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28th March 2018, 03:04 | #49881 | Link |
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@Manni
Your recent post re: DCIP3 vs BT.2020 has confused me. I understand you are relaying what works for you on your JVC 12bit but I'm seeing a problem on my Samsung 10bit and not sure if what you say applies to me as well? According to your info, if I use BT.2020 for HDR10, it should be best because I'm inside the spectrum and not on the cusp of the smaller spectrum - DCIP3. Or does this not apply because I'm peaked at 10bit and still within the smaller spectrum? My HDR titles look the same no matter if I use BT.2020, DCIP3, BT.709, or disable calibration controls. Forget that I'm dialed back to 8bit output because of the banding issue. I reset to 12bit to test. Shouldn't I be seeing a big difference in color when I toggle these using HDR 10bit titles? Fwiw, it is in HDR mode and it looks very good using any of those. Just no difference between any of them. I'm fairly certain this is because I'm passing HDR through and I'm sending metadata to the display but if memory serves me right, so are you? I couldn't find the post where you clarified that so excuse me if I'm making a wrong assumption. If I select BT.2020, HDR looks fine but SDR looks under saturated. SDR 8 or 10bit only looks good if I select DCIP3 or BT.709. So, I could use BT.709 and satisfy SDR and HDR, but I think the spectrum is smaller using BT.709 even though in my case it shouldn't matter due to I can't see a difference playing HDR. So, I use DCIP3 and satisfy SDR and HDR this way. Would it be better to profile SDR with DCIP3 or BT.709 and create another profile for HDR and set it to BT.2020 or one the others? I'm concerned that my HDR titles don't respond to any of those settings and I'm confused how best to satisfy SDR and HDR? I'm hoping you and/or others might chime in and advise me. If you guys were me, how would you select the relevant settings? I setup custom modes today with the new driver at 8bit and not 12 because of the banding (until 10bit is released if they ever step up and actually do it) and forced to drop it down if that matters. But I did test in 12bit.
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HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W Last edited by brazen1; 28th March 2018 at 03:22. |
28th March 2018, 03:19 | #49882 | Link |
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This is simply because madVR has a special case for H.264. For H.264 madVR reports both the source format and the format it received, in your example the source is h264 8bit 4:2:0 and madVR received NV12 surfaces of 8bit 4:2:0 video. For other codecs (4K is usually HEVC) madVR only reports the format madVR received from LAV Video.
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madVR options explained |
28th March 2018, 04:17 | #49883 | Link | |||
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This is just about how it does HDR tone mapping when using its different options, it cannot be applied to any other TVs or projectors. Quote:
For HDR content it is different, I don't have as much calibration experiance but my TV assumes the source content is BT.2020 when doing its tone mapping. Its HDR mode works better when the 3DLUT maps to HDR BT.2020 or "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" targets BT.2020. Quote:
In wider gamuts all brightness levels of pure red are simply more red. BT.709's pure red is a shade of orange in BT.2020. Actually displaying BT.2020 would take something like lasers of the precise wavelength so pure red does not stimulate the human green or blue color sensing cells at all, and the same for the green and blue light sources. All that said, which options do you have on your display? Do you have BT.2020, DCI-P3 or BT.709 options? My TV only has "wide" (close to DCI-P3) and "enhanced" (closer to BT.709). I leave it on "wide" and would use DCI-P3 for SDR in madVR if I did not use 3DLUTs. For HDR what options are you using in madVR? With "passthrough HDR content to the display" the setting in the calibration page does not apply, the metadata has that information and the display handles any conversions.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 28th March 2018 at 04:21. |
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28th March 2018, 05:00 | #49884 | Link | |
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I would first update my GPU drivers if you haven't already. If this persists, then set everything to 8-bit RGB. You really won't be missing much as the difference between 8-bits and 10-bits is hard to notice during normal viewing. It is not one of the important settings in madVR. As for the 4:4:4 thing, I'm guessing your PC input is 4:4:4 and your other inputs are 4:2:2. That image you are using is 1080p, to my knowledge, so that could skew the results. But that is the most likely scenario.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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28th March 2018, 05:07 | #49885 | Link |
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Yes, as Asmodian said, HDR mode is not used with calibration settings in madVR. madVR sends the gamut, transfer function and metadata, so there is no conversion. The only exception is HDR -> SDR conversion. What you have to worry about is your SDR calibration. Also known as the standard mode on your display when nothing HDR is played.
The gamut could remain wide, but, with proper calibration, it should not exceed 100-120 nits of luminance.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players Last edited by Warner306; 28th March 2018 at 05:12. |
28th March 2018, 08:52 | #49886 | Link | |
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Yeah i did install newest nvidia drivers 391.24. My modes in madvr are like that 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p50, 2160p29, 2160p30. Here is the screenshot from 1080p movie https://imgur.com/a/R6COj So i dont really know if it does switch to 23.976hz ? Here is screenshot from from 2160p HDR movie https://imgur.com/a/UT4Bx About the chroma pattern image, im using right now hdmi input YCbCr in nvidia panel and i can see both numbers clearly in full screen. But when set to Full RGB and change black level on TV to high/auto then i cant see just the shade off 422 but 444 is not visible at all, both scenario in hdmi label input on TV. I just notice that i can change refresh rate in nvidia panel but when no playing any movie, then refresh rate stay to what i choose, but once i play movie it automatically change to 59hz Last edited by maxkolonko123; 28th March 2018 at 08:57. |
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28th March 2018, 09:28 | #49887 | Link | |
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unc path
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28th March 2018, 11:46 | #49888 | Link |
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unfortunately MADSHI doesnt feel my colour issue with DIRECT3D11@23hz is a MADVR problem even though it only occurs with MADVR, I dont agree there isnt much I can do, if anyone else has similar issues can they post.
recap: Happens only with AMD RX generation cards ( think) I only see if with SDR material running @ 23hz happens only when "use DIRECT3D11" ticked in MADVR Putting TV in PC mode corrects the problem. i'm going to log this on AMD forums but there isnt really much for AMD to go really as it only happens with MADVR, doubt they will even bother to look at it. The reason others havent picked up on this yet is may that there still arent that many 4K HDR TV owners out there using MADVR with RX cards, at present only one other person has reported similar issues. |
28th March 2018, 12:02 | #49889 | Link | |
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ok let's see that this happen with MPDN with 3d11?
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edit: ahh yeah the AMD forum is not there to report GPU driver bugs it is there to get help from other >user< NOT from AMD. |
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28th March 2018, 13:10 | #49890 | Link | |
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its a difficult one this, the fact that other renderers can process colour correctly at the same resolution, refresh rate and TV mode suggest that MADVR is getting tripped up somewhere by something, not that there is a fault somewhere in a GPU driver, surely if that were the case they'd all get tripped up. Obviously MADVR is doing things differently to other renderers but this is the reason why you call it a bug with MADVR and not with the AMD gpu driver, they wont wirte their drivers to work with MADVR, surely its up to MADSHI to write MADVR to work with their drivers. AMD's response if the was one would likely be what is MADVR doing that all other renderers are not? I've got a workaround that works for now, not a fan of workarounds as a like a simple setup but MADSHI is busy and i'm already eternally grateful for all the work he's already done so it wouldnt be fair to put further pressure on him. if this doesnt get fixed its not the end of the world but I'd still like it to be acknowledged as a bug with MADVR and not with the GPU driver. However, if MADSHI does nothing at all with this but still continues to develop MADVR i'll be happy enough with that. |
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28th March 2018, 13:58 | #49892 | Link | |
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It just doesn't allow any new modes to be added. Just the default ones that are already there can be applied. I'm guessing nvidia changed some security setting that doesn't allow some registry keys to be changed if it recognizes that an HDTV is connected. I'm not really sure. Maybe there is some registry tweak that we can do to allow new modes to be created again. Last edited by FDisk80; 28th March 2018 at 14:06. |
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28th March 2018, 13:59 | #49893 | Link | |
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99.99% of consumer commercial UHD HDR content (mostly UHD Blurays) is mastered to BT2020 with a D65 white point. A few titles are mastered in UHD rec-709 SDR (such as The Fourth Phase), but they are really a handful.
Out of these BT2020 titles, 99.99% are graded on a monitor with DCI-P3 capabilities, but they are still using a BT2020 container. A few titles (more and more as both grading displays and consumer displays evolve) are starting to use beyond DCI-P3, so report a grading monitor with BT2020 capability. For the user, it doesn't matter. The only correct calibration to use for consumer content is BT2020. It doesn't matter if the capability of the consumer display is limited to DCI-P3 or not (most are), the saturations/calibration has to be BT2020. If your display only says "wide", then you have to measure it (not only at 100% saturation, but also within the gamut at say 25%, 50% and 75%) in order to establish if the calibration tracks DCI-P3 or BT2020 saturations. For example, on the JVCs, the first HDR models had a reference mode that tracked DCI-P3, which was incorrect. I had to create a BT2020 color profile tracking BT2020 (even if the native gamut was still not wider than DCI-P3) to reproduce HDR content correctly. JVC soon after released exactly the same calibration to correct their initial error. There is no way to know which display is doing what, so whether they are doing it correctly or not. The only thing I can tell you is that consumer content (ie content you purchase, not early demos) are almost all using a BT2020 container. So you have to use a BT2020 calibration if you want to reproduce the colors correctly. That is in passthrough mode or with sources other than MadVR. If you use HDR to SDR conversion, then you simply have to either select what the source expects (for example, the UB 900 or the Oppo 203 players will output SDR BT2020 or SDR BT709 with a power gamma of 2.4, so you should select a calibration that does the same), or if you're using MadVR you can tell MadVR what your display is calibrated to, and MadVR will do the conversion for you. So if you use only MadVR and are happy with the HDR to SDR mode, you can tell MadVR to convert to DCI-P3, and it will do it. But if you want to use the same calibration with other sources, then you have no other way than creating a BT2020 calibration, because no consumer source will ever output DCI-P3. DCI-P3 isn't a consumer format. It won't be in any consumer content, and it won't be sent by any consumer source. So you have two ways to approach this: - If you want consumer HDR sources other than MadVR to use the same HDR calibration, or if you want to use MadVR in passthough mode, you have to create/select a BT2020 calibration. - If you only use MadVR, or if you can create a 3D LUT converting to whatever your display needs, or if you're happy with MadVR HDR to SDR conversion, you simply have to know which gamut your display is tracking in it's "wide" mode, and specify this to MadVR / use the correct 3D LUT. Quote:
It's not an option with projectors because you lose a lot of performance in either HDR or SDR if you use the same calibration for both. It is risky to assume that because the native gamut is closest to DCI-P3, its "wide" setting, because it measures close to DCI-P3, is actually tracking DCI-P3. It might be the case if it's an early HDR display, an SDR display or a poorly/wrongly designed HDR display, but it shouldn't really. It should be tracking BT2020 saturations. You have to understand the distinction between the maximum native capability (the edge of the gamut) and the way the calibration tracks within the gamut. If your display is a HDR consumer display and has a valid/decent HDR mode, it should be using a BT2020 calibration so that it tracks properly BT2020 content, even if the edge of its native gamut doesn't go beyond DCI-P3. Otherwise you will have correct colors at the edge of the gamut, but incorrect colors within. This changes if you're using an HDR to SDR calibration with MadVR, or if you're using 3D LUTs to convert from one gamut to another. This is frankly off topic here, but you are making a lot of wrong/risky assumptions in what you are describing.
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28th March 2018, 14:09 | #49894 | Link | |
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28th March 2018, 15:15 | #49895 | Link | |
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28th March 2018, 15:29 | #49896 | Link |
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thats only half the story though, putting my TV in PC mode and leaving DIRECT3D11 ticked produces the correct image, as does turning off refresh rate switching and having movies play at 60hz, none of this makes sense, its not as simple as just saying either its a D3D problem or a GPU driver issue, you cant say that until you know the exact cause, I dont think anyone does.
Last edited by mclingo; 28th March 2018 at 15:43. |
28th March 2018, 15:29 | #49897 | Link | |
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A list of available refresh rates for the connected display can be viewed in Windows:
As for the HDR movie, it doesn't look like passthrough is active. Are you using passthrough? Does your GPU and display support HDR playback? And the 4:4:4 image? Don't worry about it. There is nothing you can change in madVR to alter this. The mode you are using might be 4:2:2, but this won't matter too much. Look up your display on Ratings.com for more technical information.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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28th March 2018, 15:49 | #49898 | Link | |
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if mpdn has the same problem it is clearly not a madVR problem. everything points at your TV everything... |
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28th March 2018, 16:00 | #49899 | Link |
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both my TV's are doing it, my EF950 2015 OLED and my 2016 Samaung MU7000 so its not my main TV, its something to do with my GFX card, I acknowledge that as it didnt do it when I put the NVIDIA 1050 in, however, the question is, does a tweak need to be made in MADVR or with the AMD driver or elsewhere to resolve this, thats the question we need answering, I would have thought MADSHI was the only person who could answer that.
What if MPDN doesnt have the same problem, its definitely MADVR then? |
28th March 2018, 17:52 | #49900 | Link | ||
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However, I did a lot of measuring and I am pretty convinced that for SDR my display is best used with madVR by setting DCI-P3 in madVR. If I set BT.2020 in madVR it is under saturated everywhere, not simply at the edges. Quote:
You are in a weird situation because the options on the calibration page in madVR normally do not affect the output when watching HDR content on an HDR display. For HDR setting DCI-P3 or BT.2020 is only an option when using "process HDR content by using pixel shader math", and when using that option almost everyone should use BT.2020. Again, this is only on madVR's hdr page, not its calibration page.
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madVR options explained |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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