Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th February 2018, 09:33   #48941  |  Link
stefanelli73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
3D

My system is now fully stable for 3D, no more messing around with batch files, dropping into 1080p etc etc, no dropped frames, just perfect playback. I mentioned this before and i'm hoping MADSHI will get chance to look at it at some point. MADVR refresh rate switching for 3D is broken, at least for AMD cards so i've switched to using it in my player instead, MPC / KODI DS. Now all my 3D movies, start, skip and stop correctly and smoothly with no loss of HDMI and no machine crashes.

If you are a bg 3D fan and your're not a gamer I would certainly recommend and AMD card over Nvidia, the caveat being the AMD cards tend to have less processing ability so you are slightly limited to what MADVR goodies you can throw at it.
Hello, could you kindly tell me what you did exactly to have a stable 3d without dropped frames? I have an AMD RX480
stefanelli73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 14:00   #48942  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanelli73 View Post
Hello, could you kindly tell me what you did exactly to have a stable 3d without dropped frames? I have an AMD RX480
yeah sure.

Firsty if you press control J what do the first two lines say, it should say something like:

display 23,97598hz
composition rate 23,976
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 14:37   #48943  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
Using madvr on files on my PC I have no dropped frames but with dvd discs I've a lot of them, continuously increasing as the movie goes on.
I also have something weird happening with DVDs and madVR, while playing SD MPEG2 TS files always work just fine. I have posted screens of the OSD showing an issue but nobody noticed/had any answere unfortunately: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...13#post1832113

Try pausing/unpausing your DVD playback a few times, or seeking a few seconds back. When I do that it usually stops dropping frames. I have no explanation for this.
__________________
HTPC: E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti, DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60 | Desktop: 4690K, Radeon 7870, Dell U2713HM | Windows 1709, MediaPortal/MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR | Laptop: i5-2520M, Windows Insider
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 15:44   #48944  |  Link
steakhutzeee
Registered User
 
steakhutzeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Post screenshot of your OSD. Check CPU and GPU loads make sure nothing is ~80+%
Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't know how to check gpu load.

[SPOILER]

[/SPOILER]

Tried to pause/unpause like @el Filou suggested but nothing changed.

Don't know why but with dvd I can't select a specific point of the playback in the seekbar. I can skip to next/previous chapter tho. I use mpc be and with vlc I can instead. This is off topic I think but maybe you know why this happens.

Thanks!
__________________
Intel i5-4590 - MSI R9 270X 2GB - 8GB RAM

Last edited by steakhutzeee; 10th February 2018 at 15:50.
steakhutzeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 17:26   #48945  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't ....
Try again with MADVR playing at the correct rate.

I find its best to play movies in there default rate, your skips will likely be caused by MADVR changing up from 23,976 hz to 60 hz.

do you have 1080p23 or 2160p23 set as a display mode in MADVR? do you have refresh rate switching turned on in MADVR?
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 17:37   #48946  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't know how to check gpu load. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c95a9cb643.jpg
What's happening is your PAL DVD is being deinterlaced as video to 50 fps ('frame = 20 ms') and your rendering times are higher than the resulting frame time so you get dropped frames.
If this is indeed a video source then you need to lower your scaling settings.
If this is a film, enable IVTC or manually disable deinterlacing by pressing the shortcut (that's what I do), then it will play at 25 fps/40 ms per frame.
__________________
HTPC: E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti, DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60 | Desktop: 4690K, Radeon 7870, Dell U2713HM | Windows 1709, MediaPortal/MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR | Laptop: i5-2520M, Windows Insider
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 18:54   #48947  |  Link
steakhutzeee
Registered User
 
steakhutzeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Try again with MADVR playing at the correct rate.

I find its best to play movies in there default rate, your skips will likely be caused by MADVR changing up from 23,976 hz to 60 hz.

do you have 1080p23 or 2160p23 set as a display mode in MADVR? do you have refresh rate switching turned on in MADVR?
I never touched the screen rate options in madvr, screenshots in spoiler, don't know how to do the changes you suggest. And why you talk about 23.976 if movie is 25.000?

Can you help me?

I'm on a FullHD monitor setted on 60hz.

[SPOILER]

[/SPOILER]
__________________
Intel i5-4590 - MSI R9 270X 2GB - 8GB RAM

Last edited by steakhutzeee; 10th February 2018 at 19:22.
steakhutzeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 18:56   #48948  |  Link
steakhutzeee
Registered User
 
steakhutzeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
What's happening is your PAL DVD is being deinterlaced as video to 50 fps ('frame = 20 ms') and your rendering times are higher than the resulting frame time so you get dropped frames.
If this is indeed a video source then you need to lower your scaling settings.
If this is a film, enable IVTC or manually disable deinterlacing by pressing the shortcut (that's what I do), then it will play at 25 fps/40 ms per frame.
What is IVTC? So I have to simply disable deinterlacing when running a DVD movie disc?

What's difference between video source and film?

I added screenshots in post just before this.
__________________
Intel i5-4590 - MSI R9 270X 2GB - 8GB RAM

Last edited by steakhutzeee; 10th February 2018 at 19:20.
steakhutzeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 19:50   #48949  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
What is IVTC?
IVTC is InVerse TeleCine. It analyses frames to try and reconstruct the original cadence before the conversion to TV/DVD. It can, among other cases, for example reconstruct 24p film converted into 60i back into 24p (so called 3:2 cadence), or 25p converted into 50i back to 25p (so called 2:2 cadence). Your PAL DVD is the second case. However, IVTC uses some processing power, and madVR runs it on the CPU, so if you can avoid it then you gain a few ms.
Quote:
So I have to simply disable deinterlacing when running a DVD movie disc?
If the only material you watch on DVD is movies and the DVDs are PAL, then yes. It's easy because when a cinema movie is put on a PAL DVD, it's simply accelerated 4% to 25 fps, then each frame is plit in two fields to give 50i. If you just disable deinterlacing, the fields (half-frames) are just combined back together into 25p.
Note that some TV series are also shot on film, and some parts of cinema movies on disc can be video, like some end credits, so you need to test with each film (or enable IVTC and accept the few ms of additional processing).
Quote:
What's difference between video source and film?
Video is natively captured in 50i (or in 50p and then converted to 50i for TV/DVD/HD Blu-ray), so if you disable deinterlacing with true video, you'll end up with stuff like that: https://larryjordan.com/assets/nxltr69/interlace-01.jpg
Check madVR's keyboard shortcuts configuration, there are shortcuts for toggling deinterlacing between auto/off/on, and for forcing film/video. Test and see what each does to playback.
__________________
HTPC: E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti, DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60 | Desktop: 4690K, Radeon 7870, Dell U2713HM | Windows 1709, MediaPortal/MPC-HC, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR | Laptop: i5-2520M, Windows Insider

Last edited by el Filou; 10th February 2018 at 20:12.
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 20:04   #48950  |  Link
stefanelli73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
yeah sure.

Firsty if you press control J what do the first two lines say, it should say something like:

display 23,97598hz
composition rate 23,976
Yes, both the display and the composition rate can be found, sometimes having a high rendering while having low settings in madvr
stefanelli73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2018, 20:42   #48951  |  Link
steakhutzeee
Registered User
 
steakhutzeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
IVTC is InVerse TeleCine. It analyses frames to try and reconstruct the original cadence before the conversion to TV/DVD. It can, among other cases, for example reconstruct 24p film converted into 60i back into 24p (so called 3:2 cadence), or 25p converted into 50i back to 25p (so called 2:2 cadence). Your PAL DVD is the second case. However, IVTC uses some processing power, and madVR runs it on the CPU, so if you can avoid it then you gain a few ms.If the only material you watch on DVD is movies and the DVDs are PAL, then yes. It's easy because when a cinema movie is put on a PAL DVD, it's simply accelerated 4% to 25 fps, then each frame is plit in two fields to give 50i. If you just disable deinterlacing, the fields (half-frames) are just combined back together into 25p.
Note that some TV series are also shot on film, and some parts of cinema movies on disc can be video, like some end credits, so you need to test with each film (or enable IVTC and accept the few ms of additional processing).Video is natively captured in 50i (or in 50p and then converted to 50i for TV/DVD/HD Blu-ray), so if you disable deinterlacing with true video, you'll end up with stuff like that: https://larryjordan.com/assets/nxltr69/interlace-01.jpg
Check madVR's keyboard shortcuts configuration, there are shortcuts for toggling deinterlacing between auto/off/on, and for forcing film/video. Test and see what each does to playback.
Thank you very much for the complete explanation!

So,

Disabling deinterlacing works, and no dropped frames with video mode.

With deinterlacing on 'if in doubt deactivate' (as i always have) , and forced to movie mode, no fps drop. (possible?)


So I simply setted madvr to force movie mode and now I have not to press anything, (not touched deinterlacing setting).

I can use these settings for movies I've on my PC so not on dvd discs?

I tried and switching between source type (on a movie on my PC) I see 1.movie with deinterlacing off 2. Movie 3.video

What's the difference between 1 and 2?

>>So I assume I can safely completely disable deinterlacing because I never see true video but only movies? Deactivating 'automatically activate deinterlacing when needed'? Or it's useless because I m forcing movie mode?


>>Forcing movie mode automatically enable IVTC? So I have to install anything and I can leave the deinterlacing option active on 'if in doubt, deactivate'?

-------------


Btw, I still continue to can't navigate through the movie selecting a point in the seek bar. Why this? (only on DVD discs).

What's the use of the settings in the first two screeshots i posted in spoiler previously? Those settings refer to this problem too?

Thanks again and again!
__________________
Intel i5-4590 - MSI R9 270X 2GB - 8GB RAM

Last edited by steakhutzeee; 10th February 2018 at 21:27.
steakhutzeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 14:55   #48952  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 393
Afternoon all. I have Madvr set up to render all my content via Kodi DSPlayer and everything is working perfectly except for a couple of movies out of over 1000 that are dropping frames like nobody's business.

I have a 4K display and a GTX 1060 and my upscaling is set to NGU sharp (high) which seems perfect for 99% of my content resulting in 0 frames dropped, however with these problematic movies I'm forced to drop NGU sharp down to low if I want to avoid dropped frames.

The movies in question don't appear to be anything special; 1080p, not particularly high bitrates, certainly no more demanding than some of the material I throw at my setup, however they are completely unwatchable.

Can anyone suggest the best way to troubleshoot this?
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 15:08   #48953  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,556
the frame rate of the movies would be interesting. maybe deinterlancing?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 15:27   #48954  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,836
Post an osd cap with one of the titles that's giving you trouble so we can take a look.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
__________________
HTPC1:W10 Creator Edition, I7 3770k, GTX 1060, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Panasonic 65" 1080p Plasma
Laptop: MSI GT70 Dominator
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 16:22   #48955  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the frame rate of the movies would be interesting. maybe deinterlancing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Post an osd cap with one of the titles that's giving you trouble so we can take a look.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Thanks guys,

The framerate of the movie is 23.976

Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 16:27   #48956  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,556
because you changed the scaling rules to 4x always.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 16:36   #48957  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
because you changed the scaling rules to 4x always.
Oh right, I think I understand. So is this just an issue for frame sizes that aren't clear divisions of the display size?

EDIT: scratch that, I'm really not sure I do understand this at all.

Is there a good resource for getting my head around scaling in MadVR? I thought I had my head around it but these couple of films seem to behave differently to everything else

Last edited by Clown shoes; 11th February 2018 at 16:58. Reason: Confused.com
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 17:43   #48958  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,836
Yea, your rendering times are off the chart as huhn said likely because of the scaling. That's an odd source resolution.
__________________
HTPC1:W10 Creator Edition, I7 3770k, GTX 1060, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Panasonic 65" 1080p Plasma
Laptop: MSI GT70 Dominator
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 17:54   #48959  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown shoes View Post
Oh right, I think I understand. So is this just an issue for frame sizes that aren't clear divisions of the display size?

EDIT: scratch that, I'm really not sure I do understand this at all.

Is there a good resource for getting my head around scaling in MadVR? I thought I had my head around it but these couple of films seem to behave differently to everything else
you changed this option to always.
https://abload.de/img/herewegoagaintzuuk.png

for reasons beyond me.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2018, 18:05   #48960  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Yea, your rendering times are off the chart as huhn said likely because of the scaling. That's an odd source resolution.
The thing is my scaling settings aren't set up for anything crazy bearing in mind I have a GTX1060.
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.