (or any other file) works fine.
Once the first crash has occurred, playing the same file (or any other file) with a different player works fine.
There is no crash if EVR or EVR-CP is selected instead of MadVR.

I've tried the following:

Revert to Catalyst 14.12 (last stable catalyst for my GPU): same issue (rules out Crimson)
MPC-HC x64 instead or MPC-BE: same issue (rules out MPC-BE)
MPC-BE x86 instead of MPC-BE x64: same issue (rules out x64)
Using FSE mode: same issue (rules out non FSE mode)
Disabling the use D3D11 path: same issue (rules out D3D11 path)
Playing with the general settings in the rendering options (delay playback, disable desktop composition, use a separate device for presentation): same issue
Trying to launch MPC-BE and MPC-HC directly, without using MyMovies to select the film: same issue (rules out MyMovies)

I'm running out of idea, but it looks like this clearly establishes that the issue lies with MadVR as it's not the GPU driver, nor the player, nor MyMovies.

I'm going to try to go back to older MadVR versions, as this is not a problem I used to have, but I had already tried to go back as far as 0.89.x and the problem was still there, so not sure how much further I should go. What is the oldest version of MadVR that will still work with the current option/registry and won't mess up my configuration?

In case it matters, I was always trying to play the same film, a bluray at 23p (BDMV folder), but I have the same issue with any movie (well, at least BD folder) so it's not movie specific.

[madshi]

I'll reply to all your comments when I find some time.

For now I just wanted to post a little image comparison which shows why I like anti-bloating for SSIM downscaling. The benefit of anti-bloating may be limited to very large downscaling factors, I'm not sure, and of course whether you want to use it or not is fully your choice. For this image comparison I've disabled the anti-ringing filter for the conventional downscaling algorithms, to make their results appear as sharp as possible (anti-ringing makes the images look slightly softer).

Anyway, here goes:

Please make sure that your browser doesn't zoom these images.

chimei inn 4K video sample:
original - | - Catmull-Rom - | - Jinc - | - Lanczos4 - | - Bicubic150 - | - SSIM-100 - | - SSIM-100 with Anti-Bloating

windmill photo:
original - | - Catmull-Rom - | - Jinc - | - Lanczos4 - | - Bicubic150 - | - SSIM-100 - | - SSIM-100 with Anti-Bloating

(Thanks to Bart van der Wolf for the permission to use his image.)

[Thunderbolt8]

a general thing, imho it would make most sense to put most emphasis (--> what gets implemented or set as default) on the effects scaling has with the most common resolutions used for scaling (which would be imho 720p --> 1080p upscaling, maybe still DVD --> 1080p upscaling and 4k --> 1080p downscaling in the future). so even if lets say SSIM anti bloating might work very well when used to downscaling from 4k to 960x540, determining whether it gets implemented or set as default should still be decided based on the results of the most common scaling resolutions.

[har3inger]

Which kernel are you using for those SSIM shots? Bicubic or jinc? Also, thanks for the comparisons.

I gotta agree with you. At a glance, AB makes things closer to what they should look like, especially for the windmill bricks. Also, at least compared to bicubic 150, even with AB, SSIM is sharper. However, for the food pic, it's little harder to say that SSIM without AB is absolutely ruining the image. If I pixel peep, the table cloth pattern tends to jump too far forward, but at a distance, no AB looks better.

I think it depends a lot on view distance to decide if SSIM AB is better. Without AB, you definitely spoof a higher-res image with sharper/higher frequency features, and the inaccuracy isn't as bad or apparent at longer distances. This sharpening effect is probably better/more accurate than anything you could accomplish with adaptivesharpen or the likes. I'd say keep AB as an option for the user to decide on for SSIM (maybe labeled as "accurate" vs "sharp")

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'll reply to all your comments when I find some time.

For now I just wanted to post a little image comparison which shows why I like anti-bloating for SSIM downscaling. The benefit of anti-bloating may be limited to very large downscaling factors, I'm not sure, and of course whether you want to use it or not is fully your choice. For this image comparison I've disabled the anti-ringing filter for the conventional downscaling algorithms, to make their results appear as sharp as possible (anti-ringing makes the images look slightly softer).

Anyway, here goes:

Please make sure that your browser doesn't zoom these images.

chimei inn 4K video sample:
original - | - Catmull-Rom - | - Jinc - | - Lanczos4 - | - Bicubic150 - | - SSIM-100 - | - SSIM-100 with Anti-Bloating

windmill photo:
original - | - Catmull-Rom - | - Jinc - | - Lanczos4 - | - Bicubic150 - | - SSIM-100 - | - SSIM-100 with Anti-Bloating

(Thanks to Bart van der Wolf for the permission to use his image.)

I agree that anti-bloating is effective, but I'm not sure if removing the sharper SSIM is good or bad. Bicubic150 is not even close to as sharp. SSIM without AB might be preferable to users who want a really sharp image. Still, the less unnecessary options, the better. Most users will tick every checkbox available thinking it makes things look better.

All of a sudden I can't play any video files and when I try, I get madVR error: "Getting Display Mode failed"... What does that mean?

[chros]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

I searched a lot abou this it content option... But did not find anything... What this option does?

Only Intel and God knows
Its reg entry for It Content is "MP_ITContent_3060300" but it doesn't do anything for me (but it did in the past).
According to this post it's advised to enable it: "This turns off any processing within the Intel display driver."
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/201...o-with-a-htpc/
Does it change anything for you when tick/untick it?