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Old 24th September 2019, 13:45   #261  |  Link
Gadgety
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Thank you, chros! The link in the post shows the table containing this piece of information: if (srcHeight < 577) and (deintFps < 26) "0576p25".

Prior to that it says:

-d3d11 mode in LAV video (madvr image processing is much faster compared to the other modes)
- hdr passthrough to 4k hdr display
- in nVidia panel
-- power management set to "Adaptive"
-- output: RGB, FULL, 12bit


I read that as when inputting below 577 in height your 1060 is still able to output RGB, FULL, 12 bit. Is my understanding correct?

Last edited by Gadgety; 24th September 2019 at 13:49.
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Old 24th September 2019, 15:16   #262  |  Link
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Of course But instead of guessing, wait for your new card and then you can try out everything
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Old 24th September 2019, 15:59   #263  |  Link
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OK, wow, so the 1060 has enough power to take SD to 4k on a 55 inch screen, and it looks like image and chroma upscaling, NGU Sharp, High Quality, at 25 frames a second, and even faster rates, is my understanding correct? Of course my understanding is rather coarse. Are there auxiliary settings you set lower in order to accomplish this? I think I saw somewhere that HDR tone mapping requires at least a GTX1660 6GB, or from the RTX2060 and up. So, if I forego the RTX series, a 1660 would suffice?

Last edited by Gadgety; 24th September 2019 at 17:16.
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Old 25th September 2019, 16:50   #264  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadgety View Post
OK, wow, so the 1060 has enough power to take SD to 4k on a 55 inch screen, and it looks like image and chroma upscaling, NGU Sharp, High Quality, at 25 frames a second, and even faster rates, is my understanding correct?
Yes, link, although you don't want to use Sharp with <=720p content, but AA (maybe Standard).

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Originally Posted by Gadgety View Post
Are there auxiliary settings you set lower in order to accomplish this?
No, but you can see it on those screenshots.

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Originally Posted by Gadgety View Post
I think I saw somewhere that HDR tone mapping requires at least a GTX1660 6GB, or from the RTX2060 and up. So, if I forego the RTX series, a 1660 would suffice?
I don't know about 1660, I think it doesn't have any tensor core, so if that's true then no point of buying it.
But IMO there's no point of using madvr's HDR tone mapping either with a HDR capable display (like yours) but simply using passthrough. You can read more about it from here through 5 pages.
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Old 26th September 2019, 06:22   #265  |  Link
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Thank you very much, chros!
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Old 14th October 2019, 13:54   #266  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saracas View Post
Yea, the PC mode flaws are annoying. I have a huge macro in my remote to rename the input every single time I watch HDR... then rename it back after I am done.
They really need to add a easier solution to switch in/out of PC mode.


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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Hum no, they need to fix 4:4:4 RGB support so it doesn't suffer worse image quality than 4:2:2 YCC.
+1 (but probably it won't happen anytime soon )

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Originally Posted by saracas View Post
I hope they'll start focusing on the bugs PC mode has.
We can only hope and pray

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Originally Posted by thighhighs View Post
Why HDR playback should be affected at all in this mode? PC mode was designed for general desktop usage and gaming.
Because of the increased amount of data to process (4:4:4 vs 4:2:2). Ted thinks that all is happening because of the WeobOS UI.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
They're using a lower quality image processing in PC mode compared to other modes, so in practice you have to choose between 4:4:4 RGB and good image quality.
"good image quality"

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Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
Out of curiosity, how does these two pictures look on an LG OLED in PC Mode when displaying it at 100% size (1:1 Pixel)?
http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/2...test-4k-tv.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
What @chros was referring to was a statement made by Ted over at AVS, claiming that the LGs don't do a perfect 4:4:4, but very close. Nevertheless, chroma patterns are displayed without (noticeable) sub-sampling.
That's not true: "this can be visible on the yellow and the bottom row text of Quick brown fox image", just look closer and pay attention (SDR or HDR mode, doesn't matter) and you'll notice red small artifacts (I also missed it at first). So, yes, it's visible, but not from 3 metres

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Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
Only LG OLEDs are affected or also LCD based TVs from LG? Is it year depending?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
There is no difference between models and years, as far as we can tell.
Yes, that's right, all of them are the same, and it seems that every LG TV that uses WebOS UI (see above), but I'm not sure about the latter.

But that's just 1 issue out of who knows how many (not necessarily just LG related), e.g.:
- chrominance overshoot (aka "macroblock flashing")
- can't profile/calibrate HDR mode
- near black banding
- tinting
- at least 3 ABL algos
- and this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
... my LG has issues in PC mode but these started quote late into the updates, probably only last year, it was fine initially
As it turned out LG tend to screw up things in later firmwares and they just leave it there as it is for half year/forever: e.g. gamma screw up (black crush) in B8/C8/E8 firmwares. And they (smartly) removed the possibility to revert a firmware in the latest ones!

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Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
How about Panasonic OLED ... TVs?
They don't have 1 thing that I definitely need: judder free 23p playback in PC mode. @huhn told us this back in the day but I didn't *want* to believe it
If the above is not important then this year models can be interesting since finally they also have Dolby Vision.

@jk82 tested it on GZ2000:
- fixed chrominance overshoot
- chroma 4:4:4 in PC mode
- better near black banding than LG

But if you think that finally a good manufacturer then think again: he has sent back 2 sets in 3 weeks and that was the pricey flagship model!
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Old 14th October 2019, 15:50   #267  |  Link
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They don't have 1 thing that I definitely need: judder free 23p playback in PC mode. @huhn told us this back in the day but I didn't *want* to believe it
it's been a couple of years it's just sad to hear that this is still the case.

they have an far above avg user support her in german if you don't contact them using the normal contacts i tried it may self the technician instantly knew what i was talking about but could only point the TV may not have to be able to do this "correctly".

there is one company that at least tries and that's sony are they perfect no far from it but it's not hard to be better then the rest.

processing power limitation is just none sense proper 4:4:4 processing could be done atleast 10 years ago no much longer and now we have big number x times processing power in these TVs. the only reason they don't change is people will still buy there TVs so why care.
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Old 21st October 2019, 03:54   #268  |  Link
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With test build v103, I can't see any detail loss with "don't desaturate" for DCI-P3 and 760 peak nits on my LG C8.
All is good
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:05   #269  |  Link
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Quietvoid - could you post what settings you're seeing good results with? I've got it setup for my JVC x9000 but want to see how I can tweak the settings for my OLED.
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Old 21st October 2019, 11:54   #270  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietvoid View Post
With test build v103, I can't see any detail loss with "don't desaturate" for DCI-P3 and 760 peak nits on my LG C8.
All is good
Nice to hear it, I saw that @SamuriHL stated something similar as well
As @RXP asked it, can you post your full hdr settings (on avsforum is easier I think), and:
- do you still see flicker / brightness changes during normal content?
- which content did you watch?
- have you compared it to passthrough?

Thanks!
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Old 21st October 2019, 13:11   #271  |  Link
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These are my settings:

I have not tested regular content, just watched the S&M UHD Benchmark demos once while comparing on/off.
There's a significant saturation boost for the Eagle scene, the beak keeps all the yellow instead of being white.

With HSTM, there's much more depth compared to static tonemapping. Passthrough probably looks closer to static tonemapped (dynamic target nits unchecked).

Last edited by quietvoid; 21st October 2019 at 13:14.
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Old 21st October 2019, 13:29   #272  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietvoid View Post
I have not tested regular content, just watched the S&M UHD Benchmark demos once while comparing on/off.
There's a significant saturation boost for the Eagle scene, the beak keeps all the yellow instead of being white.

With HSTM, there's much more depth compared to static tonemapping. Passthrough probably looks closer to static tonemapped (dynamic target nits unchecked).
Thanks, then I'll wait for a usable version instead Keep us updated ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Retesting now with GotG.
713 for passthrough, 669 with 760 nit tone mapping for GotG.
Thanks for testing, exactly what I got on my B8 (well, apart from the exact code value, since they're different between the B8 vs C8).

I tried to rephrase it in this post, if you still don't understand what we want to test/prove with it, then just ask
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Old 21st October 2019, 23:44   #273  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietvoid View Post
With test build v103, I can't see any detail loss with "don't desaturate" for DCI-P3 and 760 peak nits on my LG C8.
All is good
It's slightly oversaturated but really close. I watched Dark Knight Rises with it yesterday and just WOW what a fantastic job. I think we need some place in between don't desaturate and 1 and we'll have that nailed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Nice to hear it, I saw that @SamuriHL stated something similar as well
As @RXP asked it, can you post your full hdr settings (on avsforum is easier I think), and:
- do you still see flicker / brightness changes during normal content?
- which content did you watch?
- have you compared it to passthrough?

Thanks!
Yea, they've been doing remarkable work in the past few builds. It's really come a long way. And I want to point out something....this is with the live algo. We're not using the measurement files at this point. No flickering anymore with a setting of 1000 on build 103. I've not checked to see if there's been any updates today as I've been stuck at work all day.

I watched Dark Knight Rises as mentioned and I don't know what you mean by "compare it to passthrough" cause passthrough doesn't even come close. LOL
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Old 21st October 2019, 23:55   #274  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Thanks for testing, exactly what I got on my B8 (well, apart from the exact code value, since they're different between the B8 vs C8).

I tried to rephrase it in this post, if you still don't understand what we want to test/prove with it, then just ask
I see what you want to do but I have no way of testing it. Would be nice if I had an HD Fury cause i could throw it on the UB820 but that isn't possible. I did read the later discussion, too, about it not being a super accurate calculation due to the possibility of 1 to several bright pixels being left in a frame. madshi calculates a 99% value for it that should help with that. I know soulnight's tool that works on the measurement files allow you to specify what you want to use which is rather handy. I don't have the time right now but you might want to check using an older madvr test build (measurement files are currently messed up afaik) and using soulnight's tool to specify the value you want to use. See if that changes anything. It may not.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 10:59   #275  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietvoid View Post
These are my settings:

I have not tested regular content, just watched the S&M UHD Benchmark demos once while comparing on/off.
There's a significant saturation boost for the Eagle scene, the beak keeps all the yellow instead of being white.

With HSTM, there's much more depth compared to static tonemapping. Passthrough probably looks closer to static tonemapped (dynamic target nits unchecked).
Does Histogram Shaped Tone Mapping work with HDR output? There is no need to scale the target nits with passthrough. It should always be 760 nits PQ 1:1. HSTM is supposed to scale with the gamma curve.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 11:57   #276  |  Link
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It definitely works with HDR output. Very well, in fact. I don't use passthrough at all.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Old 22nd October 2019, 13:38   #277  |  Link
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I don't understand what it is doing to the HDR output. The dynamic target nits takes the tone mapped BT.2390 PQ tone curve and scales the entire source range to fit the entire display gamma curve. This shouldn't be necessary with HDR output to a display using a fixed PQ curve.

For example, if the target nits is 1,000 nits and the display nits is 100 nits, the entire image is compressed at a ratio of 10:1. So the image is 10x darker than the original source values. If the target nits drops to 200 nits, then the entire image is scaled to 100 nits at a 2:1 ratio. Why would you want to scale the entire source range when using HDR output?

HDR output should only be compressing the specular highlights with a straightforward PQ tone mapping curve. There is no need to expand some parts of the image and compress others after the roll-off is applied.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 13:39   #278  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I watched Dark Knight Rises as mentioned and I don't know what you mean by "compare it to passthrough" cause passthrough doesn't even come close. LOL
I'm glad to hear it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
No flickering anymore with a setting of 1000 on build 103.
Although I've read about more issues, so I'll wait until it will be fully usable.

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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Does Histogram Shaped Tone Mapping work with HDR output? There is no need to scale the target nits with passthrough. It should always be 760 nits PQ 1:1. HSTM is supposed to scale with the gamma curve.
Hm, interesting thought.

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I see what you want to do but I have no way of testing it.
...
you might want to check using an older madvr test build (measurement files are currently messed up afaik) and using soulnight's tool to specify the value you want to use. See if that changes anything. It may not.
There's no need for it. Let me try to explain one more (and last) time
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Old 22nd October 2019, 15:02   #279  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I don't understand what it is doing to the HDR output. The dynamic target nits takes the tone mapped BT.2390 PQ tone curve and scales the entire source range to fit the entire display gamma curve. This shouldn't be necessary with HDR output to a display using a fixed PQ curve.

For example, if the target nits is 1,000 nits and the display nits is 100 nits, the entire image is compressed at a ratio of 10:1. So the image is 10x darker than the original source values. If the target nits drops to 200 nits, then the entire image is scaled to 100 nits at a 2:1 ratio. Why would you want to scale the entire source range when using HDR output?

HDR output should only be compressing the specular highlights with a straightforward PQ tone mapping curve. There is no need to expand some parts of the image and compress others after the roll-off is applied.
You would have to ask madshi on this one. What I do know is it makes a difference, even with HDR output. We were losing shadow detail and these latest builds have brought that back. I can't claim to know the technical details on this at all. But I can clearly see a very large improvement in PQ with these latest builds.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 15:19   #280  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I don't understand what it is doing to the HDR output. The dynamic target nits takes the tone mapped BT.2390 PQ tone curve and scales the entire source range to fit the entire display gamma curve. This shouldn't be necessary with HDR output to a display using a fixed PQ curve.
I don't know it either, ask madshi, you made me/us curious.
This is how I can imagine: compressing the range happens before applying the gamma curve on it.

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HDR output should only be compressing the specular highlights with a straightforward PQ tone mapping curve. There is no need to expand some parts of the image and compress others after the roll-off is applied.
Maybe it happens before the roll-off.
Well, the current HTSM algo touches everything not just the highlights, and we use 760 nits as real peak nits.
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