Is Kenshin really interlaced

[onisama]

I've been trying to endcode the kenshin series and haven't had much luck. DVD2AVI reports that is NTSC interlace. If a view it in Vdub it looks like it has a 3:2 pattern (2 of every 5 are definately combed), but the three "uncombed" frames show interlaced lines.

I've tried alot of different settings with decomb, but I can't get all parts to play smoothly. Either the horizontal pans will be smooth and the vertical pans will be choppy, or vice versa. Either way diagonal pans are always choppy. I've tried with and without decimate. I don't know maybe I haven't quite got the gthresh set right and the are some pattern guidance issues.

I tried fieldeinterlace (with various settings) and it was smoother but had more artifacts and noise than with decomb. I just tried Tomsmocomp(1,5,1) and it is also smoother but still shows some artifacting that is not present with decomb.

Back to my original question, is Kenshin pure interlace? And what have others done to get clean encodes (by clean, I mean smooth with the little or no artifacts or noise).

I'm also haveing the same issue with Inuyasha, DVD2AVI reports NTSC interlace, but I'm still not convinced it is pure interlace either.

Thx in advance.

[Guest]

Originally posted by onisama
If I view it in Vdub it looks like it has a 3:2 pattern (2 of every 5 are definately combed), but the three "uncombed" frames show interlaced lines.

You're not making sense here. Please elaborate.

[alucard83]

Well whaddya know, I'm encoding Kenshin myself! I created a pretty good encode with this setting:

SetWorkingDir("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\")
LoadPlugin("mpeg2dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("WarpSharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("Convolution3DYV12.dll")
LoadPlugin("GuavaComb.dll")
LoadPlugin("UnFilter.dll")


mpeg2source("G:\Rurouni Kenshin(DVD1)\ep4.d2v")


#IVTC
Telecide(guide=1,gthresh=50,chroma=true,threshold=30)
Decimate(cycle=5)

#DEINTERLACE
FieldDeinterlace(Blend=False)

#FILTERS
ConvertToYUY2().SeparateFields().GuavaComb(Mode = "NTSC", Recall = 83, MaxVariation = 25, Activation = 30).Weave()
ConvertToYV12().Convolution3d("AnimeLQ").Temporalsoften(4,4,8,mode=2,scenechange=8)
WarpSharp(30,2)
Xsharpen()
UnFilter(-20,25)
UnDot()


Of course, feel free to change any of the settings here
I'm also still trying to tweak the IVTC to get it to play a little smoother but these filters take out over 90% of the noise

[onisama]

maybe I should say 2 of every 5 frames looks like a blend of two frames they have the gear teeth look on all object edges. The other three frames are not blended but sometimes show the gear teeth (combing).

Does this help?

I may not be using the right terms as I am and, have been, trying to wrap my brain around the differences and nuiances of telecine and interlace material.

[onisama]

Here is my current ivtc script:

Telecide(guide=1,gthresh=50,chroma=true,threshold=30,blend=false)
Decimate(cycle=5,quality=3,mode=1)

I just made the jump to decomb500 so my parameters need a little tweaking.

The rest of my script follows as such:

Undot()
Deen("c3d",1,10,12,1)
Unfilter(-10,-10)
Warpsharp(20)
BicubicResize(480,480,0.0,0.6)
Undot()

This removes most of the noise, but if I can reduce the noise and artifacting created during the IVTC or deinterlace process during the actual IVTC or deinterlacing I wouldn't need so much filtering.

[Guest]

Probably you have blended fields. When you have enough of them, IVTC becomes moot and all you can really do is deinterlace. It is a sad reality.

[Guest]

Your gthresh is way too high for Decomb 5. It should be no more than 15%.

[onisama]

ok thanks don. I've been playing with the paramters trying to figure out what is controlling what.

One question though, (this is in regards to another dvd, El hazard, which is mostly interlace NTSC 70-80%, and randomly switches to film) I'm toying with the gthresh using show=true. Do I want to set the gthresh to the lowest percentage displayed on an [in-pattern*] frame?

Would not having this set correctly cause the video to be jerky in pans. I've tried both post=2 and post=4 with and without decimate. While using decimate I tried both mode=1 and mode=2, I didn't try mode=3 b/c the manual stated it was for mostly hybrid material comprised mostly of film.

I have read the decomb manual many times and have seen this:

Blended Fields. Some streams have fields that are blends of two original film progressive pictures! Some NTSC/PAL conversions can cause this, for example. Usually such a stream has a lot of these and the solution is to run postprocessing with blend=true to clean up the output stream. Using the default blend=true mode seems to work best and the blended fields appear as blended frames, which lends a kind of motion blur and reflects the "intent" of the input stream.

It just didn't sink in I guess.

[onisama]

I'll also try decimate in mode 3 just to check, but I'm still wondering about the pattern guidance.

[Guest]

Have you established whether you are suffering from blended fields? That is the first thing to know. Do a separatefields() and step through looking for blends.

I would just leave the gthresh at default. Raising it is dangerous. If you're not locking onto a good pattern, then there isn't one there, possibly due to blending. You can't force it by raising gthresh.

To help you more, you'd have to make a test clip available for inspection.

[onisama]

El Hazard does not have blended fields. I went back and looked at my avs files again and telecide post=2, decimate mode=2 did look pretty good. There was an occasional stutter in some vertical pans, but it looked pretty good. I will stil try decimate mode=3 and see how it looks.

My script lines for telecide and decimate are:

telecide(order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=15,blend=false,dthresh=5.0,chroma=true,gthresh=10)
decimate(cycle=5,quality=3,mode=2,threshold=1.0)

I'm still playing with the v and d thresh to catch some combing artifacts.


BTW I did start talking about two different dvds Kenshin and El Hazard. Just to clarify, Kenshin (I think) has blended fields and is interlaced. To me looked best with tomsmocomp and then fielddeinterlace in a very close second (I could never get rid of the jekiness with decomb). El Hazard does not have blended fields and is a hybrid of progressive and interlaced material.

What would you like as a clip, part of the VOB, or a processed mpeg or avi?

[Aktan]

Kenshin TV or kenshin OVA or kenshin OVA 2?

If it is Kenshin TV then like ( as in I forgot where) DVDs 1-5 have blended fields, then after that a filter like IT.dll works on DVD 6+ perfectly (except for the first intro of Kenshin).

[Guest]

>What would you like as a clip, part of the VOB, or a processed
>mpeg or avi?

It sounds like you have well analyzed both clips. I don't think I'd be able to add much.

[onisama]

ok thx don.

Its Kenshin TV, I'm on disc 4.

[NightMare]

use awarpsharp
warpsharp gives some jumpy frames

[onisama]

It wasn't warpsharp b/c I was doing my intitial testing for decomb w/o any additional filtering.

My most recent decomb script which seems to look OK on Kenshin is:

Telecide(order=0,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=27,blend=true)
Decimate(cycle=5,quality=3,mode=2)

I got smooth play in both the horizontal and vertical slow pans. Yes the eps I'm working on right now do have blended fields and the field pattern is all over the place, but the above worked good. I have only tried this on a test clip of Kenshin so far, a full ep encode may show something different. I'm trying post=4 and mode=2 right now to see how it looks.

Decomb 5 is quite an improvement over the earlier versions. Decomb 4 did a pretty good job using guide=1 and mode=2, but not as good as 5.

Can we say neuron2 is awesome.

Anyway I will keep posting for those working on Kenshin if I get any better results.

[silver_cpu]

Yes, please do. As the beaten red-headed stepchild of DVDs, anime (especially those nasty chinese imports) is almost always somewhat painful to rip. I'd be interested in any input you had, as I suffer from similar problems on occasion. I have never in my life, however, encountered something that Tom'sMoComp couldn't handle, even if it did smooth the image some. That you have bothers me...

[NightMare]

if the sorce if 100% ntsc dont use mode=2 it will give u some ghost frames or efects