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Old 23rd May 2020, 22:24   #9001  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dredd View Post
Any idea how to turn on VFR in megui ???
AFAIK, if the source is CFR and using AviSynth, like MeGUI do, it is not possible obtain a VFR encode.

Use HandBrake instead.
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Old 24th May 2020, 00:14   #9002  |  Link
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If the source is an NTSC DVD, the TIVTC plugin can be used to output a VFR encode. This is copied from another script as an example:

Analysis pass:
Quote:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\VTS_02_1_sample.d2v")

TFM(Output="D:\S01E01TFM.txt")
TDecimate(Mode=4, Hybrid=2, Output="D:\S01E01TDecimate.txt")

# TFM(Input="D:\S01E01TFM.txt")
# TDecimate(Mode=5, Hybrid=2, Input="D:\S01E01TDecimate.txt", tfmIn="D:\S01E01TFM.txt", mkvout="D:\S01E01Timecodes.txt")
Encoding pass:
Quote:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\VTS_02_1_sample.d2v")

# TFM(Output="D:\S01E01TFM.txt")
# TDecimate(Mode=4, Hybrid=2, Output="D:\S01E01TDecimate.txt")

TFM(Input="D:\S01E01TFM.txt")
TDecimate(Mode=5, Hybrid=2, Input="D:\S01E01TDecimate.txt", tfmIn="D:\S01E01TFM.txt", mkvout="D:\S01E01Timecodes.txt")
I generally do it with a single script and comment/uncomment the appropriate lines. The metrics files are created during the analysis pass (MeGUI has an analysis pass option for adding jobs to the job queue) and the timecodes file is created when the encoding script is first run. You'd add the timecodes to the x264 command line using the custom section in the encoder configuration like this:

--tcfile-in "D:\S01E01Timecodes.txt"

It's only designed for dealing with NTSC sources that are a combination of film and video though. The film sections at 23.976fps and the video sections at 29.97fps. It's not really a bitrate saver.

My favourite sharpener is LSFMod. It's subtle. I don't like video that looks sharpened. You can also try MCDegrainSharp for some noise removal and sharpening.

Last edited by hello_hello; 24th May 2020 at 11:48.
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Old 24th May 2020, 07:17   #9003  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
AFAIK, if the source is CFR and using AviSynth, like MeGUI do, it is not possible obtain a VFR encode.

Use HandBrake instead.
Yep Handbrake does have the option of VRF
Many Thanks again , will bother again

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
If the source is an NTSC DVD, the TIVTC plugin can be used to output a VFR encode. This is copied from another script as an example:

Analysis pass:


Encoding pass:


I generally do it with a single script and comment/uncomment the appropriate lines. The metrics files are created during the analysis pass (MeGUI has an analysis pass option for adding jobs to the job queue) and the timecodes file is created when the encoding script is first run. You'd add the timecodes to the x264 command line using the custom section in the encoder configuration like this:

--tcfile-in "D:\S01E01Timecodes.txt"

It's only designed for dealing with NTSC sources that are a combination of film and video though. The film sections at 23.976fps and the video sections at 29.97fps. It's not really a bitrate saver.

My favourite sharpener is LSFMod. It's subtle. I don't like video that looks sharpened. You can also try MCDegrainSharp for some noise removal and sharpening.
Thanks a bunch Hello_Hello
Will try and follow your insight
Off to try LSFMod


Any other tips for low bitrate encoding dear mate ???
by low I mean 1500 something for a 720p video
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:47   #9004  |  Link
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Sorry, I usually encode using CRF18, the slow preset and film tuning, and let the bitrate be what it needs to be.
My last 720p encode came in at 1421 kb/s, but it was easy to compress animation.

You could try grafun3() from DitherTools at the end of your scripts. In fact you should, maybe more-so for low bitrate encoding. It converts the video to 16 bit, does some gradient smoothing, and then dithers back to 8 bit. It can reduce existing color banding and help prevent the encoder from creating it. I think when I've compared encodes with and without it in the past, including it tends to reduce the bitrate for a give CRF value a little. Not by much, but every bit helps.

I forgot to mention, if you try the above VFR method, once you loaded an analysis script into MeGUI and run it, don't load it into MeGUI again until it's edited to make it the encoding script. If you do, MeGUI will check the script is okay when you load it into the video section and TIVTC will erase the metrics files, so you'll have to run the analysis pass again. It doesn't take long, but it's annoying. If you follow TFM & TDecimate with other filtering in the script, comment it out for the analysis pass too, so as not to slow it down.

I just realised there were a couple of TFM options in my example that were specific to the encode I was doing. I've edited my previous post to remove them

Last edited by hello_hello; 24th May 2020 at 11:50.
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Old 24th May 2020, 13:36   #9005  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
Sorry, I usually encode using CRF18, the slow preset and film tuning, and let the bitrate be what it needs to be.
My last 720p encode came in at 1421 kb/s, but it was easy to compress animation.

You could try grafun3() from DitherTools at the end of your scripts. In fact you should, maybe more-so for low bitrate encoding. It converts the video to 16 bit, does some gradient smoothing, and then dithers back to 8 bit. It can reduce existing color banding and help prevent the encoder from creating it. I think when I've compared encodes with and without it in the past, including it tends to reduce the bitrate for a give CRF value a little. Not by much, but every bit helps.

I forgot to mention, if you try the above VFR method, once you loaded an analysis script into MeGUI and run it, don't load it into MeGUI again until it's edited to make it the encoding script. If you do, MeGUI will check the script is okay when you load it into the video section and TIVTC will erase the metrics files, so you'll have to run the analysis pass again. It doesn't take long, but it's annoying. If you follow TFM & TDecimate with other filtering in the script, comment it out for the analysis pass too, so as not to slow it down.

I just realised there were a couple of TFM options in my example that were specific to the encode I was doing. I've edited my previous post to remove them
You are always so helpful dear mate
Many Thanks
I went through Dither tools but seems like I spoke too soon regarding filters , my technical prowess is 0.1% of you folks
Couldn't make head and tail of it
was actually thinking of some avisynth filter or some change in x264/x265 profile parameters or add some extra in the command line box ,so that details can be retained, margins remain sharp enough in my low bitrate encoding.
The source doesnt have any grain or doesn't need any denoiser as such,
But you know how this is when you try to hammer a source with such low bitrate , blocks, artifacts tend to appear in the final encode.
Just wish that the video looks decent enough for a HD TV viewing from a distance of 4 to 7 feet

Last edited by Lord Dredd; 24th May 2020 at 14:29.
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Old 24th May 2020, 14:43   #9006  |  Link
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If you install Avisynth+ (in addition to MeGUI's portable version) it'll have it's own subfolder called plugins. Any dlls or avsi scripts inside will automatically load when Avisynth runs. MeGUI's Avisynth will check it too.
So you'd put the two dlls in the Win32 folder from the zip file (assuming 32 bit Avisynth), along with the two Avsi scripts.

Dithertools also needs these three, so you'd download them and put the dlls in the same place.
https://github.com/pinterf/masktools/releases
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/RgTools
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/AddGrainC

Then with fingers crossed, you add gradfun3() to a script you're creating with MeGUI's script creator and refresh the preview. You probably won't see a difference, but the alternative is an Avisynth error message.

Avisynth+ has more plugin loading options than classic Avisynth. You can read about them here, but I use the auto-loading method myself.

I don't use x265, but x264 has it's own denoising. Enabling it and using enough to remove some light noise will probably help. Even if the source doesn't look noisy, give it a try. If it only removes very fine noise you're not seeing then it can't be a bad thing. You can adjust it under the Analysis tab in MeGUI's x264 encoder configuration.
http://www.chaneru.com/Roku/HLS/X264_Settings.htm#nr

Unfortunately I don't think there's really any free lunch, but I'm not an expert when it comes to tweaking x264, because I don't need to use a low bitrate like do you. And personally, I prefer to keep the encoding quality decent even if it means reducing the resolution and sacrificing a bit of detail to do it. It's better than looking at encoding artefacts, in my opinion.

Last edited by hello_hello; 24th May 2020 at 14:56.
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Old 24th May 2020, 20:01   #9007  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
If you install Avisynth+ (in addition to MeGUI's portable version) it'll have it's own subfolder called plugins. Any dlls or avsi scripts inside will automatically load when Avisynth runs. MeGUI's Avisynth will check it too.
So you'd put the two dlls in the Win32 folder from the zip file (assuming 32 bit Avisynth), along with the two Avsi scripts.

Dithertools also needs these three, so you'd download them and put the dlls in the same place.
https://github.com/pinterf/masktools/releases
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/RgTools
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/AddGrainC

Then with fingers crossed, you add gradfun3() to a script you're creating with MeGUI's script creator and refresh the preview. You probably won't see a difference, but the alternative is an Avisynth error message.

Avisynth+ has more plugin loading options than classic Avisynth. You can read about them here, but I use the auto-loading method myself.

I don't use x265, but x264 has it's own denoising. Enabling it and using enough to remove some light noise will probably help. Even if the source doesn't look noisy, give it a try. If it only removes very fine noise you're not seeing then it can't be a bad thing. You can adjust it under the Analysis tab in MeGUI's x264 encoder configuration.
http://www.chaneru.com/Roku/HLS/X264_Settings.htm#nr

Unfortunately I don't think there's really any free lunch, but I'm not an expert when it comes to tweaking x264, because I don't need to use a low bitrate like do you. And personally, I prefer to keep the encoding quality decent even if it means reducing the resolution and sacrificing a bit of detail to do it. It's better than looking at encoding artefacts, in my opinion.
That seems pretty lucid
by lower what values or nr would you suggest to have a decent effect , thinking of 200 , what say ?
I know I ll have to try various values on diff sources to have a general idea , but do you think 200 is a good starting point "?
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Old 26th May 2020, 02:56   #9008  |  Link
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Im trying to use filters with megui but I have trouble determining the source, from where they are taken.

first of all, are there any important filters which will work with 32-bit version of megui only?

in general, Id like to try to use 64-bit megui and corresponding filters as much as possible. can I really use only 64-bit filters with 64-bit version of megui without any exception?

the problem I have is that there seem to be various directories, theres tools\avs, tools\avs\plugins, tool\avisynth_plugin and also the directories of ones separate avisynth+ installation (plugins+ & plugins64+). so which is the directory megui uses for all its filters? I remember it could be specified in options but apparently not any more.

mostly I try to get ffms2, lsmashsource and TIVTC to run in 64-bit mode but its all a big mess and sometimes I get an error and get told that I cannot use some various 32-bit filter with 64-bit megui etc.

another thing is there are sometimes newer versions of some filters compared to the version which comes even with the developmental update server. is there any way I can simply replace such filters without breaking anything? can I simply replace megui internal avisynth.dll (and other files) with clang version of avisynth+?
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Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 26th May 2020 at 03:01.
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Old 26th May 2020, 08:57   #9009  |  Link
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The tools\avisynth_plugin folder is the one used for plugins by MeGUI. You should be able to simply replace the plugins with newer versions.

To change AVisynth itself, you need to replace the files in the MeGUI\tools\avs and MeGUI\tools\avs\plugins folders with the newer versions (replacement Avisynth files) while MeGUI is closed. When it runs it copies those files to the appropriate directories if it's using it's own portable Avisynth.

Anything in the "installed" Avisynth plugins folder is autoloaded when Avisynth runs, including MeGUI's portable version.

I don't know what the difference is between the "installed" Avisynth+ plugins+ & plugins64+ folders. For 32 bit Avisynth+ there's two folders. One is only checked by classic Avisynth while both are checked by Avisynth+. It's probably something similar. Someone else will probably know for sure.
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/AviSynt...gin_Autoloader
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Old 26th May 2020, 10:12   #9010  |  Link
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are avisynth and x264 which comes along with megui 64-bit also automatically 64-bit versions? or 32-bit but they still run on 64-bit megui? so everything Id manually replace in megui 64 has to be 64-bit as well?
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Old 26th May 2020, 11:59   #9011  |  Link
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Even if you're using 32 bit MeGUI, I'm fairly sure on a 64 bit OS it still uses a 64 bit version of x264. I think that's what avs4x26x.exe (or something similar) is for, but I could be wrong. I assume the 64 bit MeGUI comes with a 64 bit Avisynth, but have you tried Version() in a script?
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Old 26th May 2020, 19:40   #9012  |  Link
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Of course MeGUI 64 have all soft 64 bits.

MeGUI 32 have Avs+ 32 but in OS 64 uses also x264/x265 64 bits, now with ffmpeg like interface with Avs+ 32, before it was avs4x26x.exe like hello_hello say (ffmpeg is 1% fast in my test).

A plugin without 64 bit version is AudioLimiter.dll used to downmix audio 7.1 to 5.1 in MeGUI 32 bits.
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Old 27th May 2020, 06:30   #9013  |  Link
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@ Hello_Hello & tebasuna51 :
How can I encode a video in MEGUI using x264 or x265 using VBR ?? I am game for all methods that is 2pass , ABR, and CRF
Actually I was usin the wrong short form previously when i asked the same question . I said VFR back then , But what I wanted to ask where is the option to do a VBR 2 pass encding.

I just saw these encoding settings somewhere, what got me interested ws how on earth there is a max bitrate heding there and how on earth its showing 8k plus :O
Video
Quote:
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Duration : 1 h 56 min
Bit rate : 865 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 8 921 kb/s

@ Hello_Hello : using nr 100 does, help it decreases the size in a variety of videos ( tested 3 actually ) saw it do around 10% to 12% decrease .. Thats a lot but the clips were like 15min each
Will add more info after encoding some more videos with longer duration.


Thank you


EDIT :
Okay so after trying a lot i found how this is done but this refers to ffmpeg , but still want your specialist opinion if this same thing can be used in megui while doing 2pass by adding these two options in misc tab in x264 profile settings.

Quote:
You can use -crf or -b:v with a maximum bit rate by specifying both -maxrate and -bufsize:

ffmpeg -i input -c:v libx264 -crf 23 -maxrate 1M -bufsize 2M output.mp4

Last edited by Lord Dredd; 27th May 2020 at 07:29.
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:12   #9014  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dredd View Post
@ Hello_Hello & tebasuna51 :
How can I encode a video in MEGUI using x264 or x265 using VBR ?? I am game for all methods that is 2pass , ABR, and CRF
Actually I was usin the wrong short form previously when i asked the same question . I said VFR back then , But what I wanted to ask where is the option to do a VBR 2 pass encding.
OK now. You can obtain VariableBitRate with 2pass or Constant Rate Factor (CRF).

Also ABR is not exactly ConstantBitRate, is AverageBitRate.
There are I, P and B-frames you can't use the same bitrate for all frames, let's the encoder do the job.
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:39   #9015  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
OK now. You can obtain VariableBitRate with 2pass or Constant Rate Factor (CRF).



Also ABR is not exactly ConstantBitRate, is AverageBitRate.

There are I, P and B-frames you can't use the same bitrate for all frames, let's the encoder do the job.
No I was asking if that can be used but unfortunately those commands are fir ffmpeg only.

Can you tell me how can one encode using VBR

Last edited by Lord Dredd; 27th May 2020 at 12:45.
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:45   #9016  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dredd View Post
...how on earth there is a max bitrate heding there and how on earth its showing 8k plus...
Some parts can need this bitrate.
A bitrate 8k can be a standard average bitrate for a 1080p movie.

What do you think about this encode:
Code:
Codec ID           : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Bit rate           : 11,1 Mb/s
Width              : 720 píxeles
Height             : 572 píxeles
Frame rate         : 50,000 FPS
Color space        : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth          : 8 bits
Writing library    : x264 core 159 r2991 1771b55
Encoding settings  : ... crf=18.0 ...
Is a deinterlace (QTGMC for that 50 fps) of a dificult miniDV tape from my holidays (longtime ago): 11,1 Mb/s for a 720x572

Some parts need high bitrates.

EDIT: x264/x265 always encode VBR
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:51   #9017  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Some parts can need this bitrate.
A bitrate 8k can be a standard average bitrate for a 1080p movie.

What do you think about this encode:
Code:
Codec ID           : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Bit rate           : 11,1 Mb/s
Width              : 720 píxeles
Height             : 572 píxeles
Frame rate         : 50,000 FPS
Color space        : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth          : 8 bits
Writing library    : x264 core 159 r2991 1771b55
Encoding settings  : ... crf=18.0 ...
Is a deinterlace (QTGMC for that 50 fps) of a dificult miniDV tape from my holidays (longtime ago): 11,1 Mb/s for a 720x572

Some parts need high bitrates.

EDIT: x264/x265 always encode VBR
That should look great.
If all my MEGUI encoders done using x264 or x265 have VBR on by default
Then Why doesnt my mediinfo shows maximum bitrate like that example showed???

Sent via x266
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Old 28th May 2020, 01:21   #9018  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dredd View Post
Then Why doesnt my mediinfo shows maximum bitrate like that example showed???
MediaInfo can't examine the full video stream to search the max bitrate, it only show data stored in the tracks header.

Then the encoder or muxer of that video have store the maximum bitrate used. It is not standard.

If you use MkvToolNix to mux and you don't --disable-track-statistics-tags you grab some metadata about video:
Code:
Video:	BPS-eng = 11066469
	DURATION-eng = 00:07:33.600000000
	NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng = 22680
	NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng = 627468799
	_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng = mkvmerge v45.0.0 ('Heaven in Pennies') 64-bit
	_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng = 2020-05-25 17:07:43
	_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng = BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
with this data you have the average bitrate (BPS or NUMBER_OF_BYTES/DURATION) but unknow the max bitrate.
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Old 29th May 2020, 08:59   #9019  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
MediaInfo can't examine the full video stream to search the max bitrate, it only show data stored in the tracks header.

Then the encoder or muxer of that video have store the maximum bitrate used. It is not standard.

If you use MkvToolNix to mux and you don't --disable-track-statistics-tags you grab some metadata about video:
Code:
Video:	BPS-eng = 11066469
	DURATION-eng = 00:07:33.600000000
	NUMBER_OF_FRAMES-eng = 22680
	NUMBER_OF_BYTES-eng = 627468799
	_STATISTICS_WRITING_APP-eng = mkvmerge v45.0.0 ('Heaven in Pennies') 64-bit
	_STATISTICS_WRITING_DATE_UTC-eng = 2020-05-25 17:07:43
	_STATISTICS_TAGS-eng = BPS DURATION NUMBER_OF_FRAMES NUMBER_OF_BYTES
with this data you have the average bitrate (BPS or NUMBER_OF_BYTES/DURATION) but unknow the max bitrate.
Hi
Sorry for the late reply mate
I guess I ll have to devote more time in understaning the finer nuisances of parameters and all.
On a side note

Would you kindly enlighten me about when and how one should use

vbv_maxrate
vbv_bufsize

I guess they do the same thing as those ffmprg commands but I was wondering how to use these if suppose I am gonna use a slower or very slow profile to encode in 2 pass or crf.

But then If VBR is what both x264 and x265 encode with then may be these are not used anymore ???
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Old 29th May 2020, 10:15   #9020  |  Link
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VBV parameters are important when the player with a limited decoding buffer has to read from a medium with limited read speed, in contrast to a PC reading from a local harddisk with generous RAM and read speed.

That will mainly affect consumer players playing movies from an optical disc or a Flash memory stick/card, or any player (even a PC with large RAM) receiving the movie vie a network with a bandwidth close to the average bitrate.

Consumer devices and media (e.g. Blu-ray players) will have more or less publicly known specifications about their supported limits. Apart from that it may be a challenge to discover the decoding buffer capacity and the read speed...
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