big doubt about backup rights !

i posted the same here:
http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76116#76116

i got one pm today and don't know the right answer.

we have the right to copy a dvd that we buy for backup ?
if yes, this backup could be as vcd-kvcd-svcd-skvcd....etc?

---> or only in dvd ?

i need to know the law about that backup and what format can be used !

thanks!

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by jorel
i posted the same here:
http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76116#76116

i got one pm today and don't know the right answer.

we have the right to copy a dvd that we buy for backup ?
if yes, this backup could be as vcd-kvcd-svcd-skvcd....etc?

---> or only in dvd ?

i need to know the law about that backup and what format can be used !

thanks!

Jorel I answered you over at Kvcd. But I suspect Kwag will be catching it soon. So I'll reply here. As far as I know Brazil has no specific fair use doctrine. On the plus side neither are they known for really persecuting those who would try to exercize such rights. If you backup only for yourself and only from media you own. You should be fine to back up from any source to any format. Kvcd, Xvid, VCD, etc. Where I live we have "fair use" doctrine that says we can back stuff up. But we also have corporate lobbying groups that have circumvented our rights and made it illegal in many cases. I back up regularly. And I do it without fear. I keep everything only for myself. The worst I have done is share a show recorded from cable with family who get the same station but simply missed the show. Am I breaking the law? No. Yes. Maybe. I know I am not. But that may not stop someone from trying to accuse me of it. Play it like I layed out and you should have nothing to fear. It is one of the base principles this forum is built on.

PS: much better with your english. I got ya loud and clean this time.

PPS: "Kwags-bane" was/is me there now.

better english?

you're kiddin.
thanks, i saw your answer in kvcd forum first and i knew that was you after read more posts from you there.see my point:i need to know about what the law have rights and what you (we) have rights! in Brasil on audio cds,dvds,etc have big advertences showing law number this,number that,lending,..see a example from Paul McCartney-driving rain audio cd:
all the rights of the phonografic producer and the proprietor of the work are reserved.the reproduction,rental,public perform and radio(transmission) of this disk are forbidden.
my opinion about the law is irrelevant,law is law for rights and controls,nothing more.than i need the law in your country and in all countries to understand how it works cos here have one law,in USA another,in Germany another different and maybe in every country have differents too.my and your opinion are importants but irrelevants when the law see what we are doing, right? then this is my point in the question.your and some some opinions are welcome but i need the vision of the law and how it works! i will that my words are correct to show my intentions.thank you Neo Neko !

[jggimi]

@Jorel:

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, therefore, this is not legal advice. If you wish legal advice, please consult an intellectual property rights attorney in Brazil.

1. Every country has different laws and regulations -- lets call them "rules" -- regarding intellectual property rights.
   
2. Each country has a set of rules for domestically produced content.
   
3. Imported and exported intellectual property may or may not be treated differently. "International Copyright" is actually a treaty: The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.
   
4. Most countries -- but not all -- are signatories to the Berne Convention. Each country will have a variety of rules in place to support their individual interpretation of the treaty as it stood when they signed it.
   
5. The Berne Convention began in the 1880s, was first signed by countries in the 1890s, and has been modified several times since then. The last change to the treaty was in 1979.
   
6. Countries have been allowed to sign "with reservations" under specific articles of the treaty, which is why rules differ from country to country.
   
7. Brazil originally signed the Berne Convention in 1922. Brazil's last signature to changes was in 1975. Therefore, Brazil is signatory to the 1971 version of the treaty. Brazil signed without reservations.
   
8. I have not found a list of differences between the 1971 and 1979 treaties by Googling. But then, I didn't spend much time looking for it.

[wmansir]

When it comes to DVD backup there are usually 2 laws at issue:

1. Laws dealing with copyright, (Fair use, ect )
I'm not sure about Brazilian laws on this subject. As has already been said, countries like the US and Germany have explicit laws that give the user the right to make backups of copyrighted works for personal use.

2. Laws dealing with bypassing copy protection (CSS on DVDs), (DMCA, DRM, ect)
The good news is Brazil appears to be fighting efforts to impose DMCA-like laws. These laws make it illegal to break any encryption/copy protection mechanism, in almost all circumstances. So even if you have the right to make a personal backup, you can't do it without breaking this law. The fact that this law outright contradicts Fair Use laws in the US has not been fully tested in court here.

[Mozart]

there is a general consensus between the lawyers here in Brasil: you are a criminal only if you make money from some other dude´s (artistical) work without permission. So, in example, if you buy pirated DVD in the street, you are not a criminal. The criminal is the one who sell pirated DVDs. Thus, you can make copies of anything (books, cds, dvds...) IF they are for personal use, and you do not intend to sell it in the future.

edit:typo

can you translate this for me to portuguese please Mozart?
WARNING: The copyright proprietors have
licensed the cinematograph film,sound
recordings and packaging artwork contained
in this DVD for private home use only.
All other rights are reserved.Any unauthorised
use including but not limited to
copying,editing,lending,exchanging,
renting,hiring,exhibiting,public
performance,radio or television
broadcasting or any other diffusion,
or otherwise dealing with this DVD
or any part thereof is strictly prohybited.

thanks in advance!

if you can't post it here,please,send me a pm!

[Mozart]

these are just words used by the studios in order to scary the average viewer. They are not present in ANY brasilian law the way they have wrote. The brasilian law covering this issue is Lei dos direitos autorais. Please have a look at art. 104 and art.46 item II. talking about art46 item II: since there is no definition of "small parts", the lawyers agree that this "small parts" means nothing, and the only thing that sticks is "without the aim of profit".

Originally posted by Mozart
these are just words used by the studios in order to scary the average viewer. They are not present in ANY brasilian law the way they have wrote. The brasilian law covering this issue is Lei dos direitos autorais. Please have a look at art. 104 and art.46 item II. talking about art46 item II: since there is no definition of "small parts", the lawyers agree that this "small parts" means nothing, and the only thing that sticks is "without the aim of profit".

from babel fish the art46 item II:
the reproduction, in only exemplary one of small stretches, for private use of the copista, since that made for this, without intention of profit.
seems ok for you that translation to english? if yes,the law in Brasil is really clear for me (us).if you have corrections to this
translations,please do it, will be great! these are just words used by the studios in order to scary the average viewer. ...this is his intentions ? seems too stup,don't? strange,for my poor english seems against the art46 item II.
yesterday i got for R$320,00 the Beatles Antology (5 dvds pack)and in the back of each covering(sleeve)is wroten in portuguese(from babel fish): Attention the proprietor of the copyrights lisenciou the film contained in this dvd solely for doméstico.fica use forbidden any another use, copiagem, reproduction or execution in public who is integral or parcialmente.Os infractors will be sugeitos to the penalties of the law. see how babel fish tranlations are horrible.
thanks for that Mozart, you help a lot and in Brasil is very clear for me,you only forgot to send me the translation from english to portuguese that i posted but it's ok ! that big WARNING that i posted is in each DVD Beatles antology but like you wrote ..these are just words used by the studios in order to scary the average viewer...then is irrelevant, right? now i only need to know from other countries and his local laws about the same question. from Brasilian laws is very clear for me. thanks again!

@ wmansir and jggimi, thank you too. your opinions are very important and clever but can you post a little about the law in your countries, please? thanks in advance!

@ all that is reading this form differents countries: your opinions and local laws are welcome.thank you too!

[Mozart]

uhh... that translation is terrible, don't you think? Anyway, the brasilian law is in that link and anyone with good knowledge in portuguese can read it all. Shortly, it says "if you do not make profit, you can get and hold 1 (and just one) copy of anything for personal use (dvd, cd, books), even if you do not have the original". This is the law. Anything different wrote in a dvd, cd or book is just for FUD.

yes, the translations are horribles, you know that more than me and this is what i mean when i post the babel fish translation!
Mozart, in my DVS is wroten different and in portuguese. nothing like: you can get and hold 1 (and just one) copy of anything for personal use ..but is: solely for doméstic use. is forbidden any another use, copiagem (copy), reproduction...well,if a moderator give me the signal ok i can post what is write in portuguese but it's against the rule # 13.the law in Brasil is very clear for me like i wrote but if someone want to help me please send a pm and i post what is worte in my dvds for translate to good english! will be clear in english too. thanks!

[jggimi]

Mozart said the warnings you are reading are FUD. This means that the publisher is intentionally, and successfully causing Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

Fear: Temor

Uncertainty: Incerteza

Doubt: Dúvida

As I recommended... if you are still concerned, consult a lawyer in Brazil.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by jorel
from babel fish the art46 item II:
the reproduction, in only exemplary one of small stretches, for private use of the copista, since that made for this, without intention of profit.

Basically it is saying that you are fine to make coppies of short segments for private use without profit. And as Mozart said you can disregard the setion about small segments. If you are making them for your personal use and you own them. So long as you make no profit you are fully legal to make a backup for yourself. There is no country in the world that I am aware of that this is not the case. As I said many are often less strict. So in other words Jorel you are legal.

If they never know you have them you have nothing to worry about. It is like if you take GPL code and write your own program using it. If you don't want to release the code and keep the whole thing to yourself you are 100% legal. But when you start giving it to others without giving up the source then you cause issues. They are similar ideas after a fashion in that matter.

but this is what we think and not the law:
And as Mozart said you can disregard the setion about small segments.
what is important? what we think or the law? the law is to protect or to control?

jggimi, again i post: i don't have doubts about the law in Brasil.i want to know in other countries.thanks but i'm posting the same again!

[jggimi]

Time to do your own research, Jorel. www.google.com. It's where I went to answer your earlier questions.

thanks jggimi, i found good answers using the that link for search.
4 americans friends, 2 germans, 1 bolivian and lots brasilians are helping me too,they don't stay in forums like us, they are "normal" people (kiddin).... but i'm searching more cos i want extreme details and they still sending me good complements.

but why you're call yourself as "Mod of Misinformation" ?!?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by jorel


but why you're call yourself as "Mod of Misinformation" ?!?

Same reason why Doom9 calls himself "clueless n00b". For fun and probably to mock someone who tried to use those very same titles to try and insult them. Nothing insults insulters like taking their insults favorably. And then using them against them. Especially in these cases. Doom9 is hardly a cluless n00b. And jggimi is usually full of good information.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Doom9 is hardly a cluless n00b. And jggimi is usually full of good information.

The same as Neo Neko is full of sempai.

@ Neo Neko and r6d2

lol.....i know that is a "joke"(fun)and i not misunderstood jggimi,i was only "lol" to much...hey don't wait for bad things from me,i'm kidding and it's very clear, see my signature in kvcd forum as sample. my old avatar here was a joke too, do you remember?...the avatar of "expert" that got a big purple eye from pc!