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Old 18th November 2012, 16:47   #12981  |  Link
nevcairiel
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The renderer will upscale content using the GPU, a decoder does not upscale.
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Old 18th November 2012, 18:18   #12982  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
BTW, I was wondering how you'd feel about adding post-processing capabilities?
First and foremost I'm developing a decoder, not a post-processor. I only made an exception for YADIF Deinterlacing and certain pixel format conversions because those are essential for working playback.
The same thing essentially applies to the mixer in LAV Audio, in certain configurations its essential to be able to remix your audio, or you may end up hearing only half the channels.

If i ever get really bored (yeah, right), it may be a possibility to either write a separate post-processing filter, and/or maybe add AviSynth or VapourSynth support. At this time, AviSynth is just a mess to work with and the 8-bit limitation is just so outdated, and VapourSynth is still too much in flux to look into it properly.

In any case, don't hold your breath.

PS:
I may be persuaded to expose libavfilter based filters, if someone wants one of those desperately, it could be done without much pain or effort. However, i know that maybe only 2-3 of those are even real-time optimized, many others are just very slow, and i also know that many people prefer different filters then the ones available there.
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Old 18th November 2012, 18:21   #12983  |  Link
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1) playing dvds wrongly flagged I guess could trigger the deinterlacing even when not needed?
If its wrongly flagged, how would it know any better? It has to trust these flags. So yes.

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2) Is there a way to know while watching a dvd if Lav is deinterlacing or not?
No.
Well technically you can see if the renderer gets 25/30 or 50/60 frames, which might be an indication, but nothing obvious.

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3) Is there a way (or colud possibly be implemented) to turn deinterlacing on and off of the fly via shortcuts keys like MadVR in the cases I'm 100% sure what I'm playing is progressive without having to go to Lav panel and tick "progressive"?
There is not. Maybe in the future.

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4) If in a dvd there is mixed material (interlaced and progressive) the interlacer will adapt to the new content or is it dumb?
If the content is properly flagged, it will adapt.

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5) I find Lav deinterlacer less heavy than MadVR one, do you have any idea why? Aren't they both hardware?
Implementation differences, who knows.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 18th November 2012 at 18:27.
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Old 18th November 2012, 19:21   #12984  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
First and foremost I'm developing a decoder, not a post-processor. I only made an exception for YADIF Deinterlacing and certain pixel format conversions because those are essential for working playback.
The same thing essentially applies to the mixer in LAV Audio, in certain configurations its essential to be able to remix your audio, or you may end up hearing only half the channels.

[..]

AviSynth is just a mess to work with and the 8-bit limitation is just so outdated
for the detailed reply!

Well, yeah, downmixing 5.1 to stereo does require custom coeffs(I personally love the Logic7 matrix, that I'm currently using in ffdshow with fantastic results) together with VST plugins processing in order to turn surround stereo into binaural audio for headphones use

The same way anyone caring at least a bit about 5.1 audio will have to process each individual channel for bass management/delay and Digital Room EQ if he doesn't want to listen to his walls and furniture("can you move a bit to the left, I can't hear the cymbal properly kthx" ).

So I realize that you don't want to get into the post-processing dark side, but it really is mandatory for whatever 5.1 or stereo/binaural audio(God bless ffdshow in 32fp!) and I believe that Avisynth can actually output more than 8bit these days, it's just that the Avisynth filter of ffdshow is unable to take advantage of it and the coder who worked on it has gone AWOL

And if there's a place to do levels conversion, flipping/mirroring, frames interpolation, audio DRC/VST processing, it's more in the decoder than in the VR/audio drivers(a RME board costs +$500, uses sloppy hardware and is useless for lossless HDMI audio) IMHO.

I realize that at this point, you're in the same position as madshi providing the best software for the job *FOR FREE*. madshi has made clear that at some point he will release a shareware version that will provide more advanced features for a fee....so how about you do that too? Make a $35 version that supports all kinds of audio goodies in 32fp/64fp and 10/16bit video processing?

Paying whiners won't look like spoiled brats anymore and you won't be wasting your precious time providing technical support for free either....anyway, it's just an idea but the decoding/splitting parts of your package both seem fully matured, all it'd need is additional audio/video processing IMHO and I'm sure that your most demanding end-users are well aware that well written code doesn't grow on trees.

All this said, I can do all my 32fp binaural stuff in ffdshow audio and the BenQ W1070 pj I'll be buying very soon provides 12bit mirroring in its OSD, so all I really need at this point is >8bit levels conversion and frames interpolation in order to magically turn 29.97@59.94fps...so I guess that all I would personally need is an Avisynth wrapper that would support P016, and I'm pretty sure that this would make a lot of other OCD'ed videophiles happy to pay for your software as well

Last edited by leeperry; 18th November 2012 at 19:52.
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Old 18th November 2012, 19:54   #12985  |  Link
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And if there's a place to do levels conversion, flipping/mirroring, frames interpolation, [...], it's more in the decoder than in the VR [...]
I strongly disagree.
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Old 18th November 2012, 20:02   #12986  |  Link
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Well, doing it all in ffdshow(currently being the only place where it's possible to do levels conversion/mirroring/avisynth scripting) allows the use of automatic rules. I believe this kind of automatic profiles and video-processing has more its place in LAV/ffdshow than in mVR. I'm not talking about one-shot processing, more like automatic profiles based on resolution and frame rate. And done in P016, it won't temper w/ the PQ when feeding mVR.

Anyway you two are the ones in charge, at this point I'm mostly begging for practical solutions to real world issues

Last edited by leeperry; 18th November 2012 at 20:11.
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Old 18th November 2012, 20:25   #12987  |  Link
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Thanks for your answers Nev.

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If i ever get really bored (yeah, right), it may be a possibility to either write a separate post-processing filter (...)
Hope you will get bored really soon
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Old 18th November 2012, 20:26   #12988  |  Link
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Hope you will get bored really soon
Doubtful thats going to happen before my retirement in 40 years.
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Old 18th November 2012, 20:34   #12989  |  Link
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Well, all roads lead to Rome so all we end-users really need is madshi and nev looking into solutions for P016 video processing. We have a decoder, a renderer and nothing to put in between..not even levels conversion for sloppy encodes

FFdshow can process audio in 32fp so this is a non-issue IMHO, and there's always AC3Filter's EQ for 5.1 processing...it sounds pretty bad but technically it works.

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Old 18th November 2012, 21:09   #12990  |  Link
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Well, all roads lead to Rome so all we end-users really need is madshi and nev looking into solutions for P016 video processing. We have a decoder, a renderer and nothing to put in between..not even levels conversion for sloppy encodes
Yeah, so lets bring some more folks and try to convince nev that we need vapoursynth wrapper.
Alternatively someone may try to hack ffdshow and remove from it everything that is not related to raw processing filter and avisynth scripts... (but I doubt we'll have P016 with this solution)

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Old 18th November 2012, 22:36   #12991  |  Link
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Here is another option:

Actually write something yourself. :P
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Old 18th November 2012, 22:57   #12992  |  Link
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oh yah sure, you can learn to code like a god overnight, piece of cake! It's not like it would take years/decades before you'd make something that would even work

which sends us back to my original proposition of making a shareware version that would go deeper into the P016 rabbit hole.....some end-users crave advanced processing, let them pay for it. I'll be most happy to pay for mVR and LAV because w/o mVR I still would be stuck w/ HR/EVR and atm there simply isn't any way whatsoever to do P016 video processing

Anyway I've made my point, you've made clear that you didn't care too much, madshi disagrees with what I said so that's me hoping that he will soon allow custom levels conversion and provide N-1 frame access in the forthcoming HLSL PS script support of mVR so third party coders will be able to write frame interpolation scripts

Too bad the horsepower of my Q9450 will be rendered useless and all the load will be put on the GPU, forcing everyone interested to buy a GTX660/660Ti(or whatever AMD substitute) basically.

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Old 18th November 2012, 23:05   #12993  |  Link
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oh yah sure, you can learn to code like a god overnight, piece of cake! It's not like it would take years/decades before you'd make something that would even work
Still sooner then me being really interested in it.

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which sends us back to my original proposition of making a shareware version that would go deeper into the P016 rabbit hole.....some end-users crave advanced processing, let them pay for it. I'll be most happy to pay for mVR and LAV because w/o mVR I still would be stuck w/ HR/EVR and atm there simply isn't any way whatsoever to do P016 video processing
I have no interest in selling my software. Selling means people have expectations (even more so then the people with entitlement-issues today), and i don't want to deal with that shit. Not to mention that there is the issue of LAV being build based on GPL libraries, which prohibits this anyway.

Anyway, unless someone manages to pay me enough so i can quit my dayjob, no amount of money will give me more time.
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Old 18th November 2012, 23:33   #12994  |  Link
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I would also like to see (pay for) Vapoursynth/Avisynth support with perhaps condition based loading. It would be awesome to see MadVR tapping into these settings as well for a full config based on filename/resolution/bitrate etc.

I think many of us are looking to retire FFDshow and Avisynth from our toolkits now. Clsid asked about a DirectShow filter for Vapoursynth and TheFluff said it would be fairly easy to implement for someone competent with DirectShow, surely someone will do it eventually.

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Old 19th November 2012, 02:27   #12995  |  Link
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Well, keep it free and simple. Cause I hate to break out IDA to figure out the protection. I don't see how such a product could pay reliably as much as a regular day job. GPL hin oder her, the market for directshow decoders is tiny. People buy a computer with a BD drive, fire up PowerDVD, which plays about anything and that is that. LAV-what?

As for advanced post-processing, I am missing audio DRC like in VLC (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46020#p256565). Call me nuts, but sometimes after a long night of work I feel like watching a movie I have seen a 1000 times like Die Hard at 03:00am. But dozing off without DRC is asking for trouble. And then the first guy gets shot. The mpc-hc DRC code works, but why settle for less when you can have a nice RMS envelope follower DRC.

Of course I could use the mpc-hc DRC or just VLC but I like the clean concept of LAV.

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Old 19th November 2012, 03:04   #12996  |  Link
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All this talk of post-processing filters/scripts aside, I would really appreciate some sort of crossfeed function for headphone use, even if it's not possible to implement something like Dolby Headphone or some other form of HRTF/binaural processing.

As I understand it, crossfeed would mostly be an extension of the mixing and delay functionality that already exists inside LAV Audio. (downmix to stereo, then apply crossfeed)
The only other option is very expensive amplifiers like the SPL Phonitor.


I think the crossfeed level is simply the amount of left-channel audio that leaks into the right, and vice-versa.

Speaker angle would be controlled by the amount of delay applied to the crossfeed? (because left-channel audio hits your left ear before your right)

I'm not sure how you would control the "center" mix though. (how this sort of thing works is beyond me really)

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Old 19th November 2012, 07:28   #12997  |  Link
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I wonder if it would be possible to do something about the small BD stutter on codec level when screen refresh rate is set at 60? Switching to 24p mode with madVR is good but not an ideal solution for computers.
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Old 19th November 2012, 08:21   #12998  |  Link
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I wonder if it would be possible to do something about the small BD stutter on codec level when screen refresh rate is set at 60? Switching to 24p mode with madVR is good but not an ideal solution for computers.
Thats nothing the decoder influences.
Use ReClock, it can solve such issues.
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Old 19th November 2012, 08:48   #12999  |  Link
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Thats nothing the decoder influences.
Use ReClock, it can solve such issues.
I was thinking if it would be possible to add similar method than what reclock uses in LAV.
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Old 19th November 2012, 09:58   #13000  |  Link
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I was thinking if it would be possible to add similar method than what reclock uses in LAV.
Thats not possible. Only the audio renderer has access to the audio reference clock to do what needs to be done.
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