madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Page 1104

djfred93 · 27th January 2014, 20:52

MadVR don't load with the latest version, it is stuck at opening the file and it crash on the setting window. The debug don't work either.

Log

My system : Intel Core i7@920, Ati Radeon HD 5770, Windows 8.1, MPC-HC 1.7.2

michkrol · 27th January 2014, 21:17

Thanks for the rapid releases madshi

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfred93

MadVR don't load with the latest version, it is stuck at opening the file and it crash on the setting window. The debug don't work either.

Log

My system : Intel Core i7@920, Ati Radeon HD 5770, Windows 8.1, MPC-HC 1.7.2

For me v0.87.4 works correctly. I'm on Intel HD4000, MPC-HC 1.7.2, Windows 8.1, so it might be Radeon-related. Have you tried resetting settings, just in case?

trip_let · 27th January 2014, 21:43

I seem to get the same results as below, even with 0.87.4. I also have HD 4000 / GT 650M (Optimus), on Win8.1 64. The OpenCL stuff doesn't work if GT 650M is used; otherwise, it does. DXVA image upscaling + NNEDI3 image doubling looks "correct," but that's just because NNEDI3 seemingly isn't being used at all with DXVA image upscaling. With the other upscaling, there are problems.

By the way, for a test case of 540p -> 1080p, rendering times Jinc3 AR are about 22 ms, while they're about 312 ms with NNEDI3 64 neurons (for image doubling), producing incorrect colors like namaiki got.

I tried 332.21, 327.23, and 326.01 drivers, all mobile versions, all with the same results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaiki

My apologies if this has already been reported:

Testing Intel HD4000 with Nvidia 650M (Optimus). I have not replaced C:\Windows\SysWOW64\opencl.dll as was previously suggested. The 650M is selected for use. I have the latest drivers installed (ForceWare 327.02, Intel 3345). I tested with madVR87d. OpenCL error diffusion is not enabled for the below screenshots, but when it is enabled it seems to produce a black image.

How the image normally looks:
http://i43.tinypic.com/10xrlue.jpg

NNEDI Chroma enabled:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2yugkck.jpg
(appears to have a green tint)

NNEDI Chroma and Image doubling both enabled:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2zi0wfd.jpg

NNEDI Image doubling enabled:
http://i42.tinypic.com/4s04th.jpg
(image appears dark and perhaps missing a layer?)

DXVA scaling and nnedi doubling combined does seem to produce a correct image:
https://www.mediafire.com/?mgvmhdovgys5dfr

Note: Video was scaled from 1280x720 to 1920x1080 for 1.5x NNEDI to be enabled.

Logs for the above: https://www.mediafire.com/?wz32v37zzd3u9bj

Original 0.87 was crashing MPC-HC but 87a-d don't.

If I disable Optimus and use the Intel HD4000, the colors are not affected as such but the Intel GPU is too slow for realtime playback.

If a log means anything (it's not crashing, just not looking correct), see here.

Profile switching and all sorts of other goodies work fine and nothing is wrong except OpenCL features not working—producing garbage output like above or black screen for error diffusion. Thanks for all your work and rapid-fire debugging efforts, madshi!

yok833 · 27th January 2014, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Freeman

With Dithering + DeBanding we currently have in MadVR, DeNoise from ffdshow, and MPC-LumaSharpen (from SuperFX, the best one yet) sharpening, I get a better picture from a full 50Gb blu-ray than it can ever have.

James could you please give me a link where I could find this sharpen filter... Guess it is to add with shaders filters in mpc (post resize)...

antonyfrn · 27th January 2014, 21:50

@madashi some good news MPCHC + v0.87.4 + Geforce 334.67 Betas I can use NNEID3 but picture is green with my GTX760 4GB

Deim0s · 27th January 2014, 21:54

madshi,

Quote:

Can you please check whether the problem with 4K playback still occurs in v0.87.4?

Quote:

Maybe the 4K downscaling performance issue could be fixed, too, but I don't know. Give it a try and let me know.

On version 0.87.4, playback of all my test 4k samples it became perfectly.
And with the queue settings: CPU - 16, GPU - 8, backbuffers - 3, playback too perfectly and mpc-hc not crash.
Thanks for your great work!

cyberbeing · 27th January 2014, 22:03

madshi, could you explain how 'chroma upscaling = NNEDI3' and 'image doubling, double Chroma resolution' relate when upscaling a video exactly 2x?

640x360 -> 1280x720

GPU load 37%
chroma upscaling = NNEDI3
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = NNEDI3
opencl dither = enabled

GPU load 34%
chroma upscaling = Catmull-Rom
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = NNEDI3
opencl dither = enabled

GPU load 28%
chroma upscaling = NNEDI3
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = disabled
opencl dither = enabled

Why does GPU load differ?

[Edit]
Same thing happens with GPU load changing when 'image doubling luma = NNEDI3' is active for 640x360->1280x720 2x scale, depending on the setting for 'image upscaling'.

I was under the impression that 'image doubling luma' & 'image doubling chroma' would override 'image upscaling' & 'chroma upscaling' when the video is resized to a 2x multiple.

Am I misunderstanding something?

iSunrise · 27th January 2014, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.87.4 released

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

Would be nice if someone could report the OpenCL driver bug with the current official drivers to NVidia.

I´ve reported it to Blaire (3dcenter forum). Not sure if he needs more details though, but I just went with "black screen/no picture output" as the failure description and linked to your full post for completeness sake.

yok833 · 27th January 2014, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfrn

@madashi some good news MPCHC + v0.87.4 + Geforce 334.67 Betas I can use NNEID3 but picture is green with my GTX760 4GB

Same here with the last beta... Green screen with NNEDI3 chroma upscaling
&
very dark picture (but no black screen) with image doubling <use NNEDI3 to double Luma resolution>

Error dithering & double chroma resolution is still black screen

Windows 7 + gtx 660 ti

LoRd_MuldeR · 27th January 2014, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

Code:

madVR v0.87.4

* workaround added: NNEDI3 upscaling failed/froze with newer NVidia GPUs
* fixed: NNEDI3 chroma upscaling produced wrong colors with 10bit sources
* got rid of some unnecessary texture sharing

Thanks for the update, but while NNEDI3 now doesn't make the video output freeze completely anymore, I still get broken output:
With NNEDI3 vs. No NNEDI3

Running on a GeForce GTX 660 Ti with latest drivers (January 7, 2014).

nevcairiel · 27th January 2014, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Thanks for the update, but while NNEDI3 now doesn't make the video output freeze completely anymore, I still get broken output:
With NNEDI3 vs. No NNEDI3

Running on a GeForce GTX 660 Ti with latest drivers (January 7, 2014).

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

You have to downgrade to NVidia 327.23 drivers (or older) to make the OpenCL features work with NVidia.

You should've read the release announcement to the end.

madshi · 27th January 2014, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfrn

Sent a bug report to NVidia ill try poke one of the reps over at guru3d

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSunrise

I´ve reported it to Blaire (3dcenter forum). Not sure if he needs more details though, but I just went with "black screen/no picture output" as the failure description.

Thanks guys. More details would be:

(1) Can be reproduced by unchecking the "use random dithering instead of OpenCL error diffusion" option in the "rendering -> trade quality for performance" section of the madVR settings.

(2) Works fine with 327.23 and older drivers. Problem occurs with anything newer than 327.23.

(3) Technical cause is that D3D9 <-> OpenCL interop doesn't seem to work properly. All APIs return success, but the OpenCL kernels seem to produce zero/black output at all times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfred93

MadVR don't load with the latest version, it is stuck at opening the file and it crash on the setting window. The debug don't work either.

If I remember correctly, this problem occurred for you multiple times already in the past. I think this is very likely not a bug in madVR, but has some other cause specific to your PC. My first guess would be some other software making trouble. E.g. do you have some sort of Microsoft security software (anti-virus or similar) running? These are known to sometimes produce such problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trip_let

I seem to get the same results as below, even with 0.87.4. I also have HD 4000 / GT 650M (Optimus), on Win8.1 64. The OpenCL stuff doesn't work if GT 650M is used; otherwise, it does. [...] I tried 332.21, 327.23, and 326.01 drivers, all mobile versions, all with the same results.

That is very weird. I also tested with Win8.1 64. But I used a dedicated GTX 650. With 327.23 drivers I get perfectly correct image output with all NNEDI3 related options and with error diffusion. With newer drivers everything is screwed up (either black screen or green tint).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deim0s

On version 0.87.4, playback of all my test 4k samples it became perfectly.
And with the queue settings: CPU - 16, GPU - 8, backbuffers - 3, playback too perfectly and mpc-hc not crash.
Thanks for your great work!

Great!

(Your quotes are still missing the ">" button.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

madshi, could you explain how 'chroma upscaling = NNEDI3' and 'image doubling, double Chroma resolution' relate when upscaling a video exactly 2x?

640x360 -> 1280x720

GPU load 37%
chroma upscaling = NNEDI3
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = NNEDI3
opencl dither = enabled

GPU load 34%
chroma upscaling = Catmull-Rom
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = NNEDI3
opencl dither = enabled

GPU load 28%
chroma upscaling = NNEDI3
image doubling luma = NNEDI3
image doubling chroma = disabled
opencl dither = enabled

Why does GPU load differ?

[Edit]
Same thing happens with GPU load changing when 'image doubling luma = NNEDI3' is active for 640x360->1280x720 2x scale, depending on the setting for 'image upscaling'.

I was under the impression that 'image doubling luma' & 'image doubling chroma' would override 'image upscaling' & 'chroma upscaling' when the video is resized to a 2x multiple.

Am I misunderstanding something?

The first step in the madVR rendering pipeline is always to convert all content to RGB. This is always done, totally ignoring what the image doubling, image upscaling and image downscaling options say. If you have a 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 source, the algorithm in the chroma upscaling settings page defines what madVR does to get from 4:2:0/4:2:2 to 4:4:4. This has nothing to do with image doubling or image upscaling.

Once the image is RGB, image doubling is performed (if the settings say so). There are basically 3 different ways how image doubling can be done:

(1) Either you only double/quadruple the luma channel, but not the chroma channels. For this to work, madVR converts the RGB video data back to YCbCr, then doubles/quadruples the resolution of the Y channel. Afterwords two further scaling operations are done: The Y channel is up- or downscaled to the final target resolution (this step is skipped if image doubling already reached the exact target resolution, of course). And the CbCr channels are upscaled to the final target resolution in a separate step. Both of these operations are performed using the algorithms specified in the image up/downscaling settings pages. Finally, the separate Y and CbCr channels are joined together again and converted back to RGB.

(2) Or you double both luma and chroma channels using NNEDI3. This makes it easier for madVR because it isn't necessary to do *separate* followup scaling operations for Y and CbCr channels. It's easier for madVR, but usually not faster, simply because letting NNEDI3 double 3 channels is much slower than letting it double only 1 channel. So although (1) is more complicated, it should usually be faster.

(3) Or you quadruple luma and double chroma. This is somewhat similar to (1), just a bit more complicated.

Hope that explains everything?

Generally when using image doubling I'd recommend not using Jinc for image upscaling because it would cost a lot of extra performance for very little quality benefit. E.g. Lanczos3AR or even BicubicAR should do fine as followup upscaling algorithms after image doubling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfrn

@madashi some good news MPCHC + v0.87.4 + Geforce 334.67 Betas I can use NNEID3 but picture is green with my GTX760 4GB

Quote:

Originally Posted by yok833

Same here with the last beta... Green screen with NNEDI3 chroma upscaling

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Thanks for the update, but while NNEDI3 now doesn't make the video output freeze completely anymore, I still get broken output

Running on a GeForce GTX 660 Ti with latest drivers (January 7, 2014).

Come on guys. Read the v0.87.4 announcement text!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

You should've read the release announcement to the end.

^ Exactly!!

Farfie · 27th January 2014, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Thanks for the update, but while NNEDI3 now doesn't make the video output freeze completely anymore, I still get broken output:
With NNEDI3 vs. No NNEDI3

Running on a GeForce GTX 660 Ti with latest drivers (January 7, 2014).

You still need to downgrade drivers even with 87.4.

Edit: man you guys are seriously too quick, madshi, nev. Seriously dedicated.

djfred93 · 27th January 2014, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

If I remember correctly, this problem occurred for you multiple times already in the past. I think this is very likely not a bug in madVR, but has some other cause specific to your PC. My first guess would be some other software making trouble. E.g. do you have some sort of Microsoft security software (anti-virus or similar) running? These are known to sometimes produce such problems.

It was Avast who was making trouble. Thanks for this advice and for the new version.

yok833 · 27th January 2014, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by yok833

Same here with the last beta... Green screen with NNEDI3 chroma upscaling
&
very dark picture (but no black screen) with image doubling <use NNEDI3 to double Luma resolution> enable

Error dithering & double chroma resolution = black screen

Windows 7 + gtx 660 ti

@Madshi
here is a my log if it can help.
Both Chroma & double luma NNEDI3 are activated

madshi · 27th January 2014, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yok833

@Madshi
here is a my log if it can help.
Both Chroma & double luma NNEDI3 are activated

Read the v0.87.4 announcement text!!!

cyberbeing · 27th January 2014, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

And the CbCr channels are upscaled to the final target resolution in a separate step. Both of these operations are performed using the algorithms specified in the image up/downscaling settings pages. Finally, the separate Y and CbCr channels are joined together again and converted back to RGB.

Could you clarify this separate scaling step for the CbCr channel? Does it use the 'chroma upscaling' setting or the 'image upscaling' setting?

Or what if the destination resolution after NNEDI3 luma is smaller than 2x? Does it use the 'chroma upscaling' setting or the 'image downscaling' setting on the CbCr channel?

Also when you have NNEDI3 double both luma and chroma, are you working in RGB or YCbCr? Is only the 'image upscaling|downscaling' setting and NOT the 'chroma upscaling' used to go from 2x to destination size?

I ask, since a long time ago you changed madVR so the 'chroma scaling' setting was only used for converting sub-sampled YCbCr -> 4:4:4, followed by 'image upscaling' scaling both luma & chroma together to destination resolution. If the 'chroma scaling' setting is no longer doing 2x only scaling with NNEDI, I'd need to completely reassess my chroma setting.

Side question. What is the behavior if you set both NNEDI3 doubling, and quadrupling to 'Always'? Is madVR smart enough to only quadruple for scale factors >2x, or does it only quadruple?

6233638 · 27th January 2014, 23:40

I don't know if you know this, but NNEDI3 scaling is still not working in the new builds on Nvidia cards.
Also, there seems to be a bug where the new OpenCL features are draining my wallet.

In all seriousness, the new dithering and NNEDI3 image doubling looks very nice.
NNEDI can look a bit artificial sometimes, but even when that is the case, the overall image is probably better than without it.

DarkSpace · 27th January 2014, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6233638

Also, there seems to be a bug where the new OpenCL features are draining my wallet.

It's not a bug. It's a feature!

flashmozzg · 27th January 2014, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6233638

I don't know if you know this, but NNEDI3 scaling is still not working in the new builds on Nvidia cards.
Also, there seems to be a bug where the new OpenCL features are draining my wallet.

In all seriousness, the new dithering and NNEDI3 image doubling looks very nice.
NNEDI can look a bit artificial sometimes, but even when that is the case, the overall image is probably better than without it.

Myabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

Read the v0.87.4 announcement text!!!

27th January 2014, 21:50	#22065 \| Link
antonyfrn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 17	@madashi some good news MPCHC + v0.87.4 + Geforce 334.67 Betas I can use NNEID3 but picture is green with my GTX760 4GB __________________ Windows 10 Pro 64Bit i7 6700k + H110i GT @4.6Ghz 16GB Corsar Vengance DDR4 EVGA GTX 970 FTW ACX 2.0 ASUS Maximus VIII Hero ASUS Xonar D2X

27th January 2014, 22:03	#22067 \| Link
cyberbeing Broadband Junkie Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,859	madshi, could you explain how 'chroma upscaling = NNEDI3' and 'image doubling, double Chroma resolution' relate when upscaling a video exactly 2x? 640x360 -> 1280x720 GPU load 37% chroma upscaling = NNEDI3 image doubling luma = NNEDI3 image doubling chroma = NNEDI3 opencl dither = enabled GPU load 34% chroma upscaling = Catmull-Rom image doubling luma = NNEDI3 image doubling chroma = NNEDI3 opencl dither = enabled GPU load 28% chroma upscaling = NNEDI3 image doubling luma = NNEDI3 image doubling chroma = disabled opencl dither = enabled Why does GPU load differ? [Edit] Same thing happens with GPU load changing when 'image doubling luma = NNEDI3' is active for 640x360->1280x720 2x scale, depending on the setting for 'image upscaling'. I was under the impression that 'image doubling luma' & 'image doubling chroma' would override 'image upscaling' & 'chroma upscaling' when the video is resized to a 2x multiple. Am I misunderstanding something? Last edited by cyberbeing; 27th January 2014 at 22:21.

27th January 2014, 20:52	#22061 \| Link
djfred93 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 32	MadVR don't load with the latest version, it is stuck at opening the file and it crash on the setting window. The debug don't work either. Log My system : Intel Core i7@920, Ati Radeon HD 5770, Windows 8.1, MPC-HC 1.7.2

27th January 2014, 23:40	#22078 \| Link
6233638 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,019	I don't know if you know this, but NNEDI3 scaling is still not working in the new builds on Nvidia cards. Also, there seems to be a bug where the new OpenCL features are draining my wallet. In all seriousness, the new dithering and NNEDI3 image doubling looks very nice. NNEDI can look a bit artificial sometimes, but even when that is the case, the overall image is probably better than without it.