madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Those of you that use a GTX 1080 card for MadVr, what settings can you use for 720p and 1080p, 24 fps content?

That's a very vague question. Outputting what resolution? 1080p, UHD?

[Stereodude]

So, has anyone else found scenarios where there are no apparent settings in madVR for what it does or that madVR does things that aren't per the settings?

For example, if I play back UHD content to my 1080p TV I get no chroma scaling, and I get luma downscaling based on my settings. Great, that's as expected. But, if I playback the same UHD content in a window, I get luma downscaling and chroma downscaling. The luma downscaling is per my settings, but it says in the OSD that it uses Bicubic75 AR for chroma downscaling. I can't figure out where that Bicubic75 AR is set. I don't have Bicubic75 AR set as a scaling algorithm anywhere in my madVR settings.

I tried playing with the settings a bit to figure out what's going on. It seems madVR will use the same algorithm for Chroma downscaling as is set for chroma upscaling for most of the algorithm options. However, if you choose Jinc, Bilateral, Super-xbr, or NNEDI3 as the chroma upscaling algorithm you get Bicubic 75 (AR) chroma downscaling. You may or may not get AR. If you pick Jinc as the upscaling option the AR checkbox also affects whether you get AR on your Bicubic75 chroma downscaling. For Bilateral, super-xbr, and NNEDI3 you get AR with your Bicubic 75 chroma downscaling automatically. Now I get that NNEDI3 can't downscale (super-xbr too?), I guess there's also no chroma downscaling pixel shader code for Jinc or Bilateral so it defaults to Bicubic75 (AR) for these options.

I guess all this to say it seems there should be a separate chroma downloading section, or it should follow image downscaling (if possible), not the chroma upscaling section?

Along the same lines, are the OSD settings displayed in madVR absolutely a correct representation of what the underlying engine is doing? IE: If the OSD says it's using Jinc AR is it absolutely using Jinc AR with no possibility that the OSD is incorrect about what the scaling engine is doing? I've found a few other scenarios similar to the one I've mentioned above where the OSD displays scaling settings that are seemingly at odds with the settings in profiles.

[huhn]

disable scale chroma separately, if it saves performance so you are only using image scaling when downscaling as it was in the past the rest is just a save performance for speed trade of nothing else.
image doubling algorithm can't down scale same for specialized chroma scaler.

the OSD informations are supposed to be correct.

[roninf]

Originally Posted by roninf

I have got the exact same issue as it seems ... i am struggling with this since almost one week.

I can activate the stereo setting in the nvidia panel (windows 3D switch is enabled automatically) and playing a 3D file will work fine.
But as soon as a 2D file is played... the setting in the nvidia panel is unticked while the windows setting stays at on. Afterwards i am no more able to play a 3D file in 3D until i tick the nvidia setting again manually.

I am using the following setup:

WIN 10 Pro 64bit - No anniversary update yet
GTX 1080 - latest driver
MPC-HC
Madvr - latest version

I had it working a few weeks ago using the same settings within madvr as today.

So i guess this might not be only related to the anniversary update as i don`t have it yet...

Greetings

Ok i think i found the solution for this issue even though i am not happy with it

So here is what i did:

• set 2D 1080p as resolution in the nvidia panel
• setup stereo in nvidia panel with the wizzard
• madvr settings as before 3d enabled all the standard settings for 3D
• rebooted
• checked settings again
• played a 2D file (which always broke 3D for me)
• played a 3D file and it was working
• repeated several times and it was still working

So this is not really what i wanted to find out because i definetly want to use 4K as standard resolution....

Btw. you can still have files scaled up to native 4K resolution in adding the display modes to madvr mode switcher - i checked this as well.
Somehow this whole thing does not make sense to me.
Can someone else maybe verify this as well and tell me if that makes sense or not?

Still i don`t know if madvr or nvidia is the underlying issue here... i guess its nvidia more likely...

[x7007]

Does anyone know why when I use Exclusive mode D3D11 + Potplayer x64. Entering FSE causing a delay because I am using 60 Hz on the desktop and somehow potplayer or madvr think the MKV movies is FSE 59 Hz, so it is switching to 59 Hz when FSE which causing the black screen delay. It is causing issue in TeamViewer for example when I want to watch something and I only see black screen all the time till I got out of FSE. when I'm sitting on the computer there is terrible annoying delay because of HZ switching. using 59 Hz and not 60 Hz from the Display settings does not have the Black Screen anymore, it is instant. Do anyone know the fix for that ? somehow I fixed it before but new drivers released and I checked now when watching a movie and it's back.


Windows 10 x64
Potplayer x64
Madvr 0.90.24
Lavfilters 0.81
1080GTX
FSE Exclusive Enabled + D3D11

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

That's a very vague question. Outputting what resolution? 1080p, UHD?

Yeah you are right. 1080p output

[chros]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

If you're using DX11 FSE, be sure that the "present a frame for every vsync" is checked with a Nvidia GPU, else there is stutterring which isn't recognized by madVR's stats.

I've tried out but I'm not sure whether I saw any stuttering without it (see my config in my signature). Indeed, there's nothing in stats.
Do you use display refresh changer (I do) and Smooth Motion (I don't)?
I'll try to look at it "closer".

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Yeah you are right. 1080p output

I have my boost clock set to 1850MHz. I use 12-bit 1080p output in the Nvidia control panel. madVR is set to DX11 10-bit FSE output. I'm not using ED. Most of the performance for quality options are not checked.

I use NNEDI3 128 Luma doubling and NNEDI3 32 chroma doubling with SSIM2D 50 AR/AB luma downscaling and Super-xbr chroma upscaling on 720p24 content and get a render time in the low 20ms time with some light enhancements (SR2, sharpening etc.).

For 1080p24 I use super-xbr supersampling for luma with SSIM2D 50 AR/AB luma downscaling, super-xbr on Chroma and get a render time around 35ms with some light enhancements (SR2, sharpening etc.).

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by chros

Do you use display refresh changer (I do) and Smooth Motion (I don't)?
I'll try to look at it "closer".

Yes, i'm using SM (saw it with a 60fps video at 75Hz). I didn't check if it was related to it (might be possible).
Performance savings by that option unchecked shouldn't be very big anyway, probably hardly existent for a fast GPU.

[chros]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Yes, i'm using SM (saw it with a 60fps video at 75Hz). I didn't check if it was related to it (might be possible).
Performance savings by that option unchecked shouldn't be very big anyway, probably hardly existent for a fast GPU.

Is it "only" micro stutter (means hard to notice) or is it clearly visible for you?

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

I have my boost clock set to 1850MHz. I use 12-bit 1080p output in the Nvidia control panel. madVR is set to DX11 10-bit FSE output. I'm not using ED. Most of the performance for quality options are not checked.

I use NNEDI3 128 Luma doubling and NNEDI3 32 chroma doubling with SSIM2D 50 AR/AB luma downscaling and Super-xbr chroma upscaling on 720p24 content and get a render time in the low 20ms time with some light enhancements (SR2, sharpening etc.).

For 1080p24 I use super-xbr supersampling for luma with SSIM2D 50 AR/AB luma downscaling, super-xbr on Chroma and get a render time around 35ms with some light enhancements (SR2, sharpening etc.).

These are the settings I am using at the moment with my GTX 1080 card. I'm still looking to improve IQ more, as I suspect Jinc AR for Chroma doubling/quad is making the image less sharp.

Thoughts anyone?

[YxP]

Originally Posted by Betroz

These are the settings I am using at the moment with my GTX 1080 card. I'm still looking to improve IQ more, as I suspect Jinc AR for Chroma doubling/quad is making the image less sharp.

Thoughts anyone?

I think you should just use a sharpener if it's sharpness you're after.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by YxP

I think you should just use a sharpener if it's sharpness you're after.

I could, but adding more and more filters can add more artifacs to the image, and that is something I don't want.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Betroz

I could, but adding more and more filters can add more artifacs to the image, and that is something I don't want.

Just enable stuff and go with what you like. More sharpness does not necessarily equal better image quality. I think personally I'd prefer a less sharp resizer and use the image enhancements.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Just enable stuff and go with what you like. More sharpness does not necessarily equal better image quality. I think personally I'd prefer a less sharp resizer and use the image enhancements.

Having NNEDI3 for double/quad Luma, and Jinc AR for only the double/quad chroma layer, is that somehow a bad solution or just a matter of personal taste for IQ?

[YxP]

Originally Posted by Betroz

I could, but adding more and more filters can add more artifacs to the image, and that is something I don't want.

You are already doubling and downscaling an image a lot that could easily just be upscaled and sharpened. If it's a kind of pipeline purity you're after, I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. Madshi's sharpeners are also pretty damn good, I wouldn't be too hasty worrying about possible artifacts.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by YxP

You are already doubling and downscaling an image a lot that could easily just be upscaled and sharpened. If it's a kind of pipeline purity you're after, I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. Madshi's sharpeners are also pretty damn good, I wouldn't be too hasty worrying about possible artifacts.

Yes but when you use image doubling with a 720p source and have a 1080p output, it is first upscaled to 1440p, then down to 1080p. For 480p that would be another step (quad) extra. Are you saying this is pushing more pixels than nessesary? Just jusing Jinc for all upscaling is not as sharp as NNEDI3 as you know.

With my old GTX 970 card I used NNEDI3 128 for Chroma Upscaling and Super-xbr antibloat 25 for all my image upscaling needs. Worked fine, but GTX 1080 is a faster card, so now I need to find a combination that give me a better image than before. I wish I could just use NNEDI3 256 neurons on everything with no dropped frames Or 128 neurons for that matter, but the GTX 1080 is simply not powerful enough. Even 64 neurons is pushing the rendertime way close to 40ms...

[YxP]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Yes but when you use image doubling with a 720p source and have a 1080p output, it is first upscaled to 1440p, then down to 1080p. For 480p that would be another step (quad) extra. Are you saying this is pushing more pixels than nessesary? Just jusing Jinc for all upscaling is not as sharp as NNEDI3 as you know.

Personally I wouldn't double a 720p picture for a 1080p screen. Your mileage may vary I'd go with jinc+SR2 or SR3. Plenty sharp for my taste even without added sharpening. I also think finding the perfect sharpener settings and combos would be more bang for the buck so to say.

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by Betroz

With my old GTX 970 card I used NNEDI3 128 for Chroma Upscaling and Super-xbr antibloat 25 for all my image upscaling needs.

Why are you using higher quality NNEDI3 settings for Chroma than Luma? I'd be quite skeptical if there's any benefit going beyond 32 for Chroma.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Why are you using higher quality NNEDI3 settings for Chroma than Luma? I'd be quite skeptical if there's any benefit going beyond 32 for Chroma.

First I set Chroma upscaling to super-xbr, then focused on Image Doubling settings. NNEDI3 64 on all gave me a rendertime close to 41ms of the video (38ms). Then I changed it so that I only have double and quadruple Luma set to NNEDI3, with chroma doubling/quadruple at Jinc AR.

What is the point in using only NNEDI3 32 neurons if the IQ is close to Super-xbr, which use way less resources and looks about the same? I do have a GTX 1080 card here that I want to take advantage of for MadVr. Trying to find a sweetspot, and was wondering if Jinc AR for chroma doubling makes NNEDI3 for Luma pointless.