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Old 17th October 2018, 10:42   #53321  |  Link
ryrynz
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Enabling it absolutely destroys performance better used in other places, I do prefer to not have it ticked though. Prefer not to trade quality where possible.
Definitely the last thing to untick from that section.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:57   #53322  |  Link
Manni
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that's more than odd. there is nothing that should be able to push your CPU to full load when hardware decoding is used.
Thanks, you were absolutely right, something was wrong when I took my power readings: I didn't notice that Teamviewer was running in the background . That's why the CPU load was abnormally high. Because that didn't impact on my rendering times, I didn't think of it.

The GPU clock was maxed though, and the task manager performance monitor was correct by the way (checked with GPU-Z and CPU-Z). It usually is fairly reliable here.

I did more tests without Teamviewer running in the background (!), using Pacific Rim for a worst case scenario (as it's a 16/9 UHD HDR movie), the readings are normal (I think). I also used a kill-o-watt to measure the actual power use for each mode (rough average). Idle use is 93W.

DVXA2 NT: 18ms CPU 12% GPU 50% 230W
DVXA2 CB: 21ms CPU 30% GPU 75% 320W

D3D11 NT: 18ms CPU 15% GPU 55% 270W
D3D11 CB: 21ms CPU 30% GPU 75% 320W

I wish it was possible to use DXVA2 native as it's clearly the most power efficient mode but if I remember correctly there are banding issues with it. Both CB modes seem to use the same amount of power roughly, so unless there is a very strong reason to use DXVA2 CB, it looks like I'm going to use D3D11 native with manual picture shift, as I'll lose the black bars detection. I can't really justify 50W just for that convenience. I'll just have to select thelens memory on my iPad for each film, that's not too bad.

I have everything enabled with pixel shader with peak brightness measurements, restore highlights, no compromise, NGU High chroma upscaling, plus a 3D LUT, plus some enhancements, so it's a maxed out scenario. Still Asmodian's times with a 1050ti seem significantly lower, so I might try to disable some enhancements later to see if I get similar results.

Thanks again for pointing this out, it doesn't make any difference in real use but my results were wrong, as you pointed out.

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
He's saying clock speed is dynamic and ideally you need to log gpu speed and load for a good minute or so and calculate the average from that. Simpler tasks can show higher render times since the GPU can clock a lot lower.

Madshi, any chance we could get an average rendering statistic in the OSD? Ideally being able to see clock speeds on the OSD would be useful too.

D3D11 is quite a bit more efficient on my 1060.
Thanks for the translation/explanation. I'm aware that clocks are dynamic, and I had checked that, it wasn't the explanation

I agree that an average rendering stat in the OSD would be great.

Not sure why your D3D11 mode is more efficient, there is little to no difference here with CB and DXVA2 is significantly more efficient in native.
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Last edited by Manni; 17th October 2018 at 11:07.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:07   #53323  |  Link
huhn
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blackbar detection still runs even on a movie that doesn't need it so your comparison is not fair.

and don't you think it's odd that 70% GPU load is 21 ms and 50-55 %is 18 ms.

with DXVA native even measure peak brightness is disabled which is a couple of MS if it it used.

because i can't look into your system you have to make sure all use the same settings and no setting is used that the other mode can't do.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:23   #53324  |  Link
Manni
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blackbar detection still runs even on a movie that doesn't need it so your comparison is not fair.

and don't you think it's odd that 70% GPU load is 21 ms and 50-55 %is 18 ms.

with DXVA native even measure peak brightness is disabled which is a couple of MS if it it used.

because i can't look into your system you have to make sure all use the same settings and no setting is used that the other mode can't do.
I wasn't trying to do a fair comparison, only to show what results I get with my current settings if I simply change the mode.

I didn't use a 16/9 movie because I thought black bars detection wouldn't be active, I used it because it has more pixels to handle than a 2.40 title, hence worst case scenario re render times (as I said).

I'm only posting results for the settings I was currently using. I'll adapt settings depending on whether I decide to use native or copyback.

Measure peak brightness isn't disabled when running DXVA2 native, not sure where that comes from.

You are correct though that if I was to disable the CPU features used in CB that cannot be used in native, the render times would go down in CB. I guess I'll have to test that.
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Last edited by Manni; 17th October 2018 at 11:29.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:40   #53325  |  Link
huhn
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you can not call one mode more efficient if you didn't test them fair.

and did madshi change this in a new test build?
https://abload.de/img/itcomesfromherec1cmv.png
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:37   #53326  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
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you can not call one mode more efficient if you didn't test them fair.

and did madshi change this in a new test build?
https://abload.de/img/itcomesfromherec1cmv.png
Fair enough, the only thing I can say is that whatever CB is doing, with my settings, I can't justify the power use it causes as I only need it for black bars detection. So it's more efficient for me, unless/until I can see something I lose in PQ or functionality apart from black bars detection.

I'm using ordered dithering, and although disabled black bars detection shaves 2ms and drops the CPU use from 25% to 15% (MPC-BE only), that doesn't explain the whole difference.

My picture enhancements cost me around 2ms.

Re the DXVA limitation, I don't know if it's effective or not, I can only report that the measured brightness is displayed with DXVA native as well as with D3D11 (I checked). Maybe Madshi can explain if the text in the settings still applies and if it does how come the OSD shows the measurements with DXVA native.
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Last edited by Manni; 17th October 2018 at 12:48.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:48   #53327  |  Link
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it doesn't run with version 17. easily checked with the advanced OSD.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:57   #53328  |  Link
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The plot thickens! How come the 100% stimulus HDR pattern is reported as 10000 nits measured/average by MadVR when content metadata says maximum content light level is 1000 nits?
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:57   #53329  |  Link
Manni
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it doesn't run with version 17. easily checked with the advanced OSD.
I have no idea what you are talking about. As I said, measure peak brightness works just as well with DXVA2 as it does with D3D11, at least according to the OSD. Both the measured brightness and the histograms show. I'm using V17 with the latest test build.

https://imgur.com/a/ASXPoRq
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:01   #53330  |  Link
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create an empty folder called ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder.

but judging from your OSD limited information it is clearly working with that version.
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:05   #53331  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
You won't have any problems with 1080P or below on a 2GB card.
Sorry, I meant 4k UHD/1080p/720p contents on 4k/2k displays.
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but i can use more than 3 GB Vram with madVR by using ngu on chroma and luma by leaving the rest in madVR normal.

we are using PC you just recommend 4 gb because that's more common.
Thanks, that's not a good news for me
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:20   #53332  |  Link
Manni
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create an empty folder called ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder.

but judging from your OSD limited information it is clearly working with that version.
Yes, it's clearly working, as I said.

https://imgur.com/a/rql9XUw
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Old 17th October 2018, 13:24   #53333  |  Link
huhn
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4 shaders ok he change something in your test build.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:34   #53334  |  Link
Warner306
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Is that with copyback? Does using D3D11 native decoding change anything?
Already using D3D11 decoding. Highlight recovery is just really slow. It is not an issue with 24 fps content.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:43   #53335  |  Link
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No, I want to work with measured nits but I am wandering why MadVR generated BT.2390 curve (as measured) drifts gradually (and significnatly) away from HCFR reference BT.2390 curve and then returns to being spot-on at 70% but then gets clipped at 80-90% stimulus if we know the "formula" is defined in the papers and should be the same in HCFR and MadVR. Is the 80-90% clipping part of the formula to mantain some HDR effect with low peak brightness?

If translation to SDR was the cause, I expect the PQ curve tracking would drift as well but it is not.
There is likely something different about the BT.2390 used by HCFR and the BT.2390 used by madVR. madVR does additional processing, but testing luminance alone should yield a similar curve, I would assume. Your display is tracking PQ values accurately.

The brightness response of BT.2390 is also very different than straight PQ clipping because tone mapping deviates far off the original PQ curve. The SDR gamma curve would have to be contorted a bit to make it look right.

It would be hard to say what would be causing the differences without knowing if there are differences in the tone curves. I would try testing different mastering peaks (lower than 10,000) with target nits values in madVR that are above your display brightness because that's how most would use pixel shader. If I set my display to 175 nits and the target nits to 175 nits, the image is washed out. I don't think that is intended by BT.2390.

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hmm...there is no bar 16, there is a clip with 64-80 bars and there is a clip with C64-C111 gradient (0.0-0.07 nits). In the former I can, with great effort and in pitch black room notice that bars 76-80 are flashing, almost un-noticebly. In the gradient clip I can see the gradient becoming VERY slightly lighter, from left to right, than the bottom black part, so I am guessing there is no crush but also that near black gradation is so barely noticable - don't know if that's a problem and it should be more noticable.
I would doubt you are crushing black given the accuracy of your calibration. The 8-bit bars are represented along the bottom of the 8-bit clipping pattern. They are hard to see, but they are there.

Last edited by Warner306; 17th October 2018 at 15:54.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:53   #53336  |  Link
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The plot thickens! How come the 100% stimulus HDR pattern is reported as 10000 nits measured/average by MadVR when content metadata says maximum content light level is 1000 nits?
Bad metadata or lack of metadata. The measurement would be more accurate. The metadata is just available to assist with tone mapping.
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:56   #53337  |  Link
madjock
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As an HDR -> SDR user on an normal 1080p LG TV, is there anything to be gained by all these new settings and selections ?

Asking for an ignorant friend .
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Old 17th October 2018, 15:57   #53338  |  Link
Warner306
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I would check measure each frame and enable highlight recovery. You would gain by using both settings.
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Old 17th October 2018, 16:55   #53339  |  Link
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NGU medium vs NGU high is it really worth it? NGU high gives me 65% GPU load and rendering times ~ 22 ms. GTX 1050 ti.
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Old 17th October 2018, 17:18   #53340  |  Link
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On my 6gb 1060 I stick with medium. It's very subjective but most people aren't going to see a HUGE difference between medium and high and on lower end equipment where performance matters more it's certainly not worth it IMO.
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