Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
23rd March 2015, 11:41 | #1981 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,829
|
Quote:
Interlaced video consists of 29.970 frames per second but each frame consists of two fields, so you could think of it as 54.940 fields per second. One field is the even scanlines, the other is the odd scanlines. The object of de-interlacing is to merge the two fields into a single progressive frame, but because each field is a different moment in time they can't just be combined as such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video Telecine (3-2 pulldown) uses the interlaced nature of video to convert 23.976fps into 29.970fps by repeating fields but the film isn't interlaced as such and inverse telecine can be used to recover the original progressive frames. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down The problem is, NTSC can be a combination of "film" and "video", hence MeGUI's analysis sometimes seeing it as some sort of "hybrid" and you can't always assume MeGUI gets it right, so if in doubt it's best to post a sample. |
|
24th March 2015, 15:02 | #1982 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
Quote:
|
|
25th March 2015, 11:35 | #1983 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,829
|
What sort of issues with MT Avisynth?
Maybe you could try replacing the relevant plugins with the versions listed here if you're not using them already. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...50#post1699950 And while I don't use MT Avisynth myself, this version of MaskTools2 is the fastest of all the versions I've tried and it doesn't slow to a crawl if the source isn't mod16. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/MaskTools2 Quote:
I've been working on a video that's being more difficult than usual. The video quality is pretty high, but there's very fine grain in places. It's "moving" so fast it's virtually unnoticeable when watching the video at normal speed, but it's making it hard to re-encode at a reasonable bitrate. Unless I use a high bitrate the encoder turns the grain into "moving blocks" (for want of a better description) where the image is mostly a solid colour (a wall in the background etc) and that makes it noticeable. So far QTGMC's EzDenoise is resulting in some horrible banding so I've been experimenting with SMDegrain and at the moment SMDegrain followed by LSFMod (both default settings) seems to be working the best. It's doing a good job removing the noise and with LFSMod it looks a tad sharper than the original (I don't like sharpening as a rule). While I was playing around with this one I had a close look at what QTGMC was doing in places, and on occasion I found artefacts similar to those in the cartoon screenshots I posted earlier. Unlike the cartoon screenshots though, it'd be very unlikely you'd see them without pausing on individual frames and comparing them to the source (which I was doing) as they weren't as prominent and only seemed to occur where there was fast motion and a lot of contrast. I did discover though, the artefacts seemed to be reduced by using the medium speed preset rather than the default settings, so I'll have to experiment a bit more there. Mind you SMDGrain isn't perfect either. I found a few places where it had some adverse effects where there was motion, although once again nothing you'd see while the frames running at normal speed. |
|
26th March 2015, 02:21 | #1984 | Link | ||||
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now to check out LFSMod and compare it to QTGMC's built-in sharpener, Toon, and FastLineDarkener with regards to early seasons Simpsons... Last edited by LouieChuckyMerry; 26th March 2015 at 02:24. Reason: It's "background", not "back round" |
||||
26th March 2015, 11:21 | #1985 | Link | ||||
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,829
|
Quote:
Not this time because it's the first filter in the chain followed by cropping, resizing, a conversion to RGB and back to YV12 (so I could use RGBAdjust), and LSFMod, so there didn't seem to be much point given there's lots of 8 bit filtering following it. Adding GradFun3() to the end of the script seems to be fixing any banding problems. Quote:
These days my PC is connected to a 51" Plasma next to my desk so frame by frame comparisons do require a certain level of sedation. There's an identical TV in the living room and sometimes I walk in while someone's watching one of my encodes and I wonder why I was fussing about it so much. Adding an extra five feet to the viewing distance does more for video quality than most Avisynth filters I've used. Now you've got me motivated, I'll have to play around with SMDegrain's settings a bit more, once this lot of encoding is done. Quote:
All this talk of SMDegrain made me look at the script I'm using and I just discovered it's an old version. I don't know how that happened. Last time I cleaned out the Avisynth plugins folder and started again I must have accidentally copied the wrong version. Or maybe I didn't know there was a newer version at the time. Damn!!!!....... It's working well for the video I'm encoding at the moment but naturally I'm going to have to stop encoding when the current job finishes and run a comparison encode using the newer script to make sure the result won't be noticeably better. $@%$&!!! Edit: So I found this Dogway mod of the SMDegrain script and it appears LSFMod is built-in (the LSFMod script is still required, but SMDegrain can use it for sharpening). I've no idea if sharpening that way will produce a more exciting result than LSFMod as a separate filter. Something else to experiment with, I guess...... The old version of SMDegrain I was using appears not to have any built-in sharpening, hence my following it with LSFMod, but maybe for the Dogway mod version that won't be necessary. Which version are you using? The latest Dogway mod seems to be v2.21 but I'm having trouble finding a working download link (never mind, I found it). Quote:
Oh well, I'm off to run some comparison encodes using the newer scripts to see if exciting things will happen....... Last edited by hello_hello; 26th March 2015 at 12:12. |
||||
26th March 2015, 14:21 | #1986 | Link | |||||
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
Quote:
Quote:
Code:
Source, Load Plugin, Etc. TFM(Order=-1).TDecimate(Mode=1) #deinterlace #crop #resize #denoise QTGMC(FPSDivisor=2,Lsb=True,Preset="Medium",ChromaMotion=True,EZDenoise=2,Sharpness=0) Pick-A-Sharpener,Any-Sharpener() Quote:
SMDegrain'sNewHome and MoreAwesomeDogwayTools Dogway has never been anything but friendly (and ridiculously patient) with me so I'm sure he'd be willing to answer any questions you have. Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by LouieChuckyMerry; 26th March 2015 at 14:27. |
|||||
26th March 2015, 17:09 | #1987 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,829
|
I'm not sure I've tried Lsb=True when using QTGMC, but if you follow it with an 8 bit filter (which often I would) I doubt there'd be much point anyway.
Quote:
Quote:
For some reason the original 0.2 version is about 30% faster than any of the others (default settings, single threaded Avisynth). I haven't had a look at the scripts to try to work out why yet. Last edited by hello_hello; 26th March 2015 at 17:13. |
||
27th March 2015, 01:24 | #1988 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
That's a really good question. Although I've both versions, I've been using 2.2d because, well, because in my mind it was newer than 2.21d. Seems I can't count very well, as "21" is certainly larger than "2". A quick gander with NotePad shows they're both dated 5 March 2013 but 2.21d has an extra chroma setting, Chr2, that's (as far as I can figure, which isn't very) used for prefiltering. But you'd have to ask Dogway as I'm unqualified to answer. Actually, I think I'll ask Dogway myself as I'd be quite depressed to learn that many months worth of encodes could've been a wee bit better.
|
28th March 2015, 05:28 | #1989 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
Dogway answered your question then updated SMDegrain: FromTheTipsOfDog
|
30th March 2015, 04:27 | #1990 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,829
|
Quote:
Back to QTGMC for noise removal...... I had a bit more of a play with a particularly noisy video (movie from the 70s) and it does seem QTGMC's medium preset is less likely to produce artefacts in progressive mode (where there's motion) than the default slow preset. Not that the slow preset is bad. I have to deliberately pause frames and look for problems. In order to compensate for using a faster speed preset I increased the de-noising a little, and of course then I decided I wanted to compensate for the blurring..... I was quite happy with the end result, but the script is very slow, especially for HD. I didn't use anything other than default settings and adjusting QTGMC's denoising. QTGMC(InputType=1, Preset="Medium", EzDenoise=2) LSFMod() gradfun3() It's hard to demonstrate denoising with still pictures, and the noise is more noticeable than the first screenshot might indicate (although I used a shot that included a blue sky so it's easy to see the pattern of noise), but the noise is greatly reduced and the encoded version is sharper than the original. It's probably on the verge of looking "sharpened" to me so I might dial LSFMod back a tad next time. Before (resized to 720p, no filtering): After (QTGMC & LSFMod & Gradfun3): Now I know SMDegrain can use LFSMod for sharpening I'll experiment with it at some stage soon to see if I can achieve a similar result. (Maybe if we're going to continue to discuss noise removal, even using QTGMC, we should start a new thread. If I do later on after playing with the new SMDegrain I'll add a link here) |
|
31st March 2015, 02:23 | #1991 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 355
|
No problem, glad I could actually help for a change .
And A Blue Sky Never Lies, ha ha, especially the older the source. As I mentioned earlier, solid backgrounds catch my eye now, particularly when they're "alive" (almost as if they're breathing) with noise. As I work chronologically backwards through my collection I'm discovering that denoising is getting quite a bit more... "involved" is a reasonable word. Damn film stock! Your second shot looks waaay better to my eyes, but I can see what you mean about it bordering on oversharpened. I've found denoising to be a bit like listening to music; my preference is to use "neutral" earphones or speakers so I hear the music as it was made. It's the same for video viewing: oversharpening a Brian "King Of Soft Focus" DePalma classic would be anathema to me but, geez, the excess grain is so distracting it's difficult to enjoy the movie. Anyway, you're right about a new link (thanks for your patience, QTGMC Thread), keep me posted (couldn't resist). |
4th April 2015, 14:55 | #1993 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 485
|
I have a DVD that I am converting to a MP4 file after doing some cleanup. I first used VOB2MPG to create a MPEG2 file of the main movie. Plays fine. It is then my intent to deinterlace the movie, and then adjust the size as it's 16:9 and want it 1:1. And then use NeatVideo to clean it up a lot. OK so that's what I'm trying to do but after hitting the first step things are going wrong.
Create an AVISynth script basically with: Code:
ffmpegsource2("vob2mpg.mpg", vtrack = -1) trim(0,3500) ## AssumeTFF() QTGMC(Preset="Slower", SourceMatch=3, Lossless=2, MatchEnhance=0.75, TR2=1, Sharpness=0.1) Note I also used the above avisynth script with QTGMC commented out. Video played fine. Some info on the original: - 5322kbps video - 720x480 (16:9) - 29.97fps - Interlaced - TFF Any thoughts? Thanks. JR Last edited by jriker1; 4th April 2015 at 15:09. |
4th April 2015, 16:04 | #1994 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,374
|
Quote:
"main movie" ? If it's a theatrical movie, you can be 99.9% certain the content is NOT interlaced . From a NTSC you should be IVTCing, not deinterlacing. Likely that's why it's "jerky" |
|
4th April 2015, 16:24 | #1995 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 485
|
Quote:
JR EDIT: OK here are the files: Piece of the original DVD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7reer6mqh...98%29.mpg?dl=0 Smaller piece of the converted video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ywv8xtu2gz...47%29.avi?dl=0 Last edited by jriker1; 4th April 2015 at 16:37. |
|
4th April 2015, 18:25 | #1996 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 357
|
Opening that .mpg file with DSS2 failed. VirtualDub tells me it can't save to .avi. MKVmerge reports "found at least one B frame without second reference in a non closed GOP". Converting with mencoder (which throws up some warnings and doesn't convert the audio) to .avi and frame-stepping in AvsPmod shows the typical 3:2 pattern of progressive:interleaved frames. Solution: don't convert to .mpg and deinterlace via some IVTC script/plugin instead of QTGMC.
Last edited by creaothceann; 4th April 2015 at 23:47. |
4th April 2015, 20:50 | #1997 | Link | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,406
|
Quote:
As creaothceann said, it IVTC's perfectly using something like this: TFM() TDecimate() Unless you're using QTGMC for its cleaning properties, there's no reason to use it at all, and certainly not to make a 59.94fps video out of it when the true framerate is 23.976fps. Last edited by manono; 4th April 2015 at 20:53. |
|
4th April 2015, 21:30 | #1998 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Krautland
Posts: 903
|
Quote:
@manono: I really appreciate all your patience for all the years on this topic! |
|
5th April 2015, 00:43 | #1999 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 485
|
Thank you folks and sorry for sending I guess incorrectly. For reference, how do I provide a VOB of just the main movie? Is there a tool to separate that out? Thought the MPG file was basically the VOB file which I thought was basically an MPEG2 container, and puts it into just a MPG labeled MPEG2 container with just the pieces of the main movie without any conversions. Maybe I'm wrong.
Anway, I have used in the past the following: Code:
tfm(mode=5,pp=0,slow=1) tdecimate(cycle=5) Thanks. JR EDIT: Note when I leave pp=0 in everything still looks interlaced. have to take that command out to default to it's original setting of 6 to see a change with the above. EDIT EDIT: I tried the above and resulting file had the same jerky output. I can try it without those params but guessing that isn't going to help. Also when I ran this thru DGIndex to try a different way of loading the file I got at the end "A field order transition was detected" and asked if I want it corrected. Also DG says file is 29.97 interlaced. Also trying now with MPEG2Source("VTS_01_1.d2v") directly to the VOB files and think it may be working better. Still interested in the field order message as I got this also when directly loading the VOB files in DGindex. Last edited by jriker1; 5th April 2015 at 01:33. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|