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Old 3rd March 2013, 18:41   #17881  |  Link
e-t172
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
If you don't mind me asking, what is your recommendation on whether to apply the 3D-LUT on top of the 3x1D-LUTs or independently of it?
I would apply the 3D-LUT independently (i.e. measure without 1D-LUTs and apply without 1D-LUTs by using the "disable gamma ramps" option). Doing everything in one processing step is better in terms of precision than doing it in two separate steps (especially when there are integer conversions in the middle).
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Old 3rd March 2013, 19:59   #17882  |  Link
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I have a questions people. Do anyone know which GPU would be powerful enough to use with smooth motion + frame blending up to 30 fps content without dropped frames? I hear the GTX 260 can't save us this time.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 20:04   #17883  |  Link
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Now that madVR includes a Smooth Motion option, how does that affect the use of SVP? I asked the same question on the SVP forum, but I'm wondering if I still need SVP or if madVR has made it obsolete?
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Old 3rd March 2013, 20:08   #17884  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Now that madVR includes a Smooth Motion option, how does that affect the use of SVP? I asked the same question on the SVP forum, but I'm wondering if I still need SVP or if madVR has made it obsolete?
yes you do.

SVP actually adds extra frames and makes it more smooth.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 21:40   #17885  |  Link
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hmmm... can you try playing a 4:3 video and skipping to a black frame in exclusive mode?
when the blacks in the video and the borders are the same, then there is no problem with the decoder or any other part of your playback chain... should be another issue then...
hmm, the blacks are ok now, look same w/ or w/o FSE. i must've changed something, not sure what.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 23:12   #17886  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Now that madVR includes a Smooth Motion option, how does that affect the use of SVP? I asked the same question on the SVP forum, but I'm wondering if I still need SVP or if madVR has made it obsolete?
depends on why you use SVP... if you just don't want 3:2 judder, then you'll only need madVR's smooth motion...
but if you want motion interpolation (more fps) then you'll still have to use SVP...
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Old 3rd March 2013, 23:40   #17887  |  Link
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I have a questions people. Do anyone know which GPU would be powerful enough to use with smooth motion + frame blending up to 30 fps content without dropped frames? I hear the GTX 260 can't save us this time.
Don't take what you hear for granted? My GT440 which is less than half as powerful as a GTX 260 has no issues whatsoever using Smooth Motion. The actual minimum requirements should probably be much lower than that.

If the person is using stock (non-OC) CPU and GPU clocks, has low DPC latency, and is unable to troubleshoot the issue by using less intensive scaling settings, or tweaking madVR's numerous other options, they should file a bug report on madshi's bugtracker. Overall, I don't think you should even try to make any sort of broad determination about Smooth Motion until madshi is satisfied that he's fixed all the critical bugs, and enables by default in a future release. At the moment, I'd say the feature is still in the user feedback and testing phase.
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Old 4th March 2013, 00:38   #17888  |  Link
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To be frank, I think FRC is awesome. Hopefully with some more improvements it will become a standard, nice alternative to using SVP and avisynth for realtime playback. FRC definitely looks closer to SVP than just refresh rate multiple and reclock, at least if running at < 60Hz (48Hz for 24fps).
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Old 4th March 2013, 01:36   #17889  |  Link
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I plan on using a cheap monitor as a second TV in a year or so (connected to a PC running MediaPortal in client mode). It only does 60 Hz AFAIK though so MadVR's smooth video option will be vital. That gives the MediaPortal devs a year to add MadVR support. Not very likely but you never know.
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Old 4th March 2013, 02:19   #17890  |  Link
leeperry
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BTW, talking about 8bit LUT's, 60Hz-only monitors and all I just found out that LG's 170€ M2232D / 200€ M2432D 1080p serie is "ISF ccc" certified so you get all the colorimetry options a colorfreak could ever crave, has a MPEG4 DVB-T tuner onboard and also supports 24/30/50/60Hz

The 27" version uses a 600:1 CR IPS panel and these are 1K:1 TN of course, but bang/bucks looks huge! Their built-in dynamic contrast algorithm looks extremely impressive to me(not as artificial as Sammy's DNIE) and the 24p demo BD in the store looked as smooth as it gets.....I'll prolly get ahold of the 24" version tomorrow

I'll lose a hell lot of native CR compared to CRT but I'll gain perfect geometry/sharpness, perfect colorimetry(without a nasty 8bit LUT), most impressive dynamic CR and if I'm lucky clouding won't as much of an issue on 20" LCD's as it on 40"s. Also, 24p should be a lot less blurry on a 5ms TN panel than on a +16ms MVA.

BTW, just for the record I updated the XLS gamut mapping spreadsheet with 6 digits after the coma for the standards gamuts white points instead of the stock 4 digits. I'm attaching it to this post.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ColourCorrection+.zip (9.9 KB, 66 views)

Last edited by leeperry; 4th March 2013 at 05:06.
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Old 4th March 2013, 13:46   #17891  |  Link
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Don't take what you hear for granted? My GT440 which is less than half as powerful as a GTX 260 has no issues whatsoever using Smooth Motion. The actual minimum requirements should probably be much lower than that.

If the person is using stock (non-OC) CPU and GPU clocks, has low DPC latency, and is unable to troubleshoot the issue by using less intensive scaling settings, or tweaking madVR's numerous other options, they should file a bug report on madshi's bugtracker. Overall, I don't think you should even try to make any sort of broad determination about Smooth Motion until madshi is satisfied that he's fixed all the critical bugs, and enables by default in a future release. At the moment, I'd say the feature is still in the user feedback and testing phase.
Haha, well. Smooth motion alone is okay here, but the moment I enable frame blending everything goes downhill, so I was just curious about which range of GPUs seems to have a better job handling those. Thanks anyway.
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Old 4th March 2013, 14:10   #17892  |  Link
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Haha, well. Smooth motion alone is okay here, but the moment I enable frame blending everything goes downhill, so I was just curious about which range of GPUs seems to have a better job handling those. Thanks anyway.
Of course it does. Frame blending is extremely expensive. But why would you use FRC and frame blending together, I don´t get it. Please give us a technical explanation what you´re trying to achieve with that.

Last edited by iSunrise; 4th March 2013 at 14:13.
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Old 4th March 2013, 14:23   #17893  |  Link
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Of course it does. Frame blending is extremely expensive. But why would you use FRC and frame blending together, I don´t get it. Please give us a technical explanation what you´re trying to achieve with that.
I'm sure madshi said that disabling the option "don't user linear light for smooth motion frame bleding" in rendering options would make the quality go up. Unless I misread that, it does make it look a little better here. But again, I can't use it because of the frame drops.
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Old 4th March 2013, 15:19   #17894  |  Link
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I'm sure madshi said that disabling the option "don't user linear light for smooth motion frame bleding" in rendering options would make the quality go up. Unless I misread that, it does make it look a little better here. But again, I can't use it because of the frame drops.
Oh, so you are talking about that option in particular, seems I misread that somehow.

Enabling or disabling that option on a GTX580 with 2D clocks (Core 405MHz/Memory 162.0MHz/Shaders 810MHz) doesn´t make any difference in utilization here. It stays the same at 50% GPU Load and 38% Memory Controller Load. Utilization is at 30% GPU Load and 20% Memory Controller Load without smooth motion.

I am not sure why you are having problems with that. Your GPU should be fast enough. Check your GPU utilization with GPU-Z and post a screenshot here.

Last edited by iSunrise; 4th March 2013 at 15:24.
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Old 4th March 2013, 16:10   #17895  |  Link
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Your GPU should be fast enough. Check your GPU utilization with GPU-Z and post a screenshot here.
You know which GPU I have? It's a Intel 4500MHD (GM45 Mobile). It can't even playback 1080p in 10-bit.
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Old 4th March 2013, 16:24   #17896  |  Link
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You know which GPU I have? It's a Intel 4500MHD (GM45 Mobile). It can't even playback 1080p in 10-bit.
A Geforce GTX260 should be fast enough for up to 30fps content, easily. It all depends on your scaling settings, the resolution/fps of your source files and your target resolution/Hz. If you don´t go overboard with algorithms like Jinc and you are not playing some crazy high fps interlaced content, you´re fine.

Last edited by iSunrise; 4th March 2013 at 16:27.
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Old 4th March 2013, 16:32   #17897  |  Link
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Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
A Geforce GTX260 should be fast enough for up to 30fps content, easily. It all depends on your scaling settings, the resolution/fps of your source files and your target resolution/Hz. If you don´t go overboard with algorithms like Jinc and you are not playing some crazy high fps interlaced content, you´re fine.
I see. Thanks.
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Old 4th March 2013, 17:50   #17898  |  Link
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Doing a bit more testing with Smooth Motion right now, it would appear 0.86.1 caused a minor performance regression with smooth motion + windowed mode + high framerate video on my GT440 DDR5.

With 0.86.1 my GT440 DDR5 bottlenecks with 50fps content in windowed mode.
Backbuffer queue drops to 0-4/4, Render Queue drops to 2-4/16 when the bottleneck occurs along with dropped frames.

With 0.86.0 my GT440 DDR5 is fine with 50fps content, but bottlenecks with 60fps content in windowed mode.
Backbuffer queue fluctuates between 0-4/4 & 3-4/4, Render Queue drops to 4-6/16 when the bottleneck occurs along with dropped frames.

Setting Windowed Mode "after intermediate render step" to flush & wait seems to counteract the dropped frames by preventing the Backbuffer Queue from falling to 0. madVR 0.86.1 (Backbuffer 1-3/4) is still slower than 0.86.0 (Backbuffer 2-3/4) even with this change. Yet setting flush and wait there creates a different bottleneck to my Render Queue on high framerate video when not using Smooth Motion, so it's not really a practical workaround.

Fullscreen Exclusive Mode is unaffected by this issue. For whatever reason, Fullscreen Exclusive GPU load is 15% lower compared to Windowed when scaling the SmoothMotion59.ytp patten with Smooth Motion enabled.

Nothing really noteworthy about this other than my GPU just being too weak, and quick to become bottnecked as the number of flushes performed by madVR in the render pipeline increase.
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Old 4th March 2013, 18:20   #17899  |  Link
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Oh yeah, I know this is almost totally unrelated to madVR but I really need some help with this.

When I use ReClock and I enable the "PAL SpeedDown (force to 24 fps)" option (screenshot), my audio gets in some sort of slow motion and it's really annoying. I've already set madVR to treat 25p as 24p, and I've tried numerous ReClock options to see if I could fix that but nothing. The only way to not make that happen is to manually set the speed to "24p" in the media stream when the video is being played (screenshot). It's the same window where you set "PAL SpeedDown (force to 24 fps)".

For reference, I have a 60hz screen.
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Old 4th March 2013, 20:10   #17900  |  Link
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I'm not sure what the fuss is all about regarding FRC performance. I just tested FRC on a Intel HD 4000 with a 1080p video (and a 1080p screen @ 60Hz) and it just works, with no frame drops. And that's with the "trade quality for performance" option disabled (so maximum quality).
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