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Old 31st December 2003, 09:47   #1  |  Link
ungeraynrand
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Drumrolls please...........

Quote:
Finally, XviD is my winner this time. It came in first in both Matrix and SPR test, and second in Futurama. Also, for the first time in a long testing series, there were no glitches and no problems in the encoding setup (I never had to redo a single encoding session).
Wow. Xvid is truly great. It's an abomination that Divx5 is so popular yet an inferior product (cost money too).
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Old 31st December 2003, 09:57   #2  |  Link
Morbo
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Cheers to Koepi and CO.....!!!!

Although we all cant help but be slightly biased by K,he is such an inventive and resourceful chap

Happy Ney Year and may the codecs be with you!
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Old 31st December 2003, 10:17   #3  |  Link
MoFoQ
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a better reason to bust out the booze...than just for the sake of drinking it....

wonder what the settings were.....
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Old 31st December 2003, 12:12   #4  |  Link
bilu
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoFoQ
wonder what the settings were.....
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/codecs-203-1.htm

Quote:
Codec settings (applied w.r.t. to the default codec settings)

* 3ivX: For Matrix I used H.263 quantizer and QPel motion estimation. For the other two I've used MPEG quantizer.
* SBC: I've used the GKnot defaults (no anti-shit).
* DivX5: Slow mode, slow psy settings and no profile (b-frames are enabled though)
* ffvfw: Macroblock decision rate: distorted, 4 motion vectors enabled, trellis quantization enabled, subpel ME compare: SATD, fullpel ME compare: SATD, and one consecutive B-frame. For two pass encoding I did the following: constant quantizer (q=2) for the first pass writing the logfile, and CBR during the 2nd pass (selecting Use logfile in the output configuration)
* ND: Best quality 2 pass encoding, MV range: -128 to 127.5, psychovisual high, H.263 quantization, halfpel, spatial prediction, PVOP, unrestricted MV and BVOP (B-frames)
* RV9: Very High EQH and a max bitrate that is 5 times the average bitrate. I used 5.1ch audio at 128kbit/s to be comparable to the other codecs.
* VP6: VP61 Advanced Profile, force keyframe every 99999, Local File playback, Undershoot 90%, Adjust quantizer checked, Min quantizer: 2, Max quantizer: 62. For the 2nd pass: Variability: 70, Min section: 40, Max section: 400.
* XviD: SPR: QPel, Trellis quantization & MPEG quantization. For Futurama I additionally used the cartoon mode and disabled B-frames. Matrix: QPel, 1 b-frame, VHQ1, chroma motion, Trellis quantization and the HVS Good Picture matrix.
I wonder why XVID is the only codec with settings optimized per film in this review. Maybe other developers didn't care that much? Or was it Doom9?

EDIT: The answer is:
Quote:
Last but not least: In order to present each codec the best way possible, I contacted each codec maker 2 weeks prior to the start of encoding to give them a chance to suggest the best settings for the movies used in this test.
Best regards,
Bilu

Last edited by bilu; 31st December 2003 at 12:37.
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Old 31st December 2003, 13:25   #5  |  Link
Doom9
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Maybe other developers didn't care that much? Or was it Doom9?
Don't you dare to accuse me of anything. The settings came all from the developers, from 3 to X (3ivX to XviD). Every developer is free to submit 3 different settings no matter how complex they are.. I'll use them.
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Old 31st December 2003, 13:36   #6  |  Link
bilu
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I didn't, and have found the answer myself as you can see in the edited part. It was a pretty legitimate question that needed to be answered, and answered it is.

You have the most professional approach to advanced video codecs benchmarking and codec manufacturers know that. I know that for ages as well. But it made sense to ask that question since the XVID guys work very intimately with this forum community as you know. I didn't knew if all teams knew what were the films, but the answer was there.

Thank you for your hard work. I hope you continue this tradition over the next years


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Old 31st December 2003, 15:52   #7  |  Link
snowcrash
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Nevermind. Congratulations to XVID.

Last edited by snowcrash; 31st December 2003 at 15:56.
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Old 31st December 2003, 22:30   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by ungeraynrand
It's an abomination that Divx5 is so popular yet an inferior product (cost money too).
DivX5 definitely isn't an "inferior product". It gives comparable quality to XviD, is considerably easier to use, and its features are extensively documented on the DivX website. Not hard to understand why it's so popular.

Quote:
Originally posted by Doom9
The settings came all from the developers, from 3 to X (3ivX to XviD). Every developer is free to submit 3 different settings no matter how complex they are.. I'll use them.
Yes, but you really didn't do much analysis of quality in relation to the settings used for each codec. I noticed the same thing happened with the last comparison: XviD was optimized for each movie. That's fine, but it wouldn't hurt to mention the differences when writing up your conclusions.
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Old 31st December 2003, 22:50   #9  |  Link
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It's DXN's fault. It's up to them to recommend different settings for the movies, which they didn't do. So if DivX5 could've done better with different settings, they should've been suggested by the creators. Doom9 gave the perfect chance for any customization, which they just didn't use. Is it necessary to mention that in the conclusion?
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Old 1st January 2004, 05:02   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bilu
I wonder why XVID is the only codec with settings optimized per film in this review. Maybe other developers didn't care that much? Or was it Doom9?
Oh I wondered about it too. Let me just tell you what I found out, soon after the comparison was published:

The settings were almost identical in both movies. Under "Matrix" Doom9 wrote "chroma motion, VHQ1" but they were concidered default (== also used) in SPR test. In the end, difference was number of b-frames (matrix 1, SPR 2) and quantization matrix.

Also the only difference between settings used and defaults is Qpel and Trellis quant.

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Old 1st January 2004, 05:16   #11  |  Link
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I should've been more accurate in the XviD settings department. The only thing I activated was QPel and trellis quant in both SPR and Matrix (and the quantizers were different... for Matrix I used a special matrix but I think using H.263 would've resulted in about the same results, and for SPR being a 2 CD flick I used MPEG quantizers). B-frames and the rest were really the same.. it's just that at the point I was given the settings there were no beta3 standards yet (because I used a prebeta build). But except for the quantizers (and switching off b-frames and qpel) the settings were all the same for each movie.

But yes, the XviD team has always been rather forthcoming and enthusiastic about those codec comparisons (even though they haven't always scored as well as last time), which might or might not have made an impact. But it's up to every codec maker how much time they want to invest into this.

I wouldn't call any codec inferior unless it really is a lot worse than the rest, so I'll leave it up to everybody to draw their own conclusions based on my comparison. You know my preference but your milage might differ.
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Old 1st January 2004, 14:47   #12  |  Link
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i always use XviD for my personnal encoding, i don't use any DivX5.X.X
so, I think XviD is better than DivX BUT....
"It's an abomination that Divx5 is so popular yet an inferior product (cost money too)."
It doesn't sound very fair to me.
Remember that Xvid is "Educationnal purposes only" while DivX have to pay mpeg-la patents.

Anyway, i think you mustn't denigrate someone's work by using a such rude word like "abomination", specially when you don't even have the skill to write a poor codec. (isn't this type of behavior an abomination ? )

BTW, congratulations to XviD developpers
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Old 2nd January 2004, 22:17   #13  |  Link
MoFoQ
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Quote:
Originally posted by bilu
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/codecs-203-1.htm

I wonder why XVID is the only codec with settings optimized per film in this review. Maybe other developers didn't care that much? Or was it Doom9?

EDIT: The answer is:


Best regards,
Bilu

no settings file? I'm so used to nandub...heheh...and I still stand by it....second choice is and has always been xvid...because it's opensource.
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Old 4th January 2004, 13:01   #14  |  Link
bilu
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Quote:
Originally posted by MoFoQ
no settings file? I'm so used to nandub...heheh...and I still stand by it....
You can have a file with registry settings, it's not that hard. I've made in a past a batch ripper based on it, search for R4R_ENC. Also Dolemite's DVX does the same(this one is a real program, not a batch file ).

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