Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 14th August 2013, 20:15   #19861  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
My 2007 LG 720p (1024x768 rectangular pixels) still ouputs 4:2:2 even with PIP active (OTA HDTV channel in the PIP)... so not sure what your Sammy is doing
Well, from what I've read 4:2:0 is really supposed to be a jaggy feast....I still kinda think that HDMI and SD TV run in 4:2:2 and HD in 4:4:4, reason why forcing SD PIP remains 4:2:2 and HD PIP goes 4:4:4. That's what the original test pattern showed anyway

But I didn't run any harcore A/B comparisons and being colorblind, I'm hopeless without a colorimeter.

Maybe more people can testproof this pattern and once a consensus will have been found, madshi can add it to the first page
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2013, 20:27   #19862  |  Link
6233638
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Well, from what I've read 4:2:0 is really supposed to be a jaggy feast....I still kinda think that HDMI and SD TV run in 4:2:2 and HD in 4:4:4, reason why forcing SD PIP remains 4:2:2 and HD PIP goes 4:4:4. That's what the original test pattern showed anyway
You can only use these patterns when displayed using 1:1 mapping. If your display is scaling from SD, the results are invalid.

I would expect chroma resolution to drop (if anything) when you enable PIP rather than improving.

4:2:0 will only appear very aliased when it's displayed natively.
Most of these displays will only be processing in 4:2:0 (discarding chroma resolution) and then upsampling it - the issue is that most displays do a poor job of the upsampling, and some sources (e.g. computer graphics/games) are 4:4:4 native.
For example: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1162100/th...#post_20822997

Processing in 4:2:0 results in very soft, blurred chroma, not aliased chroma.
6233638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2013, 23:02   #19863  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,461
Well, I was hoping for a firmware bug considering that your previous test pattern appeared fine

Apparently 4:2:0 is really fubar: http://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/pr...deo-codec.html

I can see how 4:4:4 might be considered overkill for displaying 4:2:0 YV12 sources and why some(many?) TV sets save money by processing in 4:2:2: http://www.5dfilmmaking.com/tut_444.htm

PS: OK, case closed: whatever I do in "movie" mode, red blue and magenta never look as sharp as the others.

Actually, the darn thing can go 4:4:4(even with PIP enabled) if I rename the input to "PC" but then no more BFI & REC.709 gamut..

Last edited by leeperry; 16th August 2013 at 15:20.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2013, 05:29   #19864  |  Link
psousa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 21
maybe you guys already know this, but i find avsforum 4:4:4 topic great.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread
psousa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2013, 22:55   #19865  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 567
I believe I am seeing jerky motion while watching a telecine'd TV recording from Showtime with LAV + madVR IVTC + madVR smooth motion (30i IVTC → 24p → 60Hz smooth motion).

Does anyone happen to know a good IVTC motion test file so that I can try to reproduce that more reliably and try to find out if my file is bad, or the timestamps from LAV are bad, or madVR IVTC is bad?

Last edited by e-t172; 16th August 2013 at 21:13.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2013, 15:02   #19866  |  Link
Pat357
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
I believe I am seeing jerky motion while watching a IVTC'd TV recording from Showtime with LAV + madVR IVTC + madVR smooth motion (30i IVTC → 24p → 60Hz smooth motion).

Does anyone happen to know a good IVTC motion test file so that I can try to reproduce that more reliably and try to find out if my file is bad, or the timestamps from LAV are bad, or madVR IVTC is bad?
First important question : does MavdVR detect & show the 3:2 cadence on OSD without too much "cadence breaks" ?

Second : did you disable the build in "Telecine processing" from the GPU ? If it's enabled, it can interfere with the MadVR IVTC.

Third : is maybe a typo from you, but I'm not sure : are you sure your TV recording is already IVTC'd ? Then you can't really IVTC it again : obviously only Telecine sources can be IVTC'd !

Fourth : is your TV source soft Telecine'd or hard Telecine'd or maybe even mixed soft/hard Telecine'd ?

Last edited by Pat357; 16th August 2013 at 15:50.
Pat357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2013, 21:15   #19867  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
First important question : does MavdVR detect & show the 3:2 cadence on OSD without too much "cadence breaks" ?
The cadence is properly detected, and there are zero cadence breaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
Second : did you disable the build in "Telecine processing" from the GPU ? If it's enabled, it can interfere with the MadVR IVTC.
Irrelevant. I'm not using any GPU video processing (no DXVA, no CUVID, and madVR is doing the rendering).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
Third : is maybe a typo from you, but I'm not sure : are you sure your TV recording is already IVTC'd ? Then you can't really IVTC it again : obviously only Telecine sources can be IVTC'd !
Ah, yes, sorry for the confusion. Of course I meant the original file is telecined, and I am trying to IVTC it using madVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
Fourth : is your TV source soft Telecine'd or hard Telecine'd or maybe even mixed soft/hard Telecine'd ?
No idea. Probably a mix since it's a TV broadcast (I'm not sure how clean the Showtime broadcast is), but AFAIK madVR is supposed to be able to handle all kinds of crazy soft/hard telecine mixes.

Last edited by e-t172; 16th August 2013 at 21:18.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2013, 21:46   #19868  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
madVR requires film mode to be manually selected prior to video playback in order to properly apply smooth motion with the current release. I think madshi will update this later to work on-the-fly with keyboard shortcuts as expected.
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th August 2013, 23:29   #19869  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 567
Not sure what you mean. Currently I have "disable automatic source type detection" checked, "force film mode" checked, and "enable smooth motion only if there would be motion judder without it" checked. When I play the video, the OSD says "film mode, cadence 3:2" and "smooth motion on". What do you think I should do exactly?

Note that bug 113 doesn't seem to apply to me, since smooth motion is enabled according to the OSD. It just doesn't seem to work well.

Last edited by e-t172; 16th August 2013 at 23:33.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2013, 03:19   #19870  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
Not sure what you mean. Currently I have "disable automatic source type detection" checked, "force film mode" checked, and "enable smooth motion only if there would be motion judder without it" checked. When I play the video, the OSD says "film mode, cadence 3:2" and "smooth motion on". What do you think I should do exactly?

Note that bug 113 doesn't seem to apply to me, since smooth motion is enabled according to the OSD. It just doesn't seem to work well.
Well, if you've already done that then I'm out of ideas. :/ Are you using Reclock, by any chance? Sometimes it doesn't pick up the correct refresh rate for IVTC'd material depending on the source content.
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2013, 11:01   #19871  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 567
I'm not using ReClock.

What I'm really looking for is some hard/soft telecine 1080i30 motion test files so that I can try to reproduce this thing in isolation.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2013, 14:26   #19872  |  Link
Luv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 63
How is it that nobody ever speaks about the Intel decoders? The MPEG2 one is now my default and I just tried the H.264,and it works like a charm (x.264,1080i,blu-ray)?

Errr,Madshi:

Intel Media SDK 2013 R2
http://software.intel.com/fr-fr/forums/topic/356800
Luv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th August 2013, 18:01   #19873  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
Is there a way to make txt subtitles respect the video/3D LUT? Or is this a limitation of MPC-HC's subtitle renderer?
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th August 2013, 07:25   #19874  |  Link
tschi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 71
hi,
I have a A/V receiver (denon 4311) with two HDMI outputs (TV, Videoprojector) linked to ATI 5770 graphics cards (hdmi ->hdmi) .
madVR can not detect which device is used (I guess it's a normal situation). is there a way to switch between several devices (I don't see any shortcut). I can create a new device in preferences but I can not tell to madVR to use it. I would like to use different PC/TV levels and 3dlut for each display linked to AV Receiver.

Thanks !
tschi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th August 2013, 13:59   #19875  |  Link
kasper93
MPC-HC Developer
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Poland
Posts: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Is there a way to make txt subtitles respect the video/3D LUT? Or is this a limitation of MPC-HC's subtitle renderer?
It's not a limitation of the sub renderer. MPC-HC doesn't support any kind of the 3DLUT. You can use XySubFilter (not sure if 3dlut is applied to text subs, it should be) or just use VSfilter like renderer which will add subtitles to video frame before it reach madVR
kasper93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2013, 03:45   #19876  |  Link
Yvese
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Hi. I have a 144hz monitor ( ASUS VG248QE ) and was wondering if this refresh rate is supposed to reduce/eliminate motion judder due to it being a multiple of 24p. I'm mainly watching anime atm and I used this guide to set up MPC-HC and MadVR ( I'm using the highest preset in the guide for scaling )

Sadly, motion judder is still existent and is even worse now since Smooth Motion appears to not work at 120hz. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this and whether or not I'm missing something.

Specs are: 2600k @ 4.5ghz with a radeon 7950.

Last edited by Yvese; 19th August 2013 at 03:47.
Yvese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2013, 05:00   #19877  |  Link
webs0r
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post
Hi. I have a 144hz monitor ( ASUS VG248QE ) and was wondering if this refresh rate is supposed to reduce/eliminate motion judder due to it being a multiple of 24p. I'm mainly watching anime atm and I used this guide to set up MPC-HC and MadVR ( I'm using the highest preset in the guide for scaling )

Sadly, motion judder is still existent and is even worse now since Smooth Motion appears to not work at 120hz. I was wondering if anyone could help me with this and whether or not I'm missing something.

Specs are: 2600k @ 4.5ghz with a radeon 7950.
I would run at 120 Hz and turn smooth motion off. No benefit to smooth motion in madVR when the refresh rate is an exact multiple of the source; it should be perfect for you already.

If judder persists in this case it must be the source.
webs0r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2013, 05:37   #19878  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,597
i got a vg248 too.

make sure windows aero uses composition rate 120 hz. that hard some times else use fullscreen exlusive mode.

you can put smoothmotion on always if you like. you shouldn't be able too see the ghosting in 120 hz but the frame repeat every ~42 sec is gone.

use lightboost : http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/
this reduce motion blur a little in 24hz and it nearly completely eliminate on true 120 hz content

and try 1 of these icc profiles : http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/asus-vg248qe
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2013, 09:12   #19879  |  Link
nonob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12
Hi,
Sorry if the answer is somewhere in the 994 pages
Can i use dxva with madvr and mpchc on Windows XP ?

Thanks
nonob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th August 2013, 09:15   #19880  |  Link
wanezhiling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,168
No, madVR only supports DXVA2.0 which is not available on WinXP.
wanezhiling is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.