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Old 27th September 2004, 19:57   #21  |  Link
MGRip
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Thanks,
I have really used Panasonic's codec. Where can I find the lastest ffdshow? Do I need to uninstall the panasonic codec?
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Old 27th September 2004, 20:05   #22  |  Link
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reinterpolate420() only works with the rgb or yuy2 output of commonly used DV-Codecs.

for YV12, I'll try to make another YUY2-upsampling function
(motion adaptive & edge directed)
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Old 28th September 2004, 15:08   #23  |  Link
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So how can it be that I had chroma jaggies (in text that was done in Adobe AE - full saturated) with the pana's codec (RGB24 only)?
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Old 28th September 2004, 16:41   #24  |  Link
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Because its DV = YV12 - no matter what your codec accepts as input and whatever it outputs after upsampling the chroma from YV12
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Old 28th September 2004, 17:41   #25  |  Link
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So why I can't reduce chroma jaggies when its the Panasonic codec?
Or maybe if I will write ConvertToYUY2() will it be the same effect as YV12?
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Old 28th September 2004, 17:49   #26  |  Link
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1) DV is stored as YV12. period.

2) the codec can output the video in those ways:
2a) leave it as it is: -> YV12 -> use converttoyuy2(interlaced=true) for a first aid to remove chroma-jaggyness.
YV12 output is one of the rare cases. ffdshow can do so.

2b) the codec upsamples to YUY2. (canopus)
but this is done in a very stupid way: pixel doubling.
this causes to the mentioned jaggyness, reinterpolate420() tries to eliminate

2c) the codec delivers YV12 upsampled to RGB24 (panasonic).
this upsampling is as stupid as the YUY2 one.
here you might use converttoyuy2() to get back to yuy2 and then apply reinterpolate420().

3) conclusion:
start with:
Code:
avisource("dv.avi").info()
if it is yv12, use converttoyuy2(interlaced=true), but do NOT use reinterpolate420()

if it is yuy2, just use reinterpooate420()

if it is rgb, then use

converttoyuy2().reinterpolate420()


got it now?
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Old 28th September 2004, 19:04   #27  |  Link
MGRip
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Thanks for spending the time on me, I highly appreciate your help
This script very helped me
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Old 29th September 2004, 10:53   #28  |  Link
Wilbert
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@scharfis,

Quote:
if it is yv12, use converttoyuy2(interlaced=true), but do NOT use reinterpolate420()
You can do that, but it might be better to use 1/2-1/2 upsampling instead of the 3/4-1/4. I will change my plugin so that you can compare it.

About PAL DV YV12:

Quote:
PAL always merges two chroma lines together within the PAL-Decoder for better chroma stability -> similar to interlaced YV12
The advantage is that PAL DV doesn't have this weird chroma placement. It occured to me that this implies that the conversion YV12->YUY2->YV12 (interlaced stuff) is lossless (which is not the case for mpeg1/mpeg2 4:2:0 as we all know).
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Old 29th September 2004, 12:48   #29  |  Link
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i wonder what kind of colormagic stuff does the new experimental vdub (1.6.0) - with internal dv decoder?:

(note:this is not exactly the same frame, maybe it is not visible on this snapshot, but the internal vdub decoder produces much nicer pic)

edit2: another comparision:


edit3: i just noticed, the vdub pixels in this 2nd example are 1:1 while liquid uses pal ar, but that does not affect chroma jaggies.
edit1: this is pal.
--------------------------------

scharfis_brain: actually i dont do chroma key very often, so i dont have any cool material to try at hand right now.

Last edited by smok3; 29th September 2004 at 13:42.
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Old 12th October 2004, 13:23   #30  |  Link
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Pinnacle DV500 PAL artefacts

I've a DV500 analog and DV firewire card. I've noticed the same artefacts and avisource(...).info() reports rgb32 and Pinnacle DV...
for the codec information. My source is PAL interlaced. I tend to edit in Premiere with a final target being a DVD.
What's the final conclusion from your thread? Should I use Wilbert's plugin or scharfis_brain's function? Which is faster and which one keeps all of the original data intact? Is ffdshow a better approach to decompressing? How good is it in terms of quality? I'm sorry if you think I should have gathered all this info from the thread, but I just need some kind of finalising statement to say what the best final method should be.

TIA
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Old 12th October 2004, 13:51   #31  |  Link
Wilbert
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Quote:
Should I use Wilbert's plugin or scharfis_brain's function?
I principle you can use both. But, scharfis said his one gives more pleasing results:

Quote:
my method using edge directed interpolation using tomsmocomp (tdeint(mode=1) should work, too) has a better chroma definition on diagonales.
Quote:
Which is faster?
Why don't you test this for us?

Quote:
which one keeps all of the original data intact?
Both.

Quote:
Is ffdshow a better approach to decompressing? How good is it in terms of quality?
Nope. The idea with ffdshow was that you could let it deliver YV12. You shouldn't do that in case of NTSC (cause DV 4:1:1 is not supported in AviSynth). For PAL, we should change ConvertToYUY2, because DV-YV12 is different as MPEG2-YV12 (the one AviSynth uses). I guess I can add that in my plugin.

So, no benefits if you use ffdshow.
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Old 12th October 2004, 20:01   #32  |  Link
KF
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time tests

Wilbert, this was just a quick test

scripts used:

Wilbert's
=========
loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\ReInterpolate420.dll")
avisource("myfile.avi").info()
ConvertToYUY2()
ReInterpolate420(interlaced=true)

Scharfis_Brain's
================
function reinterpolate420(clip x)
{
u=x.utoy()
v=x.vtoy()

u=u.separatefields().separatefields().selectevery(4,1,2).tomsmocomp(1,-1,0).assumefieldbased().weave()
v=v.separatefields().separatefields().selectevery(4,1,2).tomsmocomp(1,-1,0).assumefieldbased().weave()

ytouv(u,v,x)
}

loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\tomsmocomp.dll")

avisource("myfile.avi").info()
ConvertToYUY2()
reinterpolate420()

************************************************
time take by cce 2.67

time taken: 1:59:36 scharfis_brain

time taken: 1:53:43 wilbert

Original File size 96,503,820 bytes

Attached zipfile contains snapshots of the same frame.
Strange observations if you examine the yellow text.
Scharfis_Brain's method causes the colour of the text to be less by one pixel whilst Wilbert's method causes the colour to extend out of the text boundaries by one pixel.
I've had to crop the images in order to meet the upload file size restrictions.
But the portion shows what I mean.
Attached Files
File Type: zip pics.zip (134.2 KB, 205 views)

Last edited by KF; 12th October 2004 at 21:18.
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Old 12th October 2004, 20:07   #33  |  Link
scharfis_brain
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the att. does not work
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Old 12th October 2004, 20:16   #34  |  Link
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Having problems uploading zip file.

Having problems uploading zip file. When I edit the post it shows the attached file but I can't see any link
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Old 12th October 2004, 20:19   #35  |  Link
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Attachments work again. But bb has to approve them.
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Old 13th October 2004, 18:43   #36  |  Link
KF
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snapshots

As I can't see my attachment yet, I've managed to upload the full snapshots here.
http://www.raikmo.demon.co.uk/scharfis_brain.bmp
http://www.raikmo.demon.co.uk/wilbert.bmp

If you zoom 300% in photoshop and examine the yellow text you'll know what I meant in my earlier post.
Scharfis method produces chroma that doesn't fill the full text characters, i.e. less by 1 pixel. Whilst Wilbert's method produces bleeding by 1 pixel.
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Old 13th October 2004, 19:09   #37  |  Link
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Do NOT use the overlaid text as reference!

it is created using common chroma sampling, but DV uses another kind of chroma sampling!

wilberts method seems to has the correct chroma - placing, while my method seems to introduce a chroma upshift.

I'll try to correct this.
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Old 14th October 2004, 09:21   #38  |  Link
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Thanks Scharfis!
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Old 14th October 2004, 13:48   #39  |  Link
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Since the Pinnacle DV codec produces only RGB output is there any mileage in installing one of the other codecs, such as MainConcept's DV codec? Bearing in mind that I need to edit the avi files in Premiere prior to encoding in MPEG2.

Last edited by KF; 18th October 2004 at 15:13.
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Old 18th October 2004, 15:13   #40  |  Link
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Are the Mainconcept's codec or Canopus's codec better in terms of quality and speed of rendering, compared to Pinnacle's DV codec?
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