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Old 24th March 2011, 11:37   #1  |  Link
pascalwil
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LPCM 5.1 to DTS conversion

LPCM 5.1 is from Bluray
Have used Eac3to to get 6 mono WAVs from Bluray LPCM 5.1 (listed as RAW/WAV I believe)
And then SurCode to make DTS from WAVs

Have tried 16 & 24 bits WAVs to feed SurCode
Have tried 1536. Should I use 768?
Have tried Remap Blu-Ray channels to 6 Channels (- bluray flag)
Have tried Slightly Different Header for WAVs (but Eac3to 3.22 says this flag is no longer supported & needed)

Have remuxed DTS audio with h264 video from Bluray using tsMuxeR

TS file OK on PC. Plays fine with KMPlayer
MediaInfo report OK

BUT no sound when TS played from MPEG4 player box with DTS delivered to Sony 5.1 (with DTS support) system trough S/PDIF
DTS not recognized by Sony system.

After looking around searching for posts about this issue I've come to you for your help.
If you have any idea about what I'm doing wrong. Or any tip.

Thanks for your help.

PS: Bluray hasn't got DTS track (despite the spec). Only AC3 5.1 in addition to LPCM 5.1. The reason why I want to perform the conversion.
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Old 24th March 2011, 12:00   #2  |  Link
space1999
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Just a wild guess: you told Surcode to encode as ".dts", and not as ".cpt".

".dts" == ".cpt" ++ zero-padding, without a .WAV header.

Not all applications/firmware deal with all possible flavors of the DCA compression...

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Originally Posted by pascalwil View Post
MediaInfo report OK
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Old 24th March 2011, 12:24   #3  |  Link
pascalwil
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I knew I had forgotten something!

Have tried DTS with zero padding (dts), DTS compact (cpt renamed to dts) and DTS wav
Only DTS compact OK with tsMuxer (1.10.6). DTS padded not supported and DTS wav seen as stereo.

Have used only CPT. Is that the issue?

Cheers
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Old 24th March 2011, 13:42   #4  |  Link
space1999
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.cpt type is OK, as it should be.

It's up to the hardware player to pad the DCA stream with zeroes and send it to the receiver.

Maybe your hardware player actually does not detect/support DTS ???
Cheaper/older devices usually support only AC-3 and uncompressed stereo.

Quote:
DTS not recognized by Sony system.
Does your Sony at least detect an audio stream ???

Last edited by space1999; 24th March 2011 at 13:45.
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Old 24th March 2011, 15:31   #5  |  Link
pascalwil
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Player DOES support DTS for sure. Have played many other movies/concerts with DTS audio.

About detecting audio stream. Not sure but I can tell DTS not detected since DTS is displayed on the front panel when it is.

Eac3to Log

eac3to v3.22
command line: "D:\Documents and Settings\pwt\Portable Progs\eac3to322\eac3to.exe" "J:\Music Video (Archives)\Blu-ray\BDMV\STREAM\00002.m2ts" 5: "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.wavs" -blu-ray -log="I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\Eac3to - LPCM to WAVs.txt"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2TS, 1 video track, 4 audio tracks, 1:44:58, 60i /1.001
1: Chapters, 17 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080i60 /1.001 (16:9)
3: RAW/PCM, English, 2.0 channels, 24 bits, 48kHz
4: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48kHz
5: RAW/PCM, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48kHz
6: AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48kHz
[a05] Extracting audio track number 5...
[a05] Reading RAW/PCM...
[a05] Swapping endian...
[a05] Remapping channels...
[a05] Writing WAVs...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.L.wav"...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.C.wav"...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.R.wav"...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.LFE.wav"...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.SR.wav"...
[a05] Creating file "I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\Eac3to\K-TKPLH.SL.wav"...
[a05] The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
Video track 2 contains 377530 fields.
eac3to processing took 21 minutes, 16 seconds.
Done.

SurCode Log

DTS DVD:

Core Bit Rate = 1536000 bps
Frame Size = 512 samples
Pad zeros at end of frame= No
Channel Layout = 3/2/.1
Sampling Frequency = 48000 Hz
Bits Per Input Sample = 24
QMF Filter = Nonperfect reconstruction
Rear channel attenuation = 0 dB
HDCD = No
ES = No
Compressed audio file = I:\Music Video (Temporary files)\SurCode\1.0.23\K - TKPLH - DTS (CPT).cpt

MediaInfo for DTS file

General
Complete name : K - TKPLH - DTS (CPT).cpt.dts
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
File size : 1.11 GiB
Duration : 1h 44mn
Overall bit rate : 1 510 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Duration : 1h 44mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.11 GiB (100%)

Could Frame Size of DTS be an issue?

Thanks for your help
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Old 24th March 2011, 15:50   #6  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pascalwil View Post
...
BUT no sound when TS played from MPEG4 player box with DTS delivered to Sony 5.1 (with DTS support) system trough S/PDIF DTS not recognized by Sony system.
...
All seems Ok. What is your MPEG4 player box?
Try with other container (m2ts, mkv).
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Old 24th March 2011, 16:54   #7  |  Link
pascalwil
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High Definition DVB-T Tuner/Recorder

Video format support: MPEG 2 MP@ML .ps, H.264MP@L4 .ts, .avi, .mp4, .mkv, .vob
Audio format support: mp3, wma; DD, DD+; HE-AAC;Dolby Digital AC-3/5.1

1 HDMI output and 1 optical SPDIF digital audio output

Through S/PDIF it can send DTS to Sony 5.1 system. Tested and working as said before with many movies/concerts

Will try MKV and M2TS (although not listed). Thanks for the idea.

Cheers
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Old 25th March 2011, 15:12   #8  |  Link
pascalwil
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Have tried M2TS without success but good new is it's supported by player. Video plays fine but still no sound.

MediaInfo reports

General
ID : 1
Complete name : K-TKPLH - DTS (CPT) - 24.split.1.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 951 MiB
Duration : 5mn 28s
Overall bit rate : 24.3 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 5mn 28s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 21.8 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 35.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.350
Stream size : 854 MiB (90%)
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Duration : 5mn 28s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 59.2 MiB (6%)
Language : English

For MKV problem is my player doesn't support such high video bitrate (> 20Mbps)
Is there a way to lower video bitrate?
Also is it worth trying DTS with padding instead of compact?

Cheers
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Old 25th March 2011, 19:45   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pascalwil View Post
...
Also is it worth trying DTS with padding instead of compact?
I don't think so.

Maybe convert LPCM to AC3 640 Kb/s, more compatible and same quality than DTS 1536 Kb/s
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Old 25th March 2011, 19:54   #10  |  Link
pascalwil
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Thanks a lot tebasuna51 for all your good advices!

Though about AC3 640 but didn't think it would challenge DTS 1536. How come is it same quality? Can you point me to some literature so I can learn something in the process.

Thanks again for your help. Very much appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 25th March 2011, 20:09   #11  |  Link
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Because the AC3 encoder is more efficient than DTS, like video encoders MPEG4 and MPEG2 encoders, and obtain the same quality with less bitrate.
The AAC encoder is more efficient than AC3/DTS but can't be send by SPDIF to receiver.

I only know this literature about multichannel codecs: http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3324.pdf
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Old 25th March 2011, 21:07   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pascalwil View Post
Though about AC3 640 but didn't think it would challenge DTS 1536. How come is it same quality? Can you point me to some literature so I can learn something in the process.
An interesting opinion (N.B., "Page updated on April 3, 2004"):

Dolby Digital, DTS and DVD: A History
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Old 25th March 2011, 22:57   #13  |  Link
pascalwil
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Thanks a lot guys.

Looks like I've got some stuff to read. Looks quite interesting.

Cheers
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Old 27th March 2011, 14:58   #14  |  Link
pascalwil
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I though I'd let you know how things are going for me.

tebasuna51 you said all seemed OK. And you were right. It was OK
But I was using mkvmerge 4.6.0 to make MKV file. For some reason the MKV from 4.6.0 is not supported by my player.
Works perfectly when using mkvmerge 4.0.0. I get DTS and just for info works with DTS ZP & DTS CPT & DTS WAV.

Again thanks a lot to all of you for your time.

Cheers
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Old 27th March 2011, 15:12   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pascalwil View Post
For some reason the MKV from 4.6.0 is not supported by my player.
Have you tried turning off header compression for all tracks? Can't remember when that was introduced but it might well be the problem. You can disable it in mmg's options (it's on by default otherwise).
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Old 27th March 2011, 16:08   #16  |  Link
pascalwil
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Thanks for the tip TinTime.

I've checked this option wasn't in 4.0.0. Is in 4.4.0 and 4.6.0.
Looks like this is the problem. Well spotted. Have turned it off as you suggested.

Cheers
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