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Old 19th October 2008, 00:12   #1  |  Link
rick090
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Very Importent TrueHD to PCM Question

hi everyone.
i'm backing up some bd titles with my bluray burner and since tsMuxer has a bug with TrueHD audio i found a way to convert the TrueHD track to PCM with eac3to.
my question is: is this method keeping the hd data that came with the TrueHD track cos' i dont wanna end up with only the core converted to pcm. is this method keep the original quality as in the TrueHD Track?
thanks.

ps. i dont wanna use progs like "tsRemux" cos its comlicated and doesn't allow me to add subtitles and mux an encoded video track.
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Old 19th October 2008, 00:27   #2  |  Link
rica
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Yes this is the right method but you will need to use pcm2Tsmu as well so as to reorganize the created pcm.
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Old 19th October 2008, 04:11   #3  |  Link
jtheripper
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How do you use eac3to to convert truehd to pcm?
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Old 19th October 2008, 12:27   #4  |  Link
rica
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eac3to input.m2ts output.pcm
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Old 19th October 2008, 14:45   #5  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick090 View Post
hi everyone.
i'm backing up some bd titles with my bluray burner and since tsMuxer has a bug with TrueHD audio i found a way to convert the TrueHD track to PCM with eac3to.
my question is: is this method keeping the hd data that came with the TrueHD track cos' i dont wanna end up with only the core converted to pcm. is this method keep the original quality as in the TrueHD Track?
thanks.

ps. i dont wanna use progs like "tsRemux" cos its comlicated and doesn't allow me to add subtitles and mux an encoded video track.

As rica stated earlier, you can use eac3to/pcm2tsmu for TrueHD to LPCM for tsMuxeR. While eac3to is working pay attention to the description, libav decodes the TrueHD track (not the AC3 track), then writes the six mono-wavs ---> PCM track. Once this file is done, you still need to use pcm2tsmu for a compatible tsMuxeR PCM file, or else no playback... or

You can keep TrueHD in your BD remux. First mux everything together (TrueHD, video - vc1, or h264 - subs) using tsMuxeR. Then take that m2ts file from the BDMV/STREAM folder and remux everything again using tsremux. It's a little much but you still get the piece of mind know you get to keep TrueHD (and subs)... no chapters though.

Either way, you still need to take two steps to get a comaptible HD audio stream.
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Old 19th October 2008, 14:57   #6  |  Link
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Here's a pic of a TrueHD to pcm conversion using eac3to. I mention earlier about the 6 mono-wavs, that only applies if the output is .wav, not pcm.

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Old 19th October 2008, 18:03   #7  |  Link
rick090
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Thanks.

thanks for all your help.
odin24, i didnt understand your method about keeping the truehd track.
you telling me that all i have to do is mux everything twice,and that's it??? it will fix the TrueHD muxing?
thanks.
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Old 19th October 2008, 19:13   #8  |  Link
rica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick090 View Post
thanks for all your help.
odin24, i didnt understand your method about keeping the truehd track.
you telling me that all i have to do is mux everything twice,and that's it??? it will fix the TrueHD muxing?
thanks.
You may want to have a look at this as well:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...59#post1183559

Last edited by rica; 19th October 2008 at 19:15.
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Old 19th October 2008, 20:47   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick090 View Post
thanks for all your help.
odin24, i didnt understand your method about keeping the truehd track.
you telling me that all i have to do is mux everything twice,and that's it??? it will fix the TrueHD muxing?
thanks.

Thanks exactly it, this applies for TrueHD though, DTSHD-MA muxes fine with tsMuxeR.

So, once again. Mux with tsMuxeR first, then mux again with tsremux, then burn the BDMV and Cetificate folders from the tsremux process.

Also, the link rica provided has alot of good information on how to process all of these good tracks, you should read through it before you start with your own movies.
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Old 20th October 2008, 02:15   #10  |  Link
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Originally Posted by odin24 View Post

You can keep TrueHD in your BD remux. First mux everything together (TrueHD, video - vc1, or h264 - subs) using tsMuxeR. Then take that m2ts file from the BDMV/STREAM folder and remux everything again using tsremux. It's a little much but you still get the piece of mind know you get to keep TrueHD (and subs)... no chapters though.

Either way, you still need to take two steps to get a comaptible HD audio stream.
Does this work for you? I have tried it a few times but have found that remuxing with TsRemux doesn't fix the problems that tsMuxeR causes, although muxing with TsRemux in the first place is fine.

Has anyone else had any luck with the tsMuxeR+TsRemux workflow with TrueHD? What about with TrueHD from an HD DVD turned into an interleaved TrueHD+AC3 by eac3to?
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Old 20th October 2008, 02:27   #11  |  Link
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Originally Posted by peterjcat View Post
Does this work for you? I have tried it a few times but have found that remuxing with TsRemux doesn't fix the problems that tsMuxeR causes, although muxing with TsRemux in the first place is fine.

Has anyone else had any luck with the tsMuxeR+TsRemux workflow with TrueHD? What about with TrueHD from an HD DVD turned into an interleaved TrueHD+AC3 by eac3to?
Yeah, it works fine. I watched a movie this afternoon following this workflow.

I guess you could use the source m2ts straight from the BD rip, but my h264 video was recoded to a smaller size, so tsMuxeR was needed to mux to m2ts in the first place.
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Old 20th October 2008, 02:30   #12  |  Link
rick090
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Its working...

odin24, i tryed your method and my ps3 shows "Dolby TrueHD" finaly. but on the computer the sound is kinda studdering.
are you sure this method is better than pcm method?
btw, i had to play with the playlist files and the clip inf files to get the chapters right cos' i'm keeping the original structure.
thanks.
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Old 20th October 2008, 03:06   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick090 View Post
odin24, i tryed your method and my ps3 shows "Dolby TrueHD" finaly. but on the computer the sound is kinda studdering.
are you sure this method is better than pcm method?
btw, i had to play with the playlist files and the clip inf files to get the chapters right cos' i'm keeping the original structure.
thanks.
I'm not sure if it is better or not, I like this way because it save some disc space... and it's the origianl file, just with dialnorm removed.

It's funny you mention "playing with the playlist and clipinf" files, you wouldn't happen to know how to enable .sup subtitles automatically. I have a small "forced english" subtitle stream, except it's not forced or hardcoded, I just want it to play without having to manually start it.

I have BDedit but I'm not sure how to use it or if it will work at all.

Last edited by odin24; 20th October 2008 at 03:16.
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Old 21st October 2008, 00:34   #14  |  Link
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Originally Posted by odin24 View Post
Yeah, it works fine. I watched a movie this afternoon following this workflow.

I guess you could use the source m2ts straight from the BD rip, but my h264 video was recoded to a smaller size, so tsMuxeR was needed to mux to m2ts in the first place.
Yeah it definitely doesn't work for me but I'm trying to play it on a Popcorn Hour A-110. My guess is that tsMuxeR does do something permanent to the TrueHD stream, TsRemux brings it close enough to specifications to be able to play it on certain devices but doesn't completely fix the problem -- not close enough for the PCH anyway.

Still hoping for a tsMuxeR fix...
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Old 21st October 2008, 00:50   #15  |  Link
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Originally Posted by peterjcat View Post
Yeah it definitely doesn't work for me but I'm trying to play it on a Popcorn Hour A-110. My guess is that tsMuxeR does do something permanent to the TrueHD stream, TsRemux brings it close enough to specifications to be able to play it on certain devices but doesn't completely fix the problem -- not close enough for the PCH anyway.

Still hoping for a tsMuxeR fix...

You can always transcode to PCM, is that compatible with PCH?
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:46   #16  |  Link
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Hi guys.
If you don't have thd gaps, converting thd to pcm would be silly.
THD is similar to a zipped pcm; when you unzip it you will get the original.
THD is shorter than a PCM.
But if you are still living issues in re-creating thd with the method which odin gives, i'm sure you are missing some details.
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Old 21st October 2008, 01:51   #17  |  Link
rick090
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odin24...

hi. unfortunatly i dont know how to force subtitles, i wish i could help you like you helped me, and you still can ...
somehow i cant tell the difference between DD 5.1 and TrueHD! the movie i was working on have both and i got ps3 and onkyo 606. the ps3 show "TrueHD" and the onkyo show "Multichannel PCM" as the ps3 decode the audio and sent it as PCM, but Kill me if i can tell the difference!
maybe the pcm method would be better? maybe tsmuxer does do permenent damage to the TrueHD track by extracting the core? maybe?
thanks.
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Old 21st October 2008, 04:31   #18  |  Link
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You can always transcode to PCM, is that compatible with PCH?
Yeah PCM is fine, I'm just trying to save a bit of space. Can I ask what are you playing back your remuxes with? Are you bitstreaming to a receiver or decoding to LPCM?
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Old 21st October 2008, 04:41   #19  |  Link
odin24
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Yeah PCM is fine, I'm just trying to save a bit of space. Can I ask what are you playing back your remuxes with? Are you bitstreaming to a receiver or decoding to LPCM?
BD-re (PS3) for TrueHD and DTSHD-MA, m2ts (PS3 HDD) for PCM if subs are not required.
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Old 21st October 2008, 08:42   #20  |  Link
odin24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick090 View Post
hi. unfortunatly i dont know how to force subtitles, i wish i could help you like you helped me, and you still can ...
somehow i cant tell the difference between DD 5.1 and TrueHD! the movie i was working on have both and i got ps3 and onkyo 606. the ps3 show "TrueHD" and the onkyo show "Multichannel PCM" as the ps3 decode the audio and sent it as PCM, but Kill me if i can tell the difference!
maybe the pcm method would be better? maybe tsmuxer does do permenent damage to the TrueHD track by extracting the core? maybe?
thanks.
Hmmm, I just watch Iron Man with TrueHD using the method I stated above and it sounded great. I did just get my receiver, before I did I started Indy 4 but could not finish it, no that I have the new receiver I think I can give you a better comparison. I'll report back later.

TrueHD/LPCM/DTSHD-MA doesn't neccesarily mean louder audio, but better quality, better clarity, more detail. I'd double check your PS3/Onkyo settings.

EDIT: If you need a good reference, or demo quality TrueHD material, get a copy of Dave Matthews Live at Radio City. It has a 96/24 TrueHD track, it also has a DD 5.1 @ 640kb/s track as well, you can compare for yourself. BTW, awesome BD... amazing sound.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/964/...radiocity.html

Last edited by odin24; 21st October 2008 at 09:44.
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