madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Manni]

Would it be possible to add an option for no scaling at all in the auto A/R settings? I don't want any zoom or scaling to happen, and in some instances - for example when playing a test pattern for chroma multiburst from the S&M bluray which has a small black border all around the pattern - some scaling is applied which destroys the picture. This happens even when I select the maximum (50 pixels) as in this instance the border is slightly larger than that.

When using the great auto A/R feature on a 16/9 screen to shift the picture up or down depending on the A/R, there is no need to ever scale or zoom if you don't want to zoom the black bars out. I don't want to do that because it's detrimental to the PQ, but there is no way to fully disable this at the moment, or I've missed it.

A pure "no scaling" or at least a 100 or 200 pixels option in that list would be great to make sure scaling/zooming is fully disabled if we don't want any in any circumstance.

Thanks!

By the way, while looking at this pattern (once I had solved the scaling issue), some of the new chroma upscaling algos fail this test. For example, reconstruction soft fails and Super-XBR above 75 significantly raises the brightness in a way which can't be good or accurate, even if it does look sharper.

So based on this test, I wouldn't use reconstruction soft or any setting for super XBR above 75 (maybe 100 pushing it, but I would suggest 75 to be safe, unless you favour sharpness at all cost). Sticking to NNEDI 32 for now with super res at 3 as I can spare the power on bluray, and as I couldn't find an alternative that looked better both with patterns and real content.

[huhn]

your playback software should be able to stop madVR from scaling.

mpc hc/be can do this.

[evil-doer]

Originally Posted by Scyna

I have the same problem on an amd 290. I find that changing the image doubling from NNEDI3 to anything else fixes it.

I wonder if thats the commonality? 290x here, latest driver.

And you're right. Turning off the image doubling does fix it.

[hu1kamania]

Doubling 1080p with NNEDI3 and downscaling back to 1080p gives interesting results. I found SSIM 1D to look better than 2D, and definitely needed to utilize SR under upscaling refinement's to make it worth while.

Crispen edges and line thinning might be worth playing with in small doses. I didn't try Enhance Detail. Other sharpening refinements gave VERY subtle results.

Sorry if I don't have the lingo to explain things better. It seems like very fine details were a bit "smudged" compared to not supersampling. I'm not sure if this "smudging" is a good thing that helps with aliasing, or bad as it could be considered an artifact. I'm inclined to avoid supersampling until I can do more testing, but it's an exciting new feature.

Thanks madshi!

[Anima123]

It might not need doubling to trigger enhance features, which is too heavy, in future release of madVR?

[huhn]

image enhancements works without scaling.

[Sunset1982]

@ Georgel:


I just read your guide...

I think you should go more in depth with some options and you should explain, why you are using this or that option and what would be the good/bad of using it.

Asmodian got a good collection of madvr options with good advises here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by huhn

if you have a crash report it.

just to make it more clear your guide has a lot of total nonsense in it. there is a reason for the default settings.

telling madVR that your screen is 10 bit without using d3d11 does absolutely nothing and it can't introduce glitches without it because it is not used.

if your don't know what HDR does leave the default option there is a reason it is not 10000. 10000 it is not a reasonable option yet.

if you would play HDR with that option the picture wouldn't be really useful. so changing this give zero benefits.

the list is way longer than this.

Thanks a lot!

I looked these things over, and changed them. I will try to improve the guide as much as I can and as often as possible, because my software for video playback will rely heavily on madVR compatibility for video to look great.

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by Sunset1982

@ Georgel:


I just read your guide...

I think you should go more in depth with some options and you should explain, why you are using this or that option and what would be the good/bad of using it.

Asmodian got a good collection of madvr options with good advises here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

Thanks!

I will look into it and update the guide as soon as I can with all the information I see there that might be of interest.

If you have something specific that you want me to change, feel free to tell me.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by Georgel

I will look into it and update the guide as soon as I can

That's great news, this thread here on d9 was meant for mVR bug reports though so maybe you could take this discussion there for instance

[Manni]

Originally Posted by huhn

your playback software should be able to stop madVR from scaling.

mpc hc/be can do this.

The player has no involvement in this. If I switch to EVR-CP there is no scaling going on. It's a non-defeatable "feature" of the auto A/R option in MadVR which rescales the picture if there are small black bars around.

I love the Auto A/R feature of MadVR, so I don't want to disable it, I would just like a setting/option in the auto A/R settings that guarantees no scaling or zooming whatsoever. I don't mind if it shifts the picture up as that's what it was designed for in my case, but I don't want any scaling/zooming to ever happen, whatever the circumstances.

With the existing settings, there is some scaling/zooming if the black bars are larger than 50pixels, as this is the largest setting allowed currently.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Manni

I love the Auto A/R feature of MadVR, so I don't want to disable it, I would just like a setting/option in the auto A/R settings that guarantees no scaling or zooming whatsoever. I don't mind if it shifts the picture up as that's what it was designed for in my case, but I don't want any scaling/zooming to ever happen, whatever the circumstances.

With the existing settings, there is some scaling/zooming if the black bars are larger than 50pixels, as this is the largest setting allowed currently.

If you don't want zooming with black bars, then why don't you just turn that particular feature off entirely

[Manni]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If you don't want zooming with black bars, then why don't you just turn that particular feature off entirely

Because I don't need any zooming or scaling for it to work perfectly on a 16/9 screen. MadVR shifts the picture up to get rid of the top black bar, and I use a physical mask to mask the lower black bar on my projection screen. There is no need for scaling or zooming, and I don't want any. No one with a 16/9 screen needs zooming or cropping when using the auto A/R feature of MadVR. It's a great feature though, it prevents me from using the physical shift of the projector which takes ages and wears motors down, plus is limited to a few presets while MadVR is always perfectly right as it detects the actual A/R very well (except when there are also small black bars on the sides).

[adhara]

Hi,

I asked to my TV manufacturer what is the best video input signal on TV, they answered to me it's YUV for the following reason:

Is the HDMI output on the PC set to YUV, Limited RGB (16-235) or Full RGB (0-255)?
--> PCHC configured in full RGB (0-255) with Hisense in PC mode
- The TV is using complete different picture processing values if you input RGB!
o In case RGB is used as a source, gamma and color settings are not optimized for Video. Gamma, Colorspace and Colordecoding will not be accurate.

- In General:

o If RGB is used as input, the TV will be behave like a monitor not as a TV.

o If RGB is used the Color Decoding is done by the PC not the TV.

o Every Software Video Player Software has their own way to handle the YUV->RGB conversion. – So are different Software Decoder

o Graphic Cards are basically not setup by default for correct video level. But RGB. – Did you correct that?

I'm not agree with us as MadVr and video cards aims to work with RGB video signal. This avoid multiple video conversions during the processing and only the TV have to do a RGB to YUV conversion at the end.
Guys, what do you suggest regarding GPU video output (madvr is grised out on RGB) ? YUV or RGB ?

Setup 1 (my setup):
GPU outputs 0-255
Video player outputs 0-255
Display expects 0-255
Desktop and videos have matched levels where 0 is black and 255 is white, and the display is expecting this range. Videos get expanded from 16-235 to 0-255 once. The desktop gets no conversion because the GPU is outputting native 0-255.

Setup 2:
GPU outputs 16-235
Video player outputs 16-235
Display expects 16-235
Again, desktop and videos have matched levels and the display is expecting a range of 16-235 where 16 is black and 235 is white. Videos get expanded from 16-235 to 0-255, then back down to 16-235. The GPU converts 0-255 to 16-235 for the desktop. Result looks essentially the same as setup 1, but with more conversions.

Setup 3 :
GPU outputs 0-255
Video player outputs 16-235
Display expects 16-235
Now the display expects a range of 16-235, but the desktop is outputting 0-255. So videos will look right, but the desktop will clip levels below 16 and above 235. Again, this is the only way to be able to see WTW/BTB detail on a computer.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by adhara

Hi,

I asked to my TV manufacturer what is the best video input signal on TV, they answered to me it's YUV for the following reason:




I'm not agree with us as MadVr and video cards aims to work with RGB video signal. This avoid multiple video conversions during the processing and only the TV have to do a RGB to YUV conversion at the end.
Guys, what do you suggest regarding GPU video output (madvr is grised out on RGB) ? YUV or RGB ?

depends on your screen.

i don't see a reason RGB shouldn't work in this case madVR takes care of the rest.

[MokrySedeS]

Originally Posted by Manni

The player has no involvement in this.

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by leeperry

That's great news, this thread here on d9 was meant for mVR bug reports though so maybe you could take this discussion there for instance

Sorry for the intrusion on this thread.

This thread is the first google result when searching for madVR, and I had a very hard time for 2 months until I understood madVR, what it does, how and how to use it. This is why I want to point people to a thing I strongly believe will help them.





Also, I changed it according to all advice I had received from everywhere, so now it should be even better.






About reporting bugs, for me, with a GTX860M from Nvidia, using the settings that are pictured in there, if I activate Direct3D11 and full screen exclusive mode it will crash when going to full screen. It does this every single time I try to go to full screen.

From what I understood, after madshi took a look into the file I got from the crash, it seems that the driver is problematic, and it is not a madVR problem.

[baii]

For exclusive mode crash, try lower the presented frame in exclusive mode.

Sent from my 306SH

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Scyna

I have the same problem on an amd 290. I find that changing the image doubling from NNEDI3 to anything else fixes it.

Could be the same issue I'm facing with .11 & .12. I get the video freezing when I drop back from fullscreen into a visible window no issue with .10 happening with both 32 and 64 bit MPC-BE
only when NNEDI3 doubling/quadrupling is enabled and only with one video I have at which has a 704x480 resolution.

[CarlosCaco]

Originally Posted by Georgel

Sorry for the intrusion on this thread.

This thread is the first google result when searching for madVR, and I had a very hard time for 2 months until I understood madVR, what it does, how and how to use it. This is why I want to point people to a thing I strongly believe will help them.





Also, I changed it according to all advice I had received from everywhere, so now it should be even better.






About reporting bugs, for me, with a GTX860M from Nvidia, using the settings that are pictured in there, if I activate Direct3D11 and full screen exclusive mode it will crash when going to full screen. It does this every single time I try to go to full screen.

From what I understood, after madshi took a look into the file I got from the crash, it seems that the driver is problematic, and it is not a madVR problem.

Hey man, even with the changes your guide has a lot of incorrect informations,
The problem with most of the guides is afirmations without explanations, I started using madvr with a guide that has a lot of wrong informations, for a beginner this is bad because we tend to believe on guides
Did you reads the thread madvr options explaned?
You should try to explain the configs and if you want talk about your preferences as personal preferences
Like the topic about image refinements and upscaling refinements, is simple wrong and not explained...
Doubling and chroma upscaling too