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Old 23rd October 2016, 07:58   #1  |  Link
Lathe
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processing a file that is 720p at 29.97 fps...

Heh, it should have told me something when I did a search for the above title and of all the results that I got back, not ONE was from Doom9, Videohelp, Afterdawn, nothing...

So, I'm pretty much guessing that this file that I have which is at a 720p resolution and at a frame rate of 29.97 is likely NOT supposed to be that way...

I mean, it looks pretty good. It's an old film that is not commercially available and I GUESS since it is progressive (as shown by MediInfo) when I stepped through it frame by frame I didn't see any blurring or combing or anything like that. Soooooo, I'm wanting to run it through a few Avisynth filters, nothing heavy, but I'm kind of thinking that before I do that I really need to know what I should do about this resolution at this frame rate, because I'm pretty darn sure that it is NOT part of the Blu-ray standard.

Since it is not telecined (I think) I cannot really IVTC it I'm pretty sure, right? So, I guess I can take a snippet of it and run it through TSMuxer and put it into a BDMV folder to see how my OPPO will play it or how it will look.

Anyway, any suggestions as to what I should do first?

Thanks!
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:05   #2  |  Link
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Upload a sample of few second duration
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:19   #3  |  Link
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Uh... if it's not interlaced nor telecined and there aren't any interlacing issues (combing/blending) but you still think there's something "weird", it might be because of dups. I would say to run TDecimate and let the filter automatically guess whether a frame is a dup or not, btw I don't actually know how accurate will it be, considering it's an old material...
Besides, you mentioned the Blu-ray standard; are you actually trying to make a Blu-ray? Because although Blu-ray discs are almost all progressive, they could be interlaced as well, in fact old discs used to be like that.
Anyway, upload a sample so that we can see what's that about and we can make a script for you.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:32   #4  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
...when I stepped through it frame by frame I didn't see any blurring or combing or anything like that.
Did you look for dupe frames? Every five frames? Because films, by definition, aren't 29.97fps. If you can get it back to 23.976fps then you have a file that can be made into a Blu-Ray keeping both resolution and framerate.

Anyway, as suggested, if you can't figure it out yourself, 10 seconds of the video, a sample with steady movement, will be enough for others to decide what you have and how it should be treated.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:41   #5  |  Link
Lathe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranceBB View Post
Uh... if it's not interlaced nor telecined and there aren't any interlacing issues (combing/blending) but you still think there's something "weird", it might be because of dups. I would say to run TDecimate and let the filter automatically guess whether a frame is a dup or not, btw I don't actually know how accurate will it be, considering it's an old material...
Besides, you mentioned the Blu-ray standard; are you actually trying to make a Blu-ray? Because although Blu-ray discs are almost all progressive, they could be interlaced as well, in fact old discs used to be like that.
Anyway, upload a sample so that we can see what's that about and we can make a script for you.
Thanks kindly to both of you.

Yeah I took a snippet and put it in a BDMV folder and it seemed to play just fine on my OPPO player. There were a FEW instances where it looked like the frame jumped a little, but overall it seemed okay. On another thread where a guy was asking about converting from 29.xxxp to 23.xxxp the person said 'why...? 29p should run perfectly smoothly' So maybe I really don't need to do anything. I'm just pretty sure the 720p and 29.xxx frame rate are likely not supposed to go together. I'll attach or link a snippet. Basically all I really want to do is do some simple tweak stuff (uh, Avisynth, not the drug...) because the picture is a bit washed out.

I chose a snippet where there is some good movement...

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/split.9.m2ts
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:45   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
Did you look for dupe frames? Every five frames? Because films, by definition, aren't 29.97fps. If you can get it back to 23.976fps then you have a file that can be made into a Blu-Ray keeping both resolution and framerate.

Anyway, as suggested, if you can't figure it out yourself, 10 seconds of the video, a sample with steady movement, will be enough for others to decide what you have and how it should be treated.
Yeah, from some reading I got the idea that some kind of 'decimating' gets rid of the xtra frames, etc. I need to learn more about that. Fortunately MOST of the stuff that I have like this that I want to mess around with is usually DVD Mpeg capture stuff at the usual DVD specs. But, this one was different...

Sorry, I snipped it into 1 minute segments. Next time I will make them smaller. I think this one is about 25 Megs.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 08:59   #7  |  Link
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Sorry, I can't download your file. Did you upload it to a file hoster?

When you step through the frames do you see a repetitive pattern of progressive frames like A B C D D E F G H H I J K L L .... (DD, HH, LL represent duplicated frames). If so, it would be 2-2-2-4 hard telecined 24p film. But unless we get a sample it's all speculative .....

Last edited by Sharc; 23rd October 2016 at 11:11.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 12:47   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
I chose a snippet where there is some good movement...

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/split.9.m2ts
Good sample. I don't know what you're viewing this with, but it's pretty clear that the original was 3:2 hard-telecined. The clueless idiot that made this video used field-blend deinterlacing to digitally immortalize and publicly advertise his mistake. There's nothing you can do about it. View it frame by frame and you'll see field-blending ghosting on motion frames in 2 of every 5 frames.

Your OPPO can play it as a "video-data-only" mt2s. But you can't author and burn it to disc as official 720p BluRay.

Last edited by LemMotlow; 23rd October 2016 at 12:52.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 13:26   #9  |  Link
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+1
This file is has been hopelessly butchered. Poor Humphrey ...
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Old 23rd October 2016, 13:33   #10  |  Link
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I agree with LemMotlow.

Go, for instance, to frame 79 of your sample, is more or less perfect. Also frames 80 and 81.
Frame 82 is a mix of two original frames.
Frame 83 is clearly a mix of two frames from different planes, the original one have two fields that can be separated, but here are blended and encoded as progressive.

All your sample follow the same order 3 frames OK, 2 frames blended.
You can't recover the original fields to do a inverse telecined 29.97 -> 23.976
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Old 23rd October 2016, 14:14   #11  |  Link
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Code:
selectevery(5,0,1,4)
changefps(23.976)
throws away the blended frames but leaves you with a very jerky playback.
One could perhaps try to interpolate instead of frame repeat..... new artefacts are likely though ....
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Old 23rd October 2016, 15:18   #12  |  Link
wonkey_monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemMotlow View Post
There's nothing you can do about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
You can't recover the original fields
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
This file is has been hopelessly butchered. Poor Humphrey ...
Wow, you guys are such a bunch of quitters





Work in progress.
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Last edited by wonkey_monkey; 23rd October 2016 at 16:07. Reason: Slightly better images
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Old 23rd October 2016, 16:13   #13  |  Link
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Just out of interest, I decided to try Exblend() v1.03 Beta2, and it seems to be producing a reasonable level of success (about 94.0% blend detect [EDIT: Ideally about 96% or more]).
Although your sample is somewhat static (not much movement so not really good short clip for testing).

Here:- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...hlight=exblend

ExBlend not intended for this type of blending, but seems to be working OK.

EDIT:
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Old 23rd October 2016, 16:55   #14  |  Link
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I had some success with

Code:
srestore(frate=23.976,omode="pp3").tdecimate()
It produces 23.976p but leaves some artefacts.

Code:
QTGMC(InputType=3,Preset="fast")
helps to clean these up.

Last edited by Sharc; 23rd October 2016 at 17:26.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 17:04   #15  |  Link
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I'd just buy the DVD. Life's too short to spend it fixing unnecessary mistakes. There are too many idiots out there with computers. I rtecofded that movie off TCM with a DVD recorder at 6200kbps -- looks sharper than the 720p, which is starting to look like blown-up VHS.

Last edited by LemMotlow; 23rd October 2016 at 17:22.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 17:05   #16  |  Link
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My code (now that I've tidied it up a bit):

Code:
function humph_unblend(clip clip) {
	a=clip.trim(0,-1)+clip
	b=clip
	c=clip.trim(1,0)
	d=clip.trim(2,0)

	y8_rpn(a,b,c,d,"
if n 5 % 2 == then
	[c1] [c2] + [c0] [c3] + 0.5 * -
else
	[c1]
endif
")

	selectevery(5,0,1,2,4)
}
Requires rgba_rpn/y8_rpn 0.2beta, and is hardcoded to work only when the first of each pair of blended frames falls on a frame whose decimal number ends in "2" or "7" (which is the case for the sample).
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Old 23rd October 2016, 21:04   #17  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
...when I stepped through it frame by frame I didn't see any blurring or combing or anything like that.
Do you understand why, whenever asking for help with a video, you should always - always - post a sample? And not one that consists of people mostly talking but one with steady movement? What you said was dead wrong as 40% of the frames are blended (blurry). It's only seen when there's movement but it explains what went wrong (LemMotlow was the first to define the problem), and once the problem is known, the fix can also be discovered. Like StainlessS, I'd go with ExBlend followed by the decimation:

ExBlend().TDecimate()

That'll give you 23.976fps and it's ready for Blu-Ray.
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Old 23rd October 2016, 21:27   #18  |  Link
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Oh my God! Guys... I feel so frigg'n awful about this... I thought that maybe I could discreetly fix this and learn something, but as horribly embarrassing as it is, I have to be brutally honest and admit that I was the wretched, vile culprit who did this...

I am so sorry... But, I was just recently starting to learn Avisynth and I humbly admit that the first few times I BELIEVED MediaInfo that the information was interlaced and I used BDRB's decomb / deinterlace script on it. Fortunately, I only did this to I THINK 3 films before I learned differently.

GEEZ... I feel so bad causing all you guys all this trouble

BUT... the good news (IF any of you are still 'speaking' to me, that is...) I was working with an ISO backed up on one of my many HDDs and it was taken from discs that I received in one of my many, many trades with other collectors. Thankfully, since there is at least ONE bloody thing I do moderately well, I have everything categorized and know pretty much where everything is. So, I found the ORIGINAL disc which has the print BEFORE I so brilliantly P*$$ed all over it. I took MakeMKV and extracted another UNtainted MKV file of the film and I posted a snipped (hopefully with more motion) on my site.

So, if I haven't COMPLETELY destroyed whatever good will MIGHT be left here, I will include what I'm guessing will be a much better snipped of the film. I'm guessing (not that my thoughts have any credibility any more...) that this is just basically telecined like most my other films like this, since just about all of them were captured by some DVD device, I believe.

Please forgive my stupidity, and I frigg'n PROMISE never ever to do that again now that I know...

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/knock.mkv
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Old 23rd October 2016, 21:48   #19  |  Link
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But are you really sorry?

It's okay, I forgive you. For your sample, this is all you need to fix it:

Code:
separatefields
selectevery(5,0,1,2,3) # or (5,0,1,2,4), or (5,0,1,3,4), or (5,0,2,3,4), or (5,1,2,3,4)
weave
For different starting points you may need to adjust which number of 0-4 you remove in the selectevery (I've listed the possibilities).
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Old 23rd October 2016, 22:12   #20  |  Link
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TFM().TDecimate()
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