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Old 3rd June 2018, 20:00   #41  |  Link
tormento
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Untouched photo with better light from surface. Look "real" colors of fish as comparison.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 20:21   #42  |  Link
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Untouched photo with better light from surface. Look "real" colors of fish as comparison.
Oh boy, so the body of the fish is also shades of orange ? The one in the clip looks to have much darker (close to black) coloration between the white stripes. And like I said, that's how the colors came out - I didn't put any qualifier on the fish in that grade using the channel mixer. Is there maybe variability in the pattern/density of orange coloration within the same local population and/or between males vs females, adults vs juveniles ?
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Old 3rd June 2018, 20:28   #43  |  Link
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Oh boy, so the body of the fish is also shades of orange ? The one in the clip looks to have much darker (close to black) coloration between the white stripes. And like I said, that's how the colors came out - I didn't put any qualifier on the fish in that grade using the channel mixer.
Every fish is, of course, different. Anyway it’s definitely not yellow. My eyes, in Egypt, saw shades from pale orange to really dark one only. Forget Pixar Nemo...

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Old 3rd June 2018, 20:40   #44  |  Link
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Oh boy, so the body of the fish is also shades of orange ? The one in the clip looks to have much darker (close to black) coloration between the white stripes. And like I said, that's how the colors came out - I didn't put any qualifier on the fish in that grade using the channel mixer.
They're obviously two different type, and the one we're all talking about is definitely yellow, as supported by the google images and wiki.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 20:49   #45  |  Link
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. Forget Pixar Nemo...
Who ??
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Old 3rd June 2018, 21:35   #46  |  Link
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Another crack at it:

This is more balanced. Made me think I'm missing the point or don't try hard enough

Some of the equipment behind should be pure yellow, at least the pipe

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Old 3rd June 2018, 21:59   #47  |  Link
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Some of the equipment behind should be pure yellow, at least the pipe
Likely so, as came through in my first 'green-and-mirky' efforts:

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Quick stab at it with Resolve using the above strategy. Not sure what color the anemone in the foreground is supposed to be; as predicted, it proved difficult to swing it away from that aquamarine tinge completely.



Same again with a final light 'warm wash':



Maybe not accurate, but adds a bit more color contrast.
Maybe picked up with the qualifier on the anenome ; I'd have to check - not sure I saved the node workflow ('Power Grade') for that particular grade.

Best I can do anyway, and I get the impression that Tormento is not that interested pursuing what is a fairly involved/tailored grade workflow with unfamiliar software, and is hoping for a simpler/automated solution (by way of a plugin) that can be applied more generally in situations like this - so it's somewhat academic in this context. I just found it an interesting grading exercise. Cheers.
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Old 4th June 2018, 08:20   #48  |  Link
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Best I can do anyway, and I get the impression that Tormento is not that interested pursuing what is a fairly involved/tailored grade workflow with unfamiliar software, and is hoping for a simpler/automated solution (by way of a plugin) that can be applied more generally in situations like this - so it's somewhat academic in this context. I just found it an interesting grading exercise. Cheers.
Yes, that's what I was looking for. The easiest and the most complex task would be apply diving depth log to a video and, given depth, recreate color curves.

Edit: to give you a nice example of what I mean with "automatic", get Dive+ on AppStore and feed it with its own samples or your images. I dunno if it's black magic or what but it works damn well.
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Old 4th June 2018, 19:07   #49  |  Link
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....to give you a nice example of what I mean with "automatic", get Dive+ on AppStore and feed it with its own samples or your images. I dunno if it's black magic or what but it works damn well.
Checked out Dive+ on my iPhone 6. The 'Underwater Video Color Correction' component is in beta testing and requires signing up to participate, which I'm not inclined to do. Tested the automatic (one-click) 'Underwater Photo Color Correction' function though with a frame from your sample video. I wouldn't say 'magical' but it does a fairly decent job in that example. Better than my first 'mirky-green' effort in Resolve anyway.

Original Frame:



Corrected Frame:



Shame there's no option to tweak the colors further. Not being a diver I don't have other native images to test.

Have you tested the 'video color correction' component yourself ? If so, and you are happy with the results, why not use that ?
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Old 5th June 2018, 10:00   #50  |  Link
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Shame there's no option to tweak the colors further.
Examining the histogram, there's clearly been some reconstruction of the red channel, but there's scope there to push the balance a bit warmer - here doing so using just the 'Color Temperature/Tint' controls in Resolve, and a tad reduced saturation:



I'm still not sure what color the anemone is supposed to be.

Note also that a Dive+ logo gets put on the image. Still it's not bad for a freebie......assuming the 'video color correction' component produces comparable results.

Whether something similar could be implemented in AVISynth (by way of a scripted function/plugin) is beyond me. From what I've learned through this exercise, I have a sense that would require two parts - one (at it's core) a channel mixer (whether automated or not) to reconstruct the red channel as best (maybe guided by water depth absorption bias data) and then provision to adjust the color temperature. Feasible ? Only the AVISynth wizards here could say.
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Old 5th June 2018, 11:30   #51  |  Link
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Checked out Dive+ on my iPhone 6. The 'Underwater Video Color Correction' component is in beta testing and requires signing up to participate, which I'm not inclined to do.
Invitation code is DIVING PASSPORT
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Old 5th June 2018, 13:18   #52  |  Link
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As far as I can tell, still requires registration - no option I can see to just plug-in this 'Invitation Code'. Unless of course you want to give me your sign-in details . Or maybe test that sample clip yourself and post the results.

Thinking about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorBry View Post
Shame there's no option to tweak the colors further.
If you find that Dive+ does produce the kind of results you are hoping for, there are other video color correction apps that could prove useful for supplemental 'tweaking' - 'a total mobile iOS solution', so to speak.

VideoGrade is one that gets good reviews:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vide...492488712?mt=8

INCLUDED FILTERS

Exposure, Contrast, Vibrance, Temperature, Vignette, Recovery, Sharpness, Monochrome, Brightness, Saturation, Effects, Channel mixer, Tint, Hue, Levels, Bloom, Posterize, Rotation.

Plus....Real-time previews, color histograms, clipping previews and split modes for comparison


If all that's needed to tweak your Dive+ salvaged videos is some further color temperature adjustment, might be just the ticket. Nearly tried it myself but I couldn't bear the thought of parting with $CAN 10 for yet another app that I'll seldom if ever use.

Seems a better solution than hoping that someone will come up with an AVISynth function/plugin that does what you are looking for.......but you never know.
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Old 6th June 2018, 09:12   #53  |  Link
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If you find that Dive+ does produce the kind of results you are hoping for, there are other video color correction apps that could prove useful for supplemental 'tweaking' - 'a total mobile iOS solution', so to speak.
The fact is I will never use an app to correct video. There are too many factors, not least encoding, where you have no control over quality and I think is really far from x264.
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Old 6th June 2018, 13:17   #54  |  Link
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The top right triangle divided by the diagonal [containing the diver], would of course be skewing any histogram, color changes also based on distance from camera, not just the depth, so the view into the gloom will totally screw up any histogram.
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Old 6th June 2018, 20:42   #55  |  Link
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The fact is I will never use an app to correct video. There are too many factors, not least encoding, where you have no control over quality and I think is really far from x264.
Given the enthusiasm expressed for the Dive+ app and indication that you are signed-up for participation in the 'Underwater Video Color Correction' beta testing, it was reasonable to assume that you do use it. You stressed also that you are interested in an 'automated' solution, which this is. Not having tested the 'video' feature myself, I see then that, like the 'photo' component, there is no option to set the 'quality' of the encoded output, which I agree is disconcerting.

Still as a 'one-click' solution it would be interesting to see how well it performs under a range of underwater conditions/scenarios ('tropical' vs 'green' water, depth, visibility, intrinsic colorfulness of content/subject matter etc). If it does it indeed produce 'magical' results in cases more extreme than your sample, and without the aid of additional input parameters, one might speculate what algorithms it employs to achieve those outcomes and maybe try and replicate them.

Clearly in that one frame from your clip I tested it was doing more than just shifting the color temperature/tint, which is how most programs with 'Auto White Balance' features would treat it and likely fail. I had no success at all attempting to correct it with just the Color Temp/Tint controls in Resolve. It needed reconstruction of the red channel (in that particular case) and Dive+ achieved that to some degree - in my last attempt with Resolve, probably more. Applying the Channel Mixer to that end, I took the white strips on the fish as the (only) identifiable neutral reference. Fortunately that was in the foreground. Had the only reference been some fuzzy subject in the mid/far distance that was known to be white/grey I would have had more difficulty. As StainlessS pointed out:

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color changes also based on distance from camera, not just the depth, so the view into the gloom will totally screw up any histogram.
...and likewise RGB "picker" values, which I was going by to a large degree. So if Dive+ does indeed demonstrate magical results (and not just by luck in this case) on wider testing, how is it establishing neutral balance ? And is there similar 'diver-oriented' color correction software out there (with a higher level of control) or do most people use what tools are available in their favoured NLE, as it would appear:

https://www.tdisdi.com/natural-color...rwater-videos/
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Old 8th June 2018, 18:59   #56  |  Link
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Well curiosity got the better of me - I 'took the plunge' and signed-up for access to the 'video color correction' component of the Dive+ app. Don't have any other native under water clips, so I took samples from this YT video where the guy compared the original (ungraded) footage (shot on a GoPro) with corrections done in Final Cut Pro X

https://youtu.be/RTtS_baA5a8

Here are frame grabs from two of the original (ungraded) and graded segments. And the same corrected/graded with the Dive+ app and by me (as best) with Resolve.

Test #1:

Original:


Corrected FCPX:


Corrected Dive+:


Corrected Resolve:



Test#2


Original:


Corrected FCPX:


Corrected Dive+:


Corrected Resolve:


In short, I don't think Dive+ does a very good job. In these (and other samples from the same) it seems to arrive at an overly warmed balance with pretty poor exposure control. I think it just got lucky with that frame from your sample clip. Also it appears to grade each frame individually and there is a fair bit of fluctuation in the corrected outcomes within the same sequence - there's no option to select a representative frame for correction and apply to the entire clip. I'm not impressed.

That said, I'm not so impressed with the grading that was done there in Final Cut Pro X either. Seems to have fallen into the same trap I did when I first started playing with your sample clip in Resolve - thinking that if you push the color wheels (or whatever the equivalent tool is in FCPX) around enough and get the colored 'subjects of interest' to what they should be (or assumed/remembered to be), it will look good - or else 'better blue than green'.

I've come round to realizing that it is more important to get as close to neutral balance, as can be achieved, in the first instance. If it's done right, the true colors should more or less come through. Both grades I did there with Resolve adopted that strategy - balancing as best with the Channel mixer and then finer tuning with the color wheels. In hindsight, the first one (Test #1) could do with more work, especially that residual aquamarine tint on the sea bed, but I think the second is probably close to 'true'.

Also had a go at it with VirtualDub2, applying the same principle. Don't know what filters Shekh used specifically in the example he posted earlier. I've used:

*Channel Mixer (Emiliano Ferrari's version)
*Shekh's (Anton) very excellent '6-axis Color Correction' for secondary tuning.
*Levels and Gradation curves for levels and contrast (centre-relative)
*Unsharp Mask (Antons).

*Color Tools (1.4) scopes (Histogram, WFM, Vectorscope) for reference.

Two cracks at the Test#1 sample:



Bit more saturation of reds/orange:



Not bad for a first attempt....and possibly the most natural looking of them all - owing in part to partial desaturation of 'emerald' (one of the '6-axis' correction filter colors ) which targeted that 'aquamarine' tone on the sea bed very well. More tricky to treat that as cleanly in Resolve without ramifications.

Quite honestly Tormento, if you are not up for Resolve (which is a bit of a leaning curve), I'd have a look at VDub2. I could be wrong, but I think the chances of coming up with an AVS plugin for 'automated' underwater color correction are pretty remote. Closest I could imagine would be a Channel Mixer based function that maybe has generic presets for depleted channel reconstruction when there is blue or green bias, which can then be tweaked. There are just too many variables involved for automated correction IMHO and you're better off color correcting/grading on a case by case basis. With VDub2 you could also use Shekh's Master Blend filter for keying in subtle changes made with the 6-axis color correction filter.

In terms of 'free' software, there's also KDenLive, which I know is popular in the dive community, but I'm not sure if the Color Channel Mixer 'effect' has the secondary subchannels (RG, RB, BR, BG) where most of the work is done.
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Old 9th June 2018, 18:27   #57  |  Link
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..In hindsight, the first one (Test #1) could do with more work, especially that residual aquamarine tint on the sea bed...
Better result with Resolve:




Tweaked the Channel Mix to shift that residual 'aquamarine' tint more to cyan, making it easier to target for partial desaturation without impacting the rock colours. Still like the VDub2 result through. Less vivid than the Resolve grade, but probably more realistic.

@Shekh. Really like the '6-axis Color Correction' filter. I find it very intuitive. Would be even better if there were an option to apply to definable Shadow, Mid-Tone and Highlight luminance ranges, in addition to global. A 'Three-way' Colour Corrector so to speak. Any possibility of that ?
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Old 9th June 2018, 22:43   #58  |  Link
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Question to the divers amongst you,
What would a scene like above look like to you in real time, just as the untouched original, or do eyes/brain somehow magically correct for low reds.

If optimal correction was possible, should it then look as if all water had been sucked out of the scene, with everything bone dry,
or maybe slightly soggy, and with divers hovering around on jet packs, maybe, or something else, eh ?

EDIT: To below post
Quote:
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It honestly looks in real water like the unprocessed from camera. But the picture is only fraction of how it feels. Improved balance, contrast etc makes it more impressive and IMO this is great.
I see, where we increase perceived resolution we use the term Super Resolution, perhaps we should here coin the term Super Reality
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Old 10th June 2018, 00:03   #59  |  Link
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@Bryan: It may be good idea but it will definitely blow up the filter (more complex math and UI). So maybe another one. Never had success yet with shadow-highlight separation, maybe it is too subtle for me
Interesting that you applied channel mixer, I supposed that red-green and yellow-blue sliders achieve the same. Also levels... is exactly the purpose of top slider (intensity). Have you tried?
I'll try to pick some decent shots for experiments, if you want.

@StainlessS: It honestly looks in real water like the unprocessed from camera. But the picture is only fraction of how it feels. Improved balance, contrast etc makes it more impressive and IMO this is great.
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Old 10th June 2018, 05:24   #60  |  Link
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@Bryan: It may be good idea but it will definitely blow up the filter (more complex math and UI). So maybe another one. Never had success yet with shadow-highlight separation, maybe it is too subtle for me
T'was just a thought. Maybe could be applied through masked overlays, but that's not something I've really explored in Vdub. There's RGB (gradation) curves also, of course -not for the faint hearted.

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Interesting that you applied channel mixer, I supposed that red-green and yellow-blue sliders achieve the same
Yes, with that first 'green-cast' sample (Test#1), using the '6-axis' filter alone I can get pretty close to the color balance obtained with Channel Mixer + tweaked with '6-axis'. But with the 'blue-cast' clip with the blanked red channel that Tormento provided, no, at least not to end up with an orange finned fish It was the same in Resolve - pushing the color wheels to the extreme was not enough - always fighting an offset cast; the red channel needed reconstructing.

Also I wanted to see how well I could replicate the Resolve workflow using VDub.

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Also levels... is exactly the purpose of top slider (intensity). Have you tried?
I didn't in those examples, but I have now. Sometimes I just use curves when manipulating levels and contrast (S-curve) at the same time.

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I'll try to pick some decent shots for experiments, if you want.
Thanks, it would be interesting to test some good quality, native clips with strong casts/blanked red channels, ideally including sea life with known (and unambiguous) color characteristics, to see how well these methods hold-up.

Actually I just figured out an easier way to do the channel 'reconstruction' (redistribution) using what Resolve calls a 'Splitter-Combiner' node - basically splits the input into monochrome R,G, B channels with a separate node for each, so you can work on them independently, and combines them again. What I've done is to create blend (composite) overlays (layer nodes) between the monochrome G and R nodes and G and B nodes, with the G feed as the top layer and 'Add' as the blend mode. In that way, the redistribution of G channel luminance can be controlled by balancing the opacities (key gain in Resolve) of the two layer nodes. Fine tuning is then largely a matter of adjusting Color Temperature/Tint. Works very nicely and much easier than nudging individual sub-channel values.

Thinking about what I said earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorBry View Post
I could be wrong, but I think the chances of coming up with an AVS plugin for 'automated' underwater color correction are pretty remote. Closest I could imagine would be a Channel Mixer based function that maybe has generic presets for depleted channel reconstruction when there is blue or green bias, which can then be tweaked.
That's something that could applied in AVISynth (I think) - a Channel Mixer function (with sub-aqua absorption biases in mind) controlled via layer blend opacities.

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@StainlessS: It honestly looks in real water like the unprocessed from camera.
It's been many years since I last went diving (mostly Red Sea and Persian Gulf), but that unprocessed sample with the strong green cast (Test#1) is really how it would have looked to the diver? Maybe I never went deep enough. Is that where the phrase 'looking at the world through rose colored goggles' comes from ?
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