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Old 20th June 2019, 16:04   #28561  |  Link
MrVideo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Blu-ray has restrictions regarding SAR, DAR and resolution, and adding borders for 16:9 DAR may be mandatory.
Correct, in order to display 4:3, the pillar-bars must be added, otherwise the 1440:1080 (4:3) will get stretched to 16:9.

As I previously posted, stretching 4:3 to fit 16:9 is horrible. Anyone doing that should be dipped in tar and then feathered.
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Old 20th June 2019, 21:12   #28562  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Why would you want to stretch a 4:3 image to 16:9? That ultimately creates "short fat people." Even worse, blow up the image and center cut it.
It doesn't stretch the picture. It takes a 16:9 segment out of the source and resizes it. So you lose some of the picture above and below the 16:9 window. You'd be surprised how you don't notice the sections that are lost. Sometimes it's better when you use WIDE_OFFSET to take more from the upper part of the original.

I use this sometimes to convert old 4:3 TV shows to 16:9. I typically use WIDE_OFFSET=85 so the centering is biased (by 15%) toward the top of the picture.

When you select this feature BD-RB makes all necessary adjustments and updates the CLPI and MPLS to reflect 16:9. It also sets aspect ratio information correctly when outputting to ALTERNATE formats.
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Old 21st June 2019, 00:26   #28563  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
You'd be surprised how you don't notice the sections that are lost.
I do notice and I hate it when professionals crop 4:3 to make 16:9. It was originally 4:3, leave it as 4:3.

The stretching mentioned in the response was in regards as to what Blu-ray players do with 1440:1080 material. I originally mentioned the cropping of 4:3 material as well, a couple of my posts ago.

But, that is me.
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Old 21st June 2019, 14:58   #28564  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Sometimes it's better when you use WIDE_OFFSET to take more from the upper part of the original.

I use this sometimes to convert old 4:3 TV shows to 16:9. I typically use WIDE_OFFSET=85 so the centering is biased (by 15%) toward the top of the picture.

When you select this feature BD-RB makes all necessary adjustments and updates the CLPI and MPLS to reflect 16:9. It also sets aspect ratio information correctly when outputting to ALTERNATE formats.
That should probable be WIDE_OFFSET=0.85 for a 15% reduction. And for the ALTERNATE formats goes that it only works on those where vFormat=7 is active.
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Old 21st June 2019, 23:37   #28565  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
You'd be surprised how you don't notice the sections that are lost. Sometimes it's better when you use WIDE_OFFSET to take more from the upper part of the original
I notice it also. I'm very picky when it comes to visuals and someone not doing it "right". Most people I know don't see a difference with video that is 4:3 and being displayed on 16:9 or like it, like some restaurants have their TVs set to. Normally I don't watch TV when at a restaurants when I'm with someone, disrespect to conversation to me. But you get the idea if you've seen the Off-ness of that. It bugs me a lot to see that kind of funky conversion.

@ MrVideo

"Short fat people"...Uhhhh-huh, funny to see.
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Old 22nd June 2019, 13:33   #28566  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
I do notice and I hate it when professionals crop 4:3 to make 16:9. It was originally 4:3, leave it as 4:3.

The stretching mentioned in the response was in regards as to what Blu-ray players do with 1440:1080 material. I originally mentioned the cropping of 4:3 material as well, a couple of my posts ago.

But, that is me.
An if it had been filmed in 16:9 originally? Would you miss the sections above and below that weren't filmed? What I notice and don't like are those black areas on the left and right of my screen when I play it back in 4:3. You don't miss something that isn't there.

It's interesting how people make a random decision about something like this and decide it is a violation of the laws of nature. Funny, actually.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 22nd June 2019 at 13:36.
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Old 22nd June 2019, 20:05   #28567  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
An if it had been filmed in 16:9 originally? Would you miss the sections above and below that weren't filmed?
Huh? That doesn't make any sense. If it was shot 16:9, how can you miss anything that is above/below? How about missing more stuff on the right/left to make a 2.40:1 image? No matter how you frame it, there is always more stuff all around what is shot. Whatever resolution was used, that is how it was shot and framed.
Quote:
What I notice and don't like are those black areas on the left and right of my screen when I play it back in 4:3. You don't miss something that isn't there.
Wow, this harks back to the old letterbox complaining days when video tapes and DVDs were released that contained letterbox bars on the top and bottom. People complained that their TV screen wasn't filled with the image. Were you one of those? If it was shot in 4:3, I want all of that 4:3 image on my screen. Pillar bars do not bother me. If letterbox bars do not bother you, why should pillar bars?
Quote:
It's interesting how people make a random decision about something like this and decide it is a violation of the laws of nature. Funny, actually.
Not a random decision.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 15:39   #28568  |  Link
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Huh? That doesn't make any sense. If it was shot 16:9, how can you miss anything that is above/below? How about missing more stuff on the right/left to make a 2.40:1 image? No matter how you frame it, there is always more stuff all around what is shot. Whatever resolution was used, that is how it was shot and framed.
Sigh... you seem to also be an expert at missing the point.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 16:35   #28569  |  Link
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There seems to be a problem with multiplexing.
Quote:
----------------------
[06.23.19] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.60.04
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 522,45GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.6.0.6, Ok
- LAVFILTERS: Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- X265: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[06.23.19] Systems Settings Check complete
[06.23.19] BD Rebuilder v0.60.04
[15:52:55] Source: AQUAMAN
- Input BD size: 79,55 GB
- Approximate total content: [02:36:44.978]
- Target BD size: 22,95 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Quality: High-Speed Option (BD-25+), ABR
- Decoding/Frame serving: FFMPEG
- Audio Settings: AC3=1 DTS=1 HD=1 Kbs=640
[15:52:57] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [15:52:57] Processing: VID_00008 (1 of 2)
- [15:52:57] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00008]
- [15:53:02] Reencoding video [VID_00008]
- Source Video: HEVC, 3840x2160
- Rate/Length: 23,976fps, 8.184 frames
- Bitrate: 1.409 Kbs
- [15:53:02] Reencoding: VID_00008, Pass 1 of 1
- [16:00:15] Video Encode complete
- [16:00:15] Processing audio tracks
- [16:00:15] Multiplexing M2TS
- Error in attempt to multiplex: MUX_00008.meta
- Can't open file: G:\TEMP\WORKFILES\VID_00008_2.AVS.264
[16:00:19] - Failed to build structure, aborted
The mentioned file isn't there but there is one without the .264 in the end. (If I add the .264 renaming the file during reencode, the multiplexing seems fine)
If I set the output size larger than input, I get a slightly different result:
Quote:
[06.23.19] BD Rebuilder v0.60.04
[16:12:52] Source: AQUAMAN
- Input BD size: 79,55 GB
- Approximate total content: [02:36:44.978]
- Target BD size: 87,89 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Quality: High-Speed Option (BD-25+), ABR
- Decoding/Frame serving: FFMPEG
- Audio Settings: AC3=1 DTS=1 HD=1 Kbs=640
[16:12:57] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [16:12:57] Processing: VID_00008 (1 of 2)
- [16:12:57] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00008]
- [16:13:01] Reencoding video [VID_00008]
- [16:13:01] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [16:13:01] Processing audio tracks
- [16:13:01] Multiplexing M2TS
- Error in attempt to multiplex: MUX_00008.meta
- Can't open file: G:\TEMP\WORKFILES\00008.track_4117.mpv
[16:13:05] - Failed to build structure, aborted
The file mentioned isn't there either.
Some pages back in the thread I saw the same discussion, but setting MULTIPROCESS=0 doesn't solve the issue.
I'm sure I'm just missing a hidden option, but I can't find it.
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Old 24th June 2019, 02:15   #28570  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Sigh... you seem to also be an expert at missing the point.
Then you didn't make your point very plain.

You didn't respond to my comment about letterboxing. You can't be OK with one and not the other.

Whatever aspect ratio it was shot in should be the aspect ratio that is displayed. If you want to view 4:3 as 16:9, without stretching, then use the zoom control on your TV to blow up the 4:3 to fill the screen.

Let me add this: You'd be very happy to take a great movie classic, like Gone With the Wind, and crop the top & bottom in order to fill your 16:9 screen.
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Old 24th June 2019, 03:42   #28571  |  Link
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@cartman0208

That problem sounds vaguely familiar. I got a couple donations this month. I'll pick up a copy of Aquaman and give it a try. Can you post your settings (from BDREBUILDER.INI) so I can make sure we're on the same page?
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Old 24th June 2019, 03:45   #28572  |  Link
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There's a considerable difference between "Gone With The Wind" and watching some old episodes of "The Brady Bunch". Let's agree to disagree.
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:22   #28573  |  Link
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To me it is all one and the same. I don't think that the producers of The Brady Bunch will appreciate that you, or anyone who does the cropping, thinks that their show isn't deserving of the full 4:3 viewing treatment.

But yes, we will never agree on this matter.
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Old 24th June 2019, 11:48   #28574  |  Link
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Thanks, I just "re-installed" BDRebuilder, left all settings at default except the selected audio tracks and multiprocessing ... the result is the same.
I also tried with Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald ... with the same outcome.
Quote:
[Options]
VERSION=0.60.0.4
ENCODER=0
MODE=0
ENCODE_QUALITY=5
ONEPASS_ENCODING=2
AUTO_QUALITY=0
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=deu;eng;ger;
SUBS_TO_KEEP=all
SD_CONVERT=0
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
IGNORE_3D=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=0
AC3_REENCODE=0
AC3_640=1
AC3_192=0
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=0
AUDIO_DRC=0
DECODER=0
AVCHD=1
REMOVE_WORKFILES=0
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=0
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
OUTPUT_SBS=0
NEROAAC=0
SUPTITLE=0
PGSTOSRT=0
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=1
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=1
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=23500
TARGET_SIZE=47366
PRIORITY_CLASS=0
MULTIPROCESS=0
[Paths]
WORKING_PATH=G:\TEMP\
SOURCE_PATH=V:\FULLDISC\AQUAMAN\

Last edited by cartman0208; 24th June 2019 at 12:00.
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Old 25th June 2019, 05:51   #28575  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Huh? That doesn't make any sense. If it was shot 16:9, how can you miss anything that is above/below? How about missing more stuff on the right/left to make a 2.40:1 image? No matter how you frame it, there is always more stuff all around what is shot. Whatever resolution was used, that is how it was shot and framed.
MrVideo.. I understand what JD is getting across. It's a challenging one for people whom are hyper analytical and intuitive based, and NOT into "Instincts" at all. As said to my Girlfriend to myself, and myself to her.. Haaa! Maybe this will get across. When you see stuff outside the Camera Eye it's not recorded, and a producer sees those. Attempts to get as much as possible into the shot. S/he knows what's outside of the lines on the Camera..but we Don't...unless we watch the "Making Of". If you're really anal about it all..you can become so fixated on the differences between the resolutions that you miss the content that's actually there.

Quote:
Wow, this harks back to the old letterbox complaining days when video tapes and DVDs were released that contained letterbox bars on the top and bottom. People complained that their TV screen wasn't filled with the image. Were you one of those? If it was shot in 4:3, I want all of that 4:3 image on my screen. Pillar bars do not bother me. If letterbox bars do not bother you, why should pillar bars?

Not a random decision.
I had a real problem with Letter box and not...for a few years. With Betamax, VHS, and DVDs. When I discovered that Letterbox _actually_ included the entire scene as the maker intended, I was Goooooood...even though I had to look a bit closer. I could "see" everything, not anymore P&S, errmm...stuff anymore.

Nothing is truly random and nothing is pre-planned on a huge level, but for the scope of most people..people R.I.P. and things happen by "chance" and everything is pre-determined. -- When you resize, is what you want still there IN the new size? Or is something cut from the image?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Sigh... you seem to also be an expert at missing the point.
Haha...aren't we all...at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
To me it is all one and the same. I don't think that the producers of The Brady Bunch will appreciate that you, or anyone who does the cropping, thinks that their show isn't deserving of the full 4:3 viewing treatment.

But yes, we will never agree on this matter.
He means there are differences between Film and TV in respects to cropping.
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Last edited by AmigaFuture; 25th June 2019 at 05:59.
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Old 25th June 2019, 13:42   #28576  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
To me it is all one and the same. I don't think that the producers of The Brady Bunch will appreciate that you, or anyone who does the cropping, thinks that their show isn't deserving of the full 4:3 viewing treatment.

But yes, we will never agree on this matter.
And, again... sigh...
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Old 25th June 2019, 22:56   #28577  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
And, again... sigh...
Having second thoughts about restarting?
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Old 25th June 2019, 23:45   #28578  |  Link
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And, again... sigh...
Boy...you have mellowed with age! I can remember a time when you did not suffer fools as gracefully as you seem to now.
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Old 26th June 2019, 03:06   #28579  |  Link
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Originally Posted by AmigaFuture View Post
He means there are differences between Film and TV in respects to cropping.
IMHO, one is not more deserving over the other.
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Old 29th June 2019, 16:06   #28580  |  Link
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I'd love to be able to take a movie that includes shifting aspect ratios and run it through BD Rebuilder having it reencode the video, so that the end result is a fixed aspect ratio.

An example would be a movie in the 2.40:1 aspect ratio where in just a couple scenes the aspect ratio opens up to 1.78:1. Would love to be able to reencode the video so that the entire film is in 2.40:1 instead, the IMAX portions above and below the 2.40:1 portion being replaced with black bars as is the case with the rest of the film.

I watch movies using a front projector and 150" 1.78:1 projector screen. For aspect ratios north or south of 1.78:1 I mask down to the projected image area with black velvet masking. I'm not interested in leaving unused portions of my projector screen unmasked for the entire length of a scope film because for a couple minutes during the film the aspect ratio jumps to 1.78:1.

Curious to learn how feasible such an option might be for BD Rebuilder or if anyone knows, how I might go about accomplishing the same with other tools out there.
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