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Old 6th November 2011, 17:20   #10661  |  Link
robpdotcom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
I installed my AMD card (5750), and tested with some fast moving content (tennis matches, fwiw, where it's easy for me to see a difference) - it was not nearly as smooth as with the NVIDIA GTS-450. Using EVR (with DXVA decoding) or yadif is clearly smoother than madVR on my AMD card - it really seemed like there was no deinterlacing going on. I tried playing around with some of the AMD video settings, and the "deinterlace in separate thread" option in madVR but no changes made any difference as far as I can see. The OSD shows that deinterlacing is being used, and all queues are full.
Are there dropped frames? Are you using the same decoder for madVR and EVR? Can you see the difference in screenshots? Or is the non-smoothness more looking like frame drops, with no difference visible in screenschots?
There are no dropped frames. I tried with several different decoders, including the MS DTV-DVD decoder with EVR and madVR. As far as a difference in screen shots, I'll let you be the judge (I found it interesting that madVR says "deinterlacing off (framerate)", when using the internal decoder, and reports the framerate as 59.940):

Internal madVR decoder

MS DTV-DVD decoder/EVR

MS DTV-DVD decoder/madVR deinterlacing off

MS DTV-DVD decoder/madVR deinterlacing on

To me, the difference doesn't look like dropped frames when playing - it just looks like it isn't doubling the framerate, or maybe isn't even deinterlacing at all (I notice the difference in smoothness more than anything else). I also checked with 1080i59 VC-1 and h264 files, with the same results. It seems to me that I'm seeing the same thing as Andy o.

BTW: The issue with madVR reporting 59.940 only happens with the internal madVR decoder and Haali. Using the internal decoder with LAV Splitter shows a framerate of 29.970 (but the non-smoothness is still present).
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Last edited by robpdotcom; 6th November 2011 at 18:12.
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Old 6th November 2011, 17:31   #10662  |  Link
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Please help a noob who has been trying to get a decent setup for a week

if i am right MadVR now does DXVA for ATI?
to test this I opened ati control centre and play with the settings using the demo mode which puts a line down the screen to show what the tools are doing?
this does not show when using MadVR nor any enhancments, should they?

also running anydvd to play bluray discs and HWA not working

also '6233638' how exactly are you playing DVD's
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Old 6th November 2011, 17:33   #10663  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can reproduce the problem but I don't have the means at this point in time to figure out what's going on exactly. On a first glance it doesn't seem to be a bug in madVR, but I could be wrong on that. FWIW, the issue doesn't seem to occur if you switch subtitles via madVR's tray icon. Which is what I'm usually doing, anyway. Isn't madVR's tray icon much prettier than Haali's?
An option to remove the annoying sub-menu then? The advantage of Haali's menu over MPC-HC's and madVR's is that I don't have to go to an extra sub-menu just to switch the track/see the chapters, I can see them immediately.
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Old 6th November 2011, 17:51   #10664  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
When I disable madVR's deinterlacing, the results are awful with "tricky" titles.
So just curious, why don't you have ffdshow do the decoding and tick off 'set interlaced flag in output media type' (it's in ffdshow video output), then menus and DXVA work!

Is it true then that madvr can do deinterlacing separate from decoding, but with cuvid you must enable decoding (MPEG2) to get that?
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:04   #10665  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pacemaker1000 View Post
if i am right MadVR now does DXVA for ATI?
only DXVA deinterlacing. not full dxva support.

I got that wrong as well first, though
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:09   #10666  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
only DXVA deinterlacing. not full dxva support.

I got that wrong as well first, though
Doh!!!

got ne thinking as madshi actually says about disabling edge enhancements making me think it was using full dxva
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:15   #10667  |  Link
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If only madshi had made that clear in his post for 0.78. You know, in big letters or something? sigh.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...40#post1536640
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:19   #10668  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
If only madshi had made that clear in his post for 0.78. You know, in big letters or something? sigh.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...40#post1536640
oooops feeling really stupid now
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:23   #10669  |  Link
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oooops feeling really stupid now
Bah, we all make those kinds of mistakes. Nothing to worry about. I just thought it was funny that madshi took the time to make that huge statement and here we are discussing it. LOL I realize that any time DXVA is mentioned people automatically start thinking decoding. But DXVA clearly can be used for a variety of things. Thankfully! Cause I'm quite pleased with how well it works.
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:27   #10670  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If I can reproduce it. I've just tried and turning audio processing on/off in PotPlayer does not crash here with my latest v0.78 sources. You can try again with v0.78 once it's released. If you still have the crash with v0.78, let me know, but then I'll need to be able to reproduce the crash on my PC.
Thanks for the response. I've tried 0.78 and the problem is still there. Every time I switch on/off audio processing, video playback stops and sound keeps going, or PotPlayer crashes, sometimes this bug occurs only when I switch audio processing several times rapidly.

I have uploaded MadVR debug logs, maybe this will help you.

Haali+LAV Video(CUVID mode)
AVsplitter+LAV Video(CUVID mode)
AVsplitter+PotPlayer Decoder(renderless mode)

http://www.filedropper.com/madvrlog

Also there are some compatibility problems with madVR internal deinterlacing and potplayer decoder(renderless mode), on this filter pair I got choppy playback. Tested on 1080i vc-1 in ts container.

Last edited by RBG; 6th November 2011 at 18:53.
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:53   #10671  |  Link
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madshi
Thank you very much for hardware deintelacing (I have been dreaming for that since madvr 0.1 ).
So dxva hard deinterlacer is a "black box" that works the following way:
1) 1080\576i50 --> 1080\576p50, if "black box" detects pure video and --> 1080\576p25, if "black box" detects film content.
2) 1080\480i59 --> 1080\480p59, if "black box" detects pure video and --> 1080\480p29, if "black box" detects film content.
Am I right?
So "black box" does IVTC for PAL and does not for NTSC?

Tested .78 for HD video content ("slices" tests and music videos). Everything is OK. Madvr = EVR

Tested with some PAL SD content (DVD remuxed to mkv). I am not sure, but sometimes when I switch deinterlacing off the result is better, cleaner (plain soft weaving). Is "black box" really good film content detector? Does it just weave?
madshi Would you recommend use soft weaving deinterlacing for PAL film content ?
Config: 5750, W7

Last edited by nlnl; 6th November 2011 at 21:13.
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:54   #10672  |  Link
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When I play a file that contains something like "1080p24" in its name the Ctrl-J stats always show that frame rate, although my "display modes" box is completely empty (tested in 0.77 and 0.78). Is this by design?
Also, why does it still show "(says source filter)" when I've overridden the information from the filter?

Another small thing I noticed 0.78: When I pause a video in windowed mode the decoder queue goes to 13-13/12. Weird

Noticed some big problems in my first deinterlacing tests. Will continue to test and report back tomorrow.

Last edited by cremor; 6th November 2011 at 19:11.
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Old 6th November 2011, 18:55   #10673  |  Link
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Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
So just curious, why don't you have ffdshow do the decoding and tick off 'set interlaced flag in output media type' (it's in ffdshow video output), then menus and DXVA work!
ffdshow decoding doesn't seem to work with DVD playback, and I had to remove ffdshow to stop the Macrovision errors with DVD playback. (I think it might have been the audio decoder? It was so long ago now that I forget the specifics)
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Old 6th November 2011, 19:29   #10674  |  Link
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Update on my problem of madVR deinterlacing not being smooth:

My card is the 5750. I uninstalled the latest driver, and went back to the oldest driver I have saved - 10.7. Playback is now very smooth. I tried two other versions in between 10.7 and 11.10 (11.7 and 11.8) - both versions brought back the problem.

Could it be a problem with the older cards (5XXX) and the newer drivers (the drivers released since the CCC revamp)?

After realizing it was the newer drivers, I tried a few things: I installed the latest driver, selecting only the driver from the installation (without the latest CCC/Media Foundation codecs'HDMI audio driver.... none of the other stuff you get with the driver packages). Reboot, playback is not smooth.

I rolled back to the older driver - smooth again, didn't even need to reboot. I installed the latest driver package, this time with everything except the latest driver - still smooth.
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Old 6th November 2011, 19:31   #10675  |  Link
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Not having a problem with my AMD 5870 and 11.10 fwiw.
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Old 6th November 2011, 19:35   #10676  |  Link
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Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
Update on my problem of madVR deinterlacing not being smooth:

My card is the 5750. I uninstalled the latest driver, and went back to the oldest driver I have saved - 10.7. Playback is now very smooth. I tried two other versions in between 10.7 and 11.10 (11.7 and 11.8) - both versions brought back the problem.

Could it be a problem with the older cards (5XXX) and the newer drivers (the drivers released since the CCC revamp)?

After realizing it was the newer drivers, I tried a few things: I installed the latest driver, selecting only the driver from the installation (without the latest CCC/Media Foundation codecs'HDMI audio driver.... none of the other stuff you get with the driver packages). Reboot, playback is not smooth.

I rolled back to the older driver - smooth again, didn't even need to reboot. I installed the latest driver package, this time with everything except the latest driver - still smooth.
According to some users on AVSForum for instance, 10.12 was the latest stable and usable AMD driver. That was the version where you could choose between CCC and the new interface. I have that one installed, chose the new interface. And i use Realtek's ATI HDMI driver. All is fine since, and i have never updated till now, since i see no reason for it and there are now important features added or important bugs removed since then. They only seem to work on game related stuff that doesn't interest me.

My HD5770 has worked like a charm with this driver, so im not eager to upgrade :-)

Last edited by G_M_C; 6th November 2011 at 19:41.
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Old 6th November 2011, 19:37   #10677  |  Link
JarrettH
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
ffdshow decoding doesn't seem to work with DVD playback, and I had to remove ffdshow to stop the Macrovision errors with DVD playback. (I think it might have been the audio decoder? It was so long ago now that I forget the specifics)
Oh did you happen to tick off "DVD decoding"? In the row for MPEG2 a new option appears.

I just grabbed this from the web, it's not my own...

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Old 6th November 2011, 20:07   #10678  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It seems that creating a texture at some point fails in your case. I'm not 100% sure why, but my best guess would be that madVR is simply running out of GPU RAM. Maybe I need to work on that, or maybe allow the render etc queues to be configured smaller. Deinterlacing definitely takes more GPU RAM. Not sure why Managed Textures stop the problem. It's possible Managed Textures resort to PCIe RAM when GPU RAM runs out, but I'm not sure...
Well I take that back, Managed Textures doesn't completely stop the crashes, it just makes them less common.

Either way, you appear to be correct about the GPU RAM running out causing the crashes. As soon as I launch a 1440x1080i30 16:9 anamorphic MPEG2-TS, memory use instantly jumps to 500MB-505MB and madVR crashes. Though when it doesn't crash, it runs perfectly (if a bit slow) with maxed out 500-505MB GPU RAM usage for the entire playtime. So either this means you need a GPU to >512MB of RAM to use the dxva2 deinterlacing in madVR reliably, or this is a bug.

Using the NVIDIA PureVideo MPEG-2 decoder + dxva1 deinterlacing with VMR9, my memory use only increases ~100MB. With madVR dxva2 deinterlacing it shoots up ~275MB+.

Edit: Could this in any way be caused by my slow madNV12Test download results?
Code:
D3D9 Surface speed test:
NV12: upload 392 fps, download 4 fps, trick download failed
YV12: upload 346 fps, download 4 fps, trick download failed
A8R8G8B8: upload 175 fps, download 2 fps, trick download failed

DXVA Surface speed test:
NV12: upload 398 fps, download 4 fps, trick download failed
YV12: upload 347 fps, download 4 fps, trick download failed
A8R8G8B8: upload 173 fps, download 2 fps, trick download failed

A8R8G8B8 Texture speed test:
default: upload 96 fps, download 171 fps
dynamic: upload 175 fps, download 10 fps, trick download 92 fps

Last edited by cyberbeing; 6th November 2011 at 20:14.
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Old 6th November 2011, 20:31   #10679  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.78 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added support for DXVA2 deinterlacing
...
FEEDBACK:

I need to know...

(a) ... how deinterlacing quality and performance compares to LAV CUVID, could you please check that? If LAV CUVID looks or performs better, maybe there's room for me to improve, too.
(b) ... whether the option "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" makes things better or worse for you. Ideally I hope it will be better or worse for everybody so that I can then hard code the "right" setting and remove the option. On my PC it seems that having this option off works better for windowed mode, but having it on works better for exclusive mode.
madshi,
you are GREAT !!!


I really like how things develop - now I can use my CPU for decoding and my GPU for rendering + deinterlacing and thus spread the load and keep both of them in lower power states


I've done some preliminary tests and here are my answers to your two questions:
a) I think the deinterlacing quality is the same .... or just a touch worse than LAV CUVID but I can't give you any proof of this - it's purely subjective and I could be wrong. I'll do some more tests and report back if I can quantify the difference ... if there actually is such.

b) for me turning on "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" results in better filling of the queues which I think results in less chance of dropping frames but I do agree with you that it has some impact on windowed mode

Here are my stats for a 1080i50 TV recording played on 1080p display @ 50.00014Hz (in all cases the decoder ques stays at 11-13/13)
1. Fullscreen exclusive mode + "perform deinterlacing in separate thread"=OFF
Code:
upload queue 6-(8)9 / 9
deinterlace queue 4-(8)9 / 9
render queue 4-(7)8 / 8
present queue 2-4 / 4
avg. stats
  deinterlace 4.73ms
max stats (5s)
  deinterlace 5.65ms
with 0 dropped frames

2. Fullscreen exclusive mode + "perform deinterlacing in separate thread"=ON
Code:
upload queue 7-9 / 9
deinterlace queue 7-9 / 9
render queue 7-8 / 8
present queue 3-4 / 4
avg. stats
  deinterlace 5.59ms
max stats (5s)
  deinterlace 5.87ms
with 0 dropped frames

3. Fullscreen windowed mode + "perform deinterlacing in separate thread"=OFF
Code:
upload queue 5-7 / 9
deinterlace queue (3)4-6 / 9
render queue 3-4 / 8
backbuffer queue (1)2-3 / 3
avg. stats
  deinterlace 3.92ms
  rendering 8.95ms
max stats (5s)
  deinterlace 5.01ms
  rendering 13.60ms
with a few dropped frames ... probably ~4-5 per minute

4. Fullscreen windowed mode + "perform deinterlacing in separate thread"=ON
Code:
upload queue 7-9 / 9
deinterlace queue 7-9 / 9
render queue 3-4 / 8
backbufferqueue 2-3 / 3
avg. stats
  deinterlace 5.45ms
  rendering 12.81ms
max stats (5s)
  deinterlace 6.26ms
  rendering 19-21ms
with a few dropped frames ... probably ~4-5 per minute but initially after going out of exclusive mode there were a lot more dropped frames than normally (> 100 compared to the normal 10-20)

* the numbers in brackets () are shown rarely

All these are performed on my NVIDIA GTX 460 SE 1GB in little bit overclocked P8 state (405MHz Core / 162MHz Memory / 910MHz Shader clocks) enforced by NVIDIA Inspector - Multi Display Power Saver.

My conclusion is that it's better to have the setting turned on in FSE mode and turned off in windowed mode.
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Old 6th November 2011, 20:37   #10680  |  Link
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Pankov, I see you use ZP, could you try to recreate this:
Quote:
Start playing a video. Minimize the player in the task bar (so the image isn't displayed) but keep playback going.
Wait like a minute. When you bring the player back up, the video plays super crazy fast to catch up with the audio.
Thanks,

TSR
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