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Old 17th February 2016, 02:36   #36221  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I think image doubling is accurate.
Exactly. Those upscalers can only be used for doubling, so it's apt.
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Old 17th February 2016, 09:03   #36222  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Have you had a chance yet to double and triple check that older builds definitely didn't have this problem?

-------

The latest LAV nightly build now "fully" supports 3D Blu-Rays, just like 2D Blu-Rays, including playlists, seamless branching etc. The only thing still missing is 3D subtitles, for those that may need it. Here's the download:

https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/

Thanks to nevcairiel, once again!!
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Old 17th February 2016, 10:30   #36223  |  Link
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Quote:
The latest LAV nightly build now "fully" supports 3D Blu-Rays, just like 2D Blu-Rays, including playlists, seamless branching etc. The only thing still missing is 3D subtitles, for those that may need it. Here's the download:

https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/

Thanks to nevcairiel, once again!!
Guys you are great! Thx to nev and madshi for your hard work!
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Old 17th February 2016, 11:44   #36224  |  Link
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Madshi, anything useful in the ChromaReconstructor 3.0 update that can be applied to madVR?
Also, any chance of other options improving soft? Placebo soft? Soft AR? The sharp options seem pretty unusable as far as accuracy goes.
Would like something that's a mix of what Jinc AR and Reconstruction gives me essentially.
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Old 17th February 2016, 13:30   #36225  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That's somewhat strange. If you create a debug log with those queue sizes I can have a look. Maybe I'll see some sort of bug.
Okay, here is a log. I hope I did it right. I went FSE, activated the OSD, started playback, and turned off the OSD a few seconds in after about 12 dropped frames had occurred.

http://stereodude.net/madVR_Stereodude_frame_drops.7z
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Old 17th February 2016, 13:40   #36226  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I can image double 720p24 and then scale it down to 1080p, but 720p60 was a no go last time I tried it. I've since gotten a PCIe 3.0 motherboard, gone all x64, and now there are more possible doubling routines so maybe I should revisit. However, with the previous options and the fact I didn't have any source of 720p24 content (it's not on Blu-rays or broadcast/OTA HDTV) downscaling after doubling was not common for me.

I guess that leads to an interesting question in the case of 720p -> 1080p. Is image doubling with a super -xbr flavor and then downscaling with one of these new sharper routines preferable to straight Jinc AR upscaling? I'll have to test the render times for this later when I get home.
Okay, so I tried this. A R9 380 can image double 1080p60 and downscale and keep the render times under 16ms. NNEDI3 is still pretty hard to do. 16 worked okay with catmull-rom downscaling (AR +LL). SuperXBR doubling with SSIM 2D downscaling was no problem. I didn't try every possible permutation since it was late last night when I was trying it.
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Old 17th February 2016, 13:57   #36227  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I've since gotten a PCIe 3.0 motherboard, gone all x64, and now there are more possible doubling routines so maybe I should revisit.
Do you think there is still a copyback with NNEDI3 on AMD?
If no, PCIe 3.0 shouldn't really have an influence on madVR.
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Old 17th February 2016, 14:58   #36228  |  Link
IanD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
nevcairiel just released a new nightly LAV build with:

Direct Blu-Ray 3D playback support

Currently limited to only support playing SSIF files directly.
Does MadVR support outputting 3D SSIF as SBS/OU/interlaced under XP?

I can play 3D SSIF using MadVR and LAV under XP, but couldn't find any options for SBS/OU/interlaced output. I don't have a 3D TV that accepts frame packing to test out 3D playback and it only seems to render as 2D on a standard monitor.

I can get Stereoscopic Player (Trial) to output SBS/OU/interlaced/anaglyph from 3D SSIF under XP, so it is possible, but it's commercial ware.
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Old 17th February 2016, 15:15   #36229  |  Link
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3D output options are in: Devices > [DeviceName] > Properties
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Old 17th February 2016, 15:27   #36230  |  Link
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3D output options are in: Devices > [DeviceName] > Properties
Thanks for that, but no matter what option I select, the output doesn't change from a 2D presentation (with subtitles) of the 3D SSIF. I guess it is just not setup for XP use.
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Old 17th February 2016, 15:51   #36231  |  Link
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@madshi:

Will there be an option to customize the color of the seekbar in FSE mode when we arrive madvr 1.0? Are there plans to support chaptermarks? That would be really cool, so one vote from me! :-D
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Old 17th February 2016, 16:27   #36232  |  Link
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Do you think there is still a copyback with NNEDI3 on AMD?
If no, PCIe 3.0 shouldn't really have an influence on madVR.
I'm not sure. My understanding following along with this thread was that AMD cards were affected by PCIe bus bandwidth more so than Nvidia. I built a new HTPC for other reasons, not to get PCIe 3.0, but I thought that it would help a little.
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Old 17th February 2016, 16:55   #36233  |  Link
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bottom line is I guess you have to decide for yourself if you want everyone to go with the 1 step solution (or at least be more limited in your options compared to what leeperry wants) or leave room in case others want additional tweaking.
Nicely put, anyway I just ran comparisons on 16:9 1440*1080p30 video content using RS chroma + SR@1 for both chroma & luma and it's matter of picking your poison between CR AR LL + sxbr25(thick and ringy) or NNEDI3(already too sharp to use in combination with luma SR@1) or NEDI(not very detailed but still sharper than Jinc upscaling) or SSIM 1D(2D is too GPU intensive for my HD7850 and so is Jinc downscaling) + NEDI or plain Jinc AR upscaling(with a slight zoom in order to trigger SR+SSIM).

If the ultimate goal is a "set and forget" solution to mVR's config then a sharpness strength for SSIM would be the ideal choice IMO as it surely does a lot of good but as much as extreme details extraction might be great for PIP it can easily look too digital on double SD/1080p downscaled to 1080p.

Last edited by leeperry; 17th February 2016 at 18:21.
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Old 17th February 2016, 18:20   #36234  |  Link
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
If the ultimate goal is a "set and forget" solution to mVR's config then a sharpness strength for SSIM would be the ideal choice IMO as it surely does a lot of good but as much as extreme details extraction might be great for PIP it can easily look too digital on double SD/1080p downscaled to 1080p.
I guess in such cases it might make most sense to have such a strength option in profiles so you can specify your set & forget sharpness for different kinds of resolutions (+scaling factors?)
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Old 17th February 2016, 18:31   #36235  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I'm not sure. My understanding following along with this thread was that AMD cards were affected by PCIe bus bandwidth more so than Nvidia. I built a new HTPC for other reasons, not to get PCIe 3.0, but I thought that it would help a little.
what ever the problem ist it is not the PCI 3.0 connector anymore. it's barely used.
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Old 17th February 2016, 19:18   #36236  |  Link
leeperry
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I guess in such cases it might make most sense to have such a strength option in profiles so you can specify your set & forget sharpness for different kinds of resolutions (+scaling factors?)
right on
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Old 18th February 2016, 01:55   #36237  |  Link
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Hey madashi, I sometimes get an "exclusive mode failed" error. Sometimes it works sometimes not. I have attached a log file. Maybe you could look into it if you find some time. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aw95mu8hj3...20log.rar?dl=0
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Old 18th February 2016, 20:37   #36238  |  Link
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Wow! SSIM 2D + AR + LL downscaling looks much better than Catmull-Rom + AT + LL downscaling in 720p videos when Luma Doubling + Quadrupling is used! The result is sharper and looks much closer to 1080p content. In fact, with above configuration + other highest quality settings), 720p with madVR looks better than 1080p with VLC Media Player or MPC-HC with LAV & EVR!

More huge thanks to madshi for madVR and Shiandow for SSIM!

BTW, what does madVR stand for? I know "mad" comes from "madshi", but what about VR? Video Renderer? What does "madshi" stand for?
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Old 18th February 2016, 21:31   #36239  |  Link
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Wow! SSIM 2D + AR + LL downscaling looks much better than Catmull-Rom + AT + LL downscaling in 720p videos when Luma Doubling + Quadrupling is used!
I can't see any difference between using SSIM or Bicubic125 when doubling 720p and downscaling to 1080p.

Of course, for 4k downscaling SSIM rocks. The only 4k stuff I have are the free demos but SSIM makes them look 4k on my 1080p screen.
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Old 18th February 2016, 22:17   #36240  |  Link
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I can't see any difference between using SSIM or Bicubic125 when doubling 720p and downscaling to 1080p.

Of course, for 4k downscaling SSIM rocks. The only 4k stuff I have are the free demos but SSIM makes them look 4k on my 1080p screen.
I think it depends on other settings and the actual content. I haven't checked out Bicubic125, but SSIM did perform better than Catmull-ROM.

I use:
- MPC-HC + latest LAV Filters (DXVA2 Copy-Back Acceleration), - 10bit+ bit-depth on display with 12bit output
- 0-255 range
- 3DLUT
- Reduce Banding Artifacts (top - low, bottom - medium, but depends on content),
- NNEDI3 64n + SuperRes (strength = 3) for Chroma Upscaling
- NNEDI3 32n for both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling (Luma Only, both set to Always)
- SSIM 2D + AR + LL for Image Downscaling, Jinc + AR for Image Upscaling
- SuperRes (strength = 3) for Image Refinement (Refine the image After every 2x upscaling step)
- Error Difussion Dither (Method 2 + Use Colored Noise + Change Dither for Every Frame)
- Nothing selected/ticked in Trade Quality for Performance
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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