Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 31st March 2018, 00:17   #49961  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Statick View Post
is there a way to enable upscaling refinements only when a certain level of upscaling has taken place? I like to have various enhancements enabled when upscaling SD DVD content to 1080, but when I watch stuff which is already in HD I get dropped frames unless I disable them, and I don't really need the enhancements enabled then anyway

I'm running MadVR on a HTPC so I don't really want to be fiddling with settings every time I watch something, ideally I want one setting that works all the time (which currently means I have to keep some of the enhancements disabled)

also, is there a way to choose a basic upscaling algorithm other than Jinc when a doubling algorithm is selected? I have xbr selected for doubling, with Lanczos3 for "if any (more) scaling is required", but when I watch 4:3 1080 content with black bars zoomed 50%, it scales the image using Jinc AR regardless
You need to create profile rules for different content. madVR was designed this way. The first page has an explanation on how to create these rules. I suggest using resolution for the rules covering the scaling category in the madVR control panel.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 00:21   #49962  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
I have lg e6 so native is 60hz. That's why im trying to figure it out how to get it sorted so i can play movies at original refresh mode how u guys recommend, just dont know where to look for solution in my settings.

When i was using smooth motion with 59hz they i had really stuttering playback, that's why now is off.
I looked up your display previously and it supports 24p playback. If using ReClock, you must output the audio as PCM streams. That is the trade off. Using custom modes is necessary when bitstreaming. Or you could watch some content and see if you actually notice the frame drops/repeats.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 01:11   #49963  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I looked up your display previously and it supports 24p playback. If using ReClock, you must output the audio as PCM streams. That is the trade off. Using custom modes is necessary when bitstreaming. Or you could watch some content and see if you actually notice the frame drops/repeats.

Hmmm

So shall i accept bitstream or no in reclock ? when i untick it my AVR shows MUTICH when i tick accept bitstream then im getting right audio mode like dts hd etc.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 01:38   #49964  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
Hmmm

So shall i accept bitstream or no in reclock ? when i untick it my AVR shows MUTICH when i tick accept bitstream then im getting right audio mode like dts hd etc.
Media speed correction only works with PCM output. You lose Dolby Atmos and DTS:X if you need these. I would come to grips with custom modes. The tutorial posted earlier was written by the developer madshi.

Edit: I should say bitstreaming technically works with ReClock, but it drops/dupes packets of data to keep time. When I’ve tried this, madVR judders. It can also lead to audio dropouts.

Last edited by Warner306; 31st March 2018 at 01:41.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 02:08   #49965  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Media speed correction only works with PCM output. You lose Dolby Atmos and DTS:X if you need these. I would come to grips with custom modes. The tutorial posted earlier was written by the developer madshi.

Edit: I should say bitstreaming technically works with ReClock, but it drops/dupes packets of data to keep time. When I’ve tried this, madVR judders. It can also lead to audio dropouts.
For now i will try this guide https://sunmaiblog.wordpress.com/201...ming-hd-audio/ and stick to bitstream with wasapi exclusive and see how it goes, it showed me 2 dropped 1 repeated in reclock but didnt had any dropped frames in madvr, but i just watched few minutes on windowed mode in mpc-hc, will watch something as it should and see then.

If wasapi exclusive wont help or i will still have dropped frames, i will try stricte PCM mode and re watch same movie and compare dropped frames to bitstream mode.

When u mentioned the audio dropouts, sometimes i have clicks in avr, like sound mode change or so but its not, so maybe it's the bitstream case then.

The custom modes in madvr i would love to try this but it's hard for me to get my head around it even with this tutorial, main thing is i watched movie for over 10min and didnt get any timing details, so i dont know if i need to add again my 23hz mode or what, to make madvr measure my video playback

In custom modes the : delete and optimize is greyed out i can only do edit and reset gpu. So if someone would be so kind and help me out a lil bit more how to get this started, i would try to sort my issue trough custom display modes and then see if messing with custom mode and bitstream can work together without any issues

Last edited by maxkolonko123; 31st March 2018 at 02:20.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 07:01   #49966  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
In custom modes the : delete and optimize is greyed out i can only do edit and reset gpu. So if someone would be so kind and help me out a lil bit more how to get this started, i would try to sort my issue trough custom display modes and then see if messing with custom mode and bitstream can work together without any issues
Click on the refresh rate you want to customize (make sure it is not the active mode) and click edit. Choose "CVT Reduced Blanking v2" as a good starting point. Click Test Mode, and then click Yes when it asks if you want to save these custom timings. The status has to say "custom timings", not "standard mode", for madVR to measure and optimize a refresh rate.

Then watch something for at least 10 minutes, the longer the better. Do not seek, pause, look at menus, etc. while watching; ideally simply start a movie playing and then don't touch anything for the entire movie. After it is over go back into custom modes and click optimize.

Do not use Reclock while doing this.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 11:04   #49967  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Click on the refresh rate you want to customize (make sure it is not the active mode) and click edit. Choose "CVT Reduced Blanking v2" as a good starting point. Click Test Mode, and then click Yes when it asks if you want to save these custom timings. The status has to say "custom timings", not "standard mode", for madVR to measure and optimize a refresh rate.

Then watch something for at least 10 minutes, the longer the better. Do not seek, pause, look at menus, etc. while watching; ideally simply start a movie playing and then don't touch anything for the entire movie. After it is over go back into custom modes and click optimize.

Do not use Reclock while doing this.

Ok so CVT v1 and v2 doesnt work, screen go blank then comes after while and there is no option to click yes etc.

CVT CRT after test mode showed me option to save settings, and now it says custom timing,optimization data avaible, so when did madvr measure data ? cause i didnt watch movie after doing test mode CVT CRT, either i cant apply any of the avaible timing paramters when in the customize , its shows only Test Mode and Cancel


Started everything from scratch got to the point custom settings not mesured yet -> watched movie for about 20min -> optimization data available and plenty to chose from but there is no Apply button only Test mode :/

Last edited by maxkolonko123; 31st March 2018 at 12:26.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 12:05   #49968  |  Link
Razoola
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 454
Reclock works fine with bitstreaming for me, I have always used it that way. You must of course be using custom refresh rates or youll get dropped/repeated audio packets. I never saw a situation where a dropped audio packet caused a video judder, only issue you can get is audio pops and crackles if your refessh rate is not close enough.
Razoola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 12:28   #49969  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
Reclock works fine with bitstreaming for me, I have always used it that way. You must of course be using custom refresh rates or youll get dropped/repeated audio packets. I never saw a situation where a dropped audio packet caused a video judder, only issue you can get is audio pops and crackles if your refessh rate is not close enough.
The main thing what i've notice sometimes when bitstream in reclock i've got clicks on avr every now and then, same click sound when changing audio mode/source but it never affected movie, but yeah clicks are consistent.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 17:56   #49970  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
The main thing what i've notice sometimes when bitstream in reclock i've got clicks on avr every now and then, same click sound when changing audio mode/source but it never affected movie, but yeah clicks are consistent.
The correct way to use ReClock is to output in PCM. This is because ReClock can resample the audio (it actually upsamples the audio like Dolby TrueHD 96K Upsampling) and then slows it down or speeds it up to keep time. The change in pitch is so minor as to be imperceptible. So this option should still be considered lossless or close to lossless.

ReClock can't touch a bitstream source because it needs to be unpacked into separate PCM channels first. So it uses another approach when bitstreaming that is not failsafe or lossless, to say the least.

Given the trouble you are having with custom modes, I would try using ReClock with PCM output. As stated previously, you lose Dolby Atmos and DTS:X if you need these. You can bitstream with ReClock, but it is not the recommended way to use this software. It even warns you about this in its configuration panel.

Or, you could just live with these dropped frames. I did for years and rarely, if ever, noticed them. It is one frame we are talking about, not several at a time. It all depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.

Last edited by Warner306; 31st March 2018 at 18:20.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 18:34   #49971  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
The correct way to use ReClock is to output in PCM. This is because ReClock can resample the audio (it actually upsamples the audio like Dolby TrueHD 96K Upsampling) and then slows it down or speeds it up to keep time. The change in pitch is so minor as to be imperceptible. So this option should still be considered lossless or close to lossless.

ReClock can't touch a bitstream source because it needs to be unpacked into separate PCM channels first. So it uses another approach when bitstreaming that is not failsafe or lossless, to say the least.

Given the trouble you are having with custom modes, I would try using ReClock with PCM output. As stated previously, you lose Dolby Atmos and DTS:X if you need these. You can bitstream with ReClock, but it is not the recommended way to use this software. It even warns you about this in its configuration panel.

Or, you could just live with these dropped frames. I did for years and rarely, if ever, noticed them. It is one frame we are talking about, not several at a time. It all depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.
You got me here with this perfectionist main thing is i cant stop thinking about those dropped frames.

Like i said above i did get to the point in custom modes that madvr did optimize timings parameters but in tutorial i can see Apply option in my situtation there is Test mode option insted apply and i dont know why is like this ?


Ok i think i got it sorted manage to choose optimized pixel clock with no frames dropped/repeated expected with 95% compatibility. Reclock switched off for now.

Now my question is shall i bitstream trough LAV audio or shall i send PCM or in this situation doesnt matter ?

Update on my case :

Just finished movie with those technical details :

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2 h 20 min
Bit rate : 9 597 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 808 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive


By the end of the movie i've got 175 dropped frames and 34 repeated frames ! funny thing is neither me or my missus noticed juddering, stuttering etc Madvr was played with custom timings without reclock in use

Last edited by maxkolonko123; 31st March 2018 at 22:42.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2018, 23:44   #49972  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,351
I spent all afternoon on that very problem for 1080p. With my panasonic plasma I was not able to come even remotely close to eliminating dropped/repeated frames and I do notice them. So, I've finally given up on bitstreaming and use JRiver's video clocking ability for smooth playback. The reality is that the receiver is going to decode the audio anyway so you're really not losing anything so long as you have a proper audio decoder for the formats you use. I'm not doing Atmos or DTS:X yet so for me this is fine for now. When I move to a UHD screen with new receiver I'll revisit this whole mess. If you notice the dropped frames and you aren't able to fix it with a custom res, then try PCM and see what happens.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 00:22   #49973  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Try another custom mode. This time one in yellow or green for compatibility, even if it isn’t perfect. I had to settle for one frame repeat every 19 minutes.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 00:24   #49974  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I spent all afternoon on that very problem for 1080p. With my panasonic plasma I was not able to come even remotely close to eliminating dropped/repeated frames and I do notice them. So, I've finally given up on bitstreaming and use JRiver's video clocking ability for smooth playback. The reality is that the receiver is going to decode the audio anyway so you're really not losing anything so long as you have a proper audio decoder for the formats you use. I'm not doing Atmos or DTS:X yet so for me this is fine for now. When I move to a UHD screen with new receiver I'll revisit this whole mess. If you notice the dropped frames and you aren't able to fix it with a custom res, then try PCM and see what happens.
I did bitstream but without using reclock, just direct audio device and lav filters, nothing else.

I will watch some movie tomorrow without bitstream just PCM but i gave a tried alrdy for few minutes and still had some occasional drops.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 00:26   #49975  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Try another custom mode. This time one in yellow or green for compatibility, even if it isn’t perfect. I had to settle for one frame repeat every 19 minutes.
Ok will do

Can i use reclock with it or not ?
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 00:37   #49976  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
Good job Max. You got it. Personally I wouldn't pay attention to the stats. Most of what you see could have been from the initial start or a rewind or fast forward as well. If both of you didn't see anything, then you didn't see anything. Now you can ditch Reclock and gain back your audio bitstream. Maybe check a couple other titles so you are happy.

P.S. Try Wasapi, not Direct.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 00:54   #49977  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Good job Max. You got it. Personally I wouldn't pay attention to the stats. Most of what you see could have been from the initial start or a rewind or fast forward as well. If both of you didn't see anything, then you didn't see anything. Now you can ditch Reclock and gain back your audio bitstream. Maybe check a couple other titles so you are happy.

P.S. Try Wasapi, not Direct.

I always clear osd in madvr after going into fullscreen etc so i start from 0 dropped frames.

Do you mean to use Wasapi in Reclock or how ? or there is wasapi in mpc-hc?

Do you mean in mpc-hc : options -> playback -> output -> audio renderer : Direct Sound -> internal filters -> Audio renderer -> Device : Direct Sound Exclusive mode : check Allow bitstream : check ??

Last edited by maxkolonko123; 1st April 2018 at 01:03.
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 09:59   #49978  |  Link
tyrindor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 47
I think I figured out my problem where MPC-BE resizes all my windows after playback. My receiver has 2 identications, one for 4K and one for 480p. It is set to the 480p one by default, and won't let me delete it because it's "active". The 4K one is inactive and can be deleted... It seems my receiver was once correctly detected as 4K, but now detects as 480p. This is confirmed in NVIDIA drivers as it claims my native resolution is 720x480. I still can select 3840x2160 @ 60hz... but my windows constantly resizes to 480p sizes after MadVR playback. Screenshot of two entries: https://i.imgur.com/tRrdYSp.png

Receiver in question is a Denon X7200WA.

Any idea how to fix this? Seems like a HDMI handshaking issue, but I've already tried power cycling all the devices.

Last edited by tyrindor; 1st April 2018 at 10:49.
tyrindor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 11:01   #49979  |  Link
maxkolonko123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
I think I figured out my problem where MPC-BE resizes all my windows after playback. My receiver has 2 identications, one for 4K and one for 480p. It is set to the 480p one by default, and won't let me delete it because it's "active". The 4K one is inactive and can be deleted... It seems my receiver was once correctly detected as 4K, but now detects as 480p. This is confirmed in NVIDIA drivers as it claims my native resolution is 720x480. I still can select 3840x2160 @ 60hz... but my windows constantly resizes to 480p sizes after MadVR playback. Screenshot of two entries: https://i.imgur.com/tRrdYSp.png

Receiver in question is a Denon X7200WA.

Any idea how to fix this? Seems like a HDMI handshaking issue, but I've already tried power cycling all the devices.
I would assume you need find it in registry or edit EDID in windows
maxkolonko123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2018, 11:09   #49980  |  Link
tyrindor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
I would assume you need find it in registry or edit EDID in windows
I figured out a way to force it to 3840x2160 using CRU, however Windows still resizes to 480p size after HDR playback.

Sigh, gonna have to just live with it and hope HDMI 2.1 isn't so damn fragile when it comes to handshaking.
tyrindor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.