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Old 5th March 2014, 14:07   #24281  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
James, posting suggestions and recommendations is fine, but please make sure you mark these as your personal subjective opinion. You do sound a bit as if you your recommendations would be what everybody agreed on being the best settings. Which is definitely not the case here.
Of course.
Everything I post is IMO only.
I'm thinking about putting a big disclaimer in my signiture.. Maybe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I don't understand what you mean. madVR does support custom pixel shaders, if that is your question.
How?
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Old 5th March 2014, 14:11   #24282  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
How?
Just load them in MPC-HC like you would with its built-in renderer (Options -> Playback -> Shaders), madVR accepts them the same way.
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Old 5th March 2014, 14:11   #24283  |  Link
Boltron
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I really would love to use a sharpen filter but I use JRiver and can't find a way to do it. Madshi did mention one or twice that he could add a means to include a filter that wouldn't be too difficult to do. I can only hope.
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Old 5th March 2014, 14:20   #24284  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Just load them in MPC-HC like you would with its built-in renderer (Options -> Playback -> Shaders), madVR accepts them the same way.
Thanks, that's what I was doing.
I thought there was a way to load shaders directly to madVR.

P.S
madshi, I realize most people don't like the Ringing or other artifacts sharpening may give (I hate them too)... but not this one.
I'm not just saying that this is the best one there is when I say try it, I really mean it and urge people to try it (if they disliked sharpening before).

This post is IMO only.
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Old 5th March 2014, 14:32   #24285  |  Link
Shiandow
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Oh, ok, I didn't understand it this way. Alright, it could be interesting to test this. I might release a test build which uses your pre-processing.
That would be nice. I think it would improve the contrast slightly for people who are using 6bit output (or even lower). For 8 bit output it will only cause minute differences for very dark colours, so in that case it probably won't be really noticeable. But, at least in theory, it should fix any problems caused by the fact that smooth motion and dithering don't use the same gamma curve.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem that it will fix the 'blinking' problem and the more I think about that the less sense it seems to make. I can't understand why it seems to work regardless of smooth motion, but only when the frame rate doesn't match the display frame rate.
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Old 5th March 2014, 14:36   #24286  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
I thought that uncompressed Blu-Ray content can have debanding too?
i can show you a lot of bd with banding. anime suffer a lot from this issue. bd are just weak encoded high bitrate h264 stream (in best case)
Quote:
I took JINC because it is a newer algo . What do you think about using NNEDI3 for Chroma Upscaling and Lanczos for Luma Upscaling? Or is it prefferable to always use the same algorithm for both luma and chroma upscaling? (why is NNEDI3 not available for Luma Upscaling btw?)
it is but nnedi can only double the resolution. it can upscale 480p to 960 but it can't do 720 -> 1080.
not sure if any gpu can handle nnedi32 neurons 1080 -> 2160 but give it a try. you find it under image doubling.
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You say to use this on top of the scaling algorithms in madVR? Won t that cause any major artifacts?
it's sharping you never get this for free. same for debanding.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:02   #24287  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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What do you prefer for debanding for Blu-Ray content Madshi?

LOW/LOW
LOW/MID
LOW/HIGH
MID/LOW
MID/MID
MID/HIGH
HIGH/LOW
HIGH/MID
or
HIGH/HIGH
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:09   #24288  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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James, why do you prefer LANCZOS over JINC exactly?
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:15   #24289  |  Link
kasper93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
What do you prefer for debanding for Blu-Ray content Madshi?

LOW/LOW
LOW/MID
LOW/HIGH
MID/LOW
MID/MID
MID/HIGH
HIGH/LOW
HIGH/MID
or
HIGH/HIGH
FIGUREOUTYOURSELF/DONTBELAZY

You haven't even bother to test it... You can't do HIGH/LOW and others...

It's a matter of taste. The same with scaling. If there were "best" option madshi wouldn't have include those settings.

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Old 5th March 2014, 15:28   #24290  |  Link
seiyafan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
What do you think about using NNEDI3 for Chroma Upscaling and Lanczos for Luma Upscaling?
Can your 280x handle NNEDI3 to 4k?
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:30   #24291  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
James, why do you prefer LANCZOS over JINC exactly?
I have done a bunch of testing with patterns and movies,
The remaining aliasing (ever so small) with Lanczos translates to better detail at higher frequency, whether Jinc will blur the detail.

Jinc will look better (smoother) on perfect diagonals only, on anything else it looks just like Lanczos.
Also, Lanczos 8 uses less juice than Jinc 3.

For Upscaling I use: Lanczos 3 + AR (no LL).
For Downscaling I use: Catmull-Rom (no LL).

This post is IMO only.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 5th March 2014 at 15:39.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:36   #24292  |  Link
seiyafan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
you can have LAV using the iGPU while madVR is using the dGPU (this is assuming you have a motherboard/BIOS that allows simultaneous use).
That's interesting. I have 4770k but Quicksync option shows up as inactive, I never knew that has something to do with motherboard.

I wonder if it's possible for Quicksync to do deinterlacing, because if I give the job to MadVR it would need twice the rendering power since it doubles the frames per second.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:45   #24293  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Can your 280x handle NNEDI3 to 4k?
Yes. Keep in mind that I am talking about Chroma Upscaling NNEDI3@32, NOT talking about image doubling NNEDI3
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:47   #24294  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
FIGUREOUTYOURSELF/DONTBELAZY

You haven't even bother to test it... You can't do HIGH/LOW and others...

It's a matter of taste. The same with scaling. If there were "best" option madshi wouldn't have include those settings.

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Chill out a little dude.
I am NOT asking for what is better. I am specifically asking Madshi what he prefers when playing 1080p Blu-Ray content.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:48   #24295  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Jinc will look better (smoother) on perfect diagonals only, on anything else it looks just like Lanczos.
This post is IMO only.
Interesting
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Old 5th March 2014, 16:16   #24296  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
I wonder if it's possible for Quicksync to do deinterlacing, because if I give the job to MadVR it would need twice the rendering power since it doubles the frames per second.
Whatever you use for deinterlacing, it should always double the number of frames.
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Old 5th March 2014, 16:44   #24297  |  Link
iSunrise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
Chill out a little dude.
I am NOT asking for what is better. I am specifically asking Madshi what he prefers when playing 1080p Blu-Ray content.
He has a point, though, and a very good one. Why exactly would that help you, when madshi doesnīt have access to a 4K projector? And even if he did, he probably doesnīt have the same model you do, which also does make a difference.

Why donīt you just test it yourself, instead of posting 20 posts asking everyone about their respective opinions when everyone of us has a completely different setup than you do. Everyone has a different taste, too, which you can see when you actually followed our dithering discussion. I see that with you a lot. If a new build and feature comes out, you always ask for "the best" settings, but you never actually provide an opinion yourself. Itīs like you donīt even exist and just copy blindly what other users prefer, instead of making up your own mind about it. I totally donīt get that at all. Especially since your high-end 4K projector should make some differences really obvious and make the differences clearly visible.

Personally, on a 4K device, NNEDI3 luma doubling should always be enabled in your case, NNEDI3 chroma upscaling always second. And Iīm not even talking about NNEDI3 chroma doubling, because most of us donīt have a 4K device. Left are Lanczos, which is the sharpest with side-effects, while Jinc is sometimes more accurate, also with side-effects, so itīs all a matter of preference and the content that you feed madVR.

Last edited by iSunrise; 5th March 2014 at 17:12.
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Old 5th March 2014, 17:46   #24298  |  Link
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Hi guys (and maybe gals, it's hard to tell)... I have a question regarding gamma correction and calibration settings. I have this info from Monitor Asset Manager's Real-time EDID:

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.50
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.340
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.690
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.138 - By 0.038
White point (default).... Wx 0.282 - Wy 0.297
Additional descriptors... None

I was wondering if any of this info can or should be used in the device calibration settings for gamma.... and if so, what should be the corresponding gamma correction settings?

I have tinkered with a calibration setting of pure power curve of 2.5 gamma and pure power curve 2.35 in the gamma correction... but I wasn't happy with the results. I have also tried other combos, and currently have both set at disabled (again not happy with the results). I don't have access to calibration gear, but thought maybe I could get better results if I understood what my TV's gamma is (pure pc, bt.709, etc. etc.) and what the target should be for gamma correction.

I have included screen shots of the two settings in question if there is any confusion about what I am talking about





Thanks in advance,

QB
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Old 5th March 2014, 18:22   #24299  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltron View Post
I really would love to use a sharpen filter but I use JRiver and can't find a way to do it. Madshi did mention one or twice that he could add a means to include a filter that wouldn't be too difficult to do. I can only hope.
Maybe sooner or later, but not in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiandow View Post
Unfortunately it doesn't seem that it will fix the 'blinking' problem and the more I think about that the less sense it seems to make. I can't understand why it seems to work regardless of smooth motion, but only when the frame rate doesn't match the display frame rate.
I'm not 100% sure about the exact cause of the blinking problem, either. I *think* it's just the irregular interval at which the dithering pattern changes, but I'm not totally sure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Whatever you use for deinterlacing, it should always double the number of frames.
Exactly. Unless we're talking film content, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
Hi guys (and maybe gals, it's hard to tell)... I have a question regarding gamma correction and calibration settings.
Maybe someone else can help out. This is not my area of expertise.
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Old 5th March 2014, 18:44   #24300  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.87.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* error diffusion now uses DirectCompute (DX11 GPU needed) instead of OpenCL
* added fast and reasonably high quality "ordered dithering" algorithm
* added "rendering\dithering" settings page with many new options
* new default dithering is now ordered dithering instead of random dithering
* madTPG now always uses monochromatic ordered dithering
* fixed: #107: XySubFilter: reducing CPU queue size during playback -> crash
* fixed: #112: 120fps clip resulted in 23Hz being selected instead of 60Hz
* fixed: #119: installation resulted in "might not have installed correctly"
* fixed: #123: XySubFilter: Nearest Neighbor/Bilinear distorted subtitles
* fixed: #125: forced film mode with unsupported FOURCCs: graphical corruption
* fixed: #133: XySubFilter: opaque black box when smooth motion was enabled
* fixed: #136: when playback is stopped, madVR now always turns the video off
* fixed: #137: Nearest Neighbor/Bilinear has problems with post-resize shaders
* fixed: #138: smooth motion FRC flickered when using Nearest Neighbor
* fixed: #145: DCI-P3 was using an incorrect white point
* fixed: #155: screeshots sometimes had an added black border
* fixed: #159: speciying DCI-P3 as the calibrated gamut -> green screen
* fixed: #160: corruption with uncompressed 4096x2304 v210 in AVI
* fixed: #161: YUV 4:4:4 videos with weird resolutions crashed madVR
* fixed: #165: overlay mode restricted madVR to single player window
* fixed: #167: dithering produced dithering noise on pure black areas
* fixed: #169: dithering produced dithering noise on pure white areas
* fixed: #170: Overlay mode sometimes unnecessarily cleared GPU gamma ramps
* fixed: Overlay mode applied 3dlut and gamma ramps in wrong order
* fixed: crash reporting didn't catch exceptions in private threads, anymore
* fixed: crash when using XySubFilter with small GPU queue size
* fixed: DVD navigator was not released properly by madVR
* fixed: Run/Seek hooks also affected secondary DirectShow graphs
* fixed: profile key shortcuts only worked for "scaling" profiles
* fixed: full range YCbCr input produced slightly incorrect colors
* reduced Overlay mode graphical corruption when resizing media player
* exclusive -> windowed switch now shows a black frame instead of an old one
* removed XySubFilter auto-loading functionality, it's now XySubFilter's job
* disabled resolution based DCI-P3 auto detection
* changed default luma doubling value to 32 neurons
* display bitdepth can be be set to as low as 3bit (just for testing)
As you can see, this build contains a LOT of bugfixes. There are still some bugfixes left to do (see bug tracker), but I wanted to release a new official build with the new dithering algorithms now. There'll probably be a v0.87.6 in the near future with some more bugfixes.

Please note that there's also a new XySubFilter build which I recommend to use. See here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168282
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