AVI.Net problem

[weaver4]

I have used avi.net for a couple of years without a problem, but on the latest version I tried to backup Farscape. I was using XviD. When I try to run the resulting avi in Media Player Classic I get the following message. In media player it simply says the codec cannot be found. It will not play on my either my Philips or Pioneer SAPs. I tried the same movie with Dr Divx 2.0 and AGK without a problem.

Any ideas? Is this a Avi.net bug?

==============================================

Media Player Classic could not render some of the pins in the graph, you may not have the needed codecs or filters installed on the system.


Media Type 0:
--------------------------
Unknown

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Stream {E436EB83-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_Avi {E436EB88-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
formattype: TIME_FORMAT_NONE {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 0


Media Type 1:
--------------------------
Unknown

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Stream {E436EB83-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}
subtype: TIME_FORMAT_NONE {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
formattype: TIME_FORMAT_NONE {00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 0

[iNFO-DVD]

Well this is a new one. What XVID are you using? What size is the converted AVI? What settings did you use or can you send me the log file?

[weaver4]

I am using Xvid Version 1.1.0. The converted file size is 2.2Gig. Here is the log file.

===========================================
avi.NET v2.1.7.0
AMD Athlon(TM) XP 1800+ (1526MHz)

IN : E:\Movies\Ripped1\Movie\VTS_01_1.VOB
OUT: E:\Movies\Farscape.xan3.avi

ORIGINAL MPEG FILE
MPEG TYPE : 2
RESOLUTION : 720x480
ASPECT RATIO: 16:9
FIELD ORDER : TFF

CONVERTED AVI FILE
RESOLUTION : 640x368
DURATION : 3:03:24
FPS : 23.976
CODEC : XVID
PASSES : 1
METHOD : QUALITY BASED
QUANT : 3.0
AUDIO : MP3
SUBTITLES : NONE

SELECTED OPTIONS
DE-INTERLACE: NO
DE-GRAINED : NO
BRIGHTER : NO
HIGHER CROP : NO

TIME TAKEN [AUDIO]: 00:30:23
TIME TAKEN [VIDEO]: 04:16:05
ENCODE RATE 1/1 : 26 FPS

TIME TAKEN [TOTAL]: 04:49:05

[iNFO-DVD]

That's the problem, you've gone over 2GB.

[audioman]

Hi Weaver

Why do you choose single pass QUANT 3 instead of choosing a size based movie

Is this influence the final quality of your movie ?

Thanks for your answers

[weaver4]

The quality of single pass is every bit as good as the quality for two pass for the same filesize. The problem with single pass is that you don't know what the final size will be; all you know is that you will have the quality you want when it is complete.

The problem with two pass is that no one can guess at what the final size of the movie needs to be to get the quality that you want. For example the Movie Firewall will compress to 700k very nicely but the movie Casablanca takes 1.7g. Getting a good quality picture for a given bitrate is so subjective I don't think it can be done reliably. It depends on how much "black" is in the movie, how much action, how busy are the backgrounds, the resolution of the movie, and several other factors.

So, I just set the quanitizer to 3 (XviD) for movies that I want a good copy of and 2.5 for those movies I want an excellent copy of; and I am done with it.

[Sharktooth]

That's why a compression test is needed...

[iNFO-DVD]

The only use of a compression test in avi.NET would be if you wanted to do a single pass quant encode but to a specific size.

[Sharktooth]

also to predict quality->file size.
assuming q2 is the best possible quality (and bigger filesize), with a small comptest, quality can be predicted for nth pass modes too.

[audioman]

Originally Posted by weaver4

The quality of single pass is every bit as good as the quality for two pass for the same filesize. The problem with single pass is that you don't know what the final size will be; all you know is that you will have the quality you want when it is complete.

The problem with two pass is that no one can guess at what the final size of the movie needs to be to get the quality that you want. For example the Movie Firewall will compress to 700k very nicely but the movie Casablanca takes 1.7g. Getting a good quality picture for a given bitrate is so subjective I don't think it can be done reliably. It depends on how much "black" is in the movie, how much action, how busy are the backgrounds, the resolution of the movie, and several other factors.

So, I just set the quanitizer to 3 (XviD) for movies that I want a good copy of and 2.5 for those movies I want an excellent copy of; and I am done with it.

This is a very good explanation Weaver thanks a lot

I personally own a tvix and I really do not care about file size and I want a very good copy of my movies
( I just do not want to get a 4 gig avi movie file or else in that case it is no use encoding DVD to avi .... Better to make a dvd copy of the original movie )

Do you understand ?
Do you often get 4 go avi movie files ?

Thanks

[iNFO-DVD]

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

also to predict quality->file size.
assuming q2 is the best possible quality (and bigger filesize), with a small comptest, quality can be predicted for nth pass modes too.

To what goal? avi.NET is not AutoGK, I'm not going to do a comptest then with the results start changing resolutions, b-frames, quant thresholds or using different matrixes, I have standalone compatibility to worry about, top priority, I can only change certain things. Let's say I done a comptest, what would I then do with the results? Stop the encoding process and ask the user to choose a larger resolution because actually this movie compresses quite well, or vice versa, is that realistic? I can't see users being very happy about that.

After setting your desired output resolution and required target size, if after that a compression test would help, then I'd like to know how, if it would benefit the quality of the output file with what I have to work with then I'm definately interested.

[ricardo.santos]

I´m not an expert but im going to give my opinion about this comptest requests:

1- if you are not sure your choosen bitarate/size is not good, you can always convert the 5 or 10 minutes of the movie(dvd shrink in reauthor mode) before you convert your main movie. For example you have a 120 minute film that youre not sure will look good on 1200 megs, extract 10 minutes of the movie and set desired size as 120 megs, at the end you´ll have (i think) a good idea of what the movie will loook. No need for extra coding or requests. just do quick test yourself before your conversion.

if Info-dvd enables a "comptest" on avi.Net i think it would be a nice idea to leave it up to the user to decide to use it or not.

My 2 cents

[audioman]

Weaver

Can you answer my question please

Thanks a lot

[ricardo.santos]

Originally Posted by audioman

I personally own a tvix and I really do not care about file size

why are you encoding your movies to divx, if you have no file size problems just make a backup of your dvd.

[ricardo.santos]

Originally Posted by weaver4

The quality of single pass is every bit as good as the quality for two pass for the same filesize

???!!!????

are you saying the quality of a 1400 single pass conversion is the same as a 1400 2 pass conversion?

and then you say:

The problem with single pass is that you don't know what the final size will be

???!!!!

[unskinnyboy]

Originally Posted by iNFO-DVD

To what goal? avi.NET is not AutoGK, I'm not going to do a comptest then with the results start changing resolutions, b-frames, quant thresholds or using different matrixes, I have standalone compatibility to worry about, top priority, I can only change certain things. Let's say I done a comptest, what would I then do with the results? Stop the encoding process and ask the user to choose a larger resolution because actually this movie compresses quite well, or vice versa, is that realistic? I can't see users being very happy about that.

After setting your desired output resolution and required target size, if after that a compression test would help, then I'd like to know how, if it would benefit the quality of the output file with what I have to work with then I'm definately interested.

Standalone compatibility won't be affected by changing resolutions (unless it is > 720x???), b-frames (unless you go above 2) or quantizers (bitrate must be limited using VBV, but I reckon you already do that). Matrices will affect compatibility, so when swapping matrices based on the comptest results, you must limit yourself to matrices which are tested and proven to be standalone compatible - HVS series, EQM series etc.

You can't be asking the users to intervene in between because it will be annoying for them to sit and wait for the comptest results everytime. Any adjustments to the XviD settings or the avs script must be made internally, transparent to the end user. But then avi.NET runs the risk of looking like an AutoGK clone.

Originally Posted by ricardo.santos

I´m not an expert but im going to give my opinion about this comptest requests:

1- if you are not sure your choosen bitarate/size is not good, you can always convert the 5 or 10 minutes of the movie(dvd shrink in reauthor mode) before you convert your main movie. For example you have a 120 minute film that youre not sure will look good on 1200 megs, extract 10 minutes of the movie and set desired size as 120 megs, at the end you´ll have (i think) a good idea of what the movie will loook. No need for extra coding or requests. just do quick test yourself before your conversion.

if Info-dvd enables a "comptest" on avi.Net i think it would be a nice idea to leave it up to the user to decide to use it or not.

My 2 cents

Won't work. Compressing a 10 minute section of the movie won't give you an indication of how the movie will compress as a *whole*, unless the movie ambience look the same throughout the whole movie which is seldom the case for your typical movie. The strength of the comptest lies in the fact that you are covering the whole movie length by sampling the movie at regular intervals using the SelectRangeEvery() Avisynth function. Thus you are taking into account the compressibility of the movie as a whole.

[iNFO-DVD]

Originally Posted by unskinnyboy

Standalone compatibility won't be affected by changing resolutions (unless it is > 720x???), b-frames (unless you go above 2) or quantizers (bitrate must be limited using VBV, but I reckon you already do that).

Yes. As for the resolution I prefer to have a set resolution and work around that whereas AGK will change it if need be if the default 'Auto' setting is used. Just seems strange to me to do it like that but everyone has their own opinion on that and will obviously use whichever program suits their needs. As for the B-Frames, I play safe with just 1. My standalone player and my friends player (different chipset) do not like 2 B-Frames.

Originally Posted by unskinnyboy

tested and proven to be standalone compatible - HVS series, EQM series etc.

HVS and EQM, hmm, I might look into that, can you asure me these are pretty much 100% standalone compatible? I'll have to look deeper into that as using these may be a viable option if I can see any improvement in quality.

Originally Posted by unskinnyboy

But then avi.NET runs the risk of looking like an AutoGK clone.

Exactly......

[unskinnyboy]

Originally Posted by iNFO-DVD

HVS and EQM, hmm, I might look into that, can you asure me these are pretty much 100% standalone compatible? I'll have to look deeper into that as using these may be a viable option if I can see any improvement in quality.

I can only guarantee this much - that I have never heard anyone having issues with the above matrices, while I have heard people complain about others, namely Jawor's 1CD & 2CD. Now don't shoot me if some standalone on some corner of the earth refuses to play these matrices. Actually, most of the newer standalones shouldn't be having any issues playing anything you throw at them, except for 3-warppoint GMC. manono often mentions Oppo players as rather versatile. But I also understand that you are aiming for maximum compatibility which is why I hesitate to vouch for anything.

Only one way to know for sure - implement the feature and wait for user feedback.

[iNFO-DVD]

OK, thanks, I'll do some tests and try them on my mates player, that chokes on most things.

[weaver4]

Originally Posted by audioman

Weaver

Can you answer my question please

Thanks a lot

I am not sure I understand your question. But I will try.

I find that I get about a 1/4 to 1/5 compression when I use Xvid Q 3 or DivX Q 4. If I set the quantizer to 2.5 for Xvid or 3.5 for DivX I get compression of 1/3 to 1/4.

So sometimes I can get 4 movies on a DVD and sometimes only 3; depending on the length of a movie.