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Old 17th May 2018, 15:54   #50901  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown shoes View Post
Not really. It doesn't mention whether or not an existing LUT will be ignored when Pixel shader math HDR processing is active and the REC709 LUT still shows up in the MadVR OSD

I presume it isn't active but I would like confirmation as I need to find a work around for my HDR LUT red highlight issue.
press control+alt+shift+3 or control+shift+3
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Old 17th May 2018, 16:22   #50902  |  Link
Clown shoes
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Quote:
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press control+alt+shift+3 or control+shift+3
Thanks Huhn, that's a handy shortcut and it did help confirm there is no active LUT whilst pixel shader math is processing HDR content.
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Old 17th May 2018, 16:28   #50903  |  Link
Clown shoes
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For anyone curious, here is an example of the strange issue I am having when applying a HDR 3DLUT in MadVR

PASSTHROUGH

https://picload.org/image/doooodia/hdrpassthrough.png


PIXEL SHADER

https://picload.org/image/doooodii/1...shadermath.png


3D LUT

https://picload.org/image/doooodil/1000nitpl3dlut.png

Last edited by Clown shoes; 17th May 2018 at 18:08.
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Old 17th May 2018, 17:16   #50904  |  Link
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I have a relatively severe issue with exclusive mode on current windows 10, on an AMD GPU (R9 290). It does play normally eventually but for the first 3 to 6 seconds it stays frozen without showing motion.

Has this been addressed before?
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Old 17th May 2018, 17:56   #50905  |  Link
huhn
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you can try a clipping shader:

Code:
sampler s0 : register(s0);

float4 main(float2 tex : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
  return clamp(tex2D(s0, tex),0.0, 1.0);
}
and please stick to links not everyone wants to see a wall of pictures.
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Old 17th May 2018, 18:07   #50906  |  Link
Clown shoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you can try a clipping shader:

Code:
sampler s0 : register(s0);

float4 main(float2 tex : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
  return clamp(tex2D(s0, tex),0.0, 1.0);
}
and please stick to links not everyone wants to see a wall of pictures.
Woops! I forgot Doom9 doesn't scale images. let me go back and fix that.

regarding the clipping shader, how exactly does it work and where would I apply it?
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:00   #50907  |  Link
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as a shader in mpc-hc.
don't expect much.
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:13   #50908  |  Link
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That 3DLUT example looks exactly like mine did when the video went above what the 3DLUT was mapping. I had to turn up the peak nits setting for the content but I could never get it to work when using PC mode on my TV, with its poor gamut coverage, I always had a similar magenta out of gamut/clipping issue.
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:17   #50909  |  Link
Clown shoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
That 3DLUT example looks exactly like mine did when the video went above what the 3DLUT was mapping. I had to turn up the peak nits setting for the content but I could never get it to work when using PC mode on my TV, with its poor gamut coverage, I always had a similar magenta out of gamut/clipping issue.
Yes that's exactly the problem. I can increase the peak luminance to around 2500 nits and that will prevent the issue, but of course that brings down the entire luminance by a significant amount.

Did you ever find a workaround with your particular display?
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:34   #50910  |  Link
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does the shader work or atleast make it better?
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Old 17th May 2018, 19:49   #50911  |  Link
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does the shader work or atleast make it better?
I've not had a chance to test that yet as DSPlayer is my weapon of choice.

I am still working with Florian to see if we can get the 3DLUT working so I haven't completely given up hope yet
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:13   #50912  |  Link
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Is anyone here familiar with creating HDR test patterns in Mad TPG?

Under the HDR dropdown I'm not sure what I should be setting the nits to?

Should it be the closest to the maximum my display is capable of (430nits in my case) or is it the peak luminanace (1000 nits in my case) or maybe something else?
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:32   #50913  |  Link
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I'm gonna give Windows 8.1 a try on my HTPC (swap out Win10), and may I ask which nVidia driver version works best for MadVr and a GTX 1080 card? I don't play any games on this machine, so MadVr is my only consern.
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:44   #50914  |  Link
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Did you ever find a workaround with your particular display?
I did, I had to put it in any mode beside PC because it's HDR behavior is much better when not in PC mode. However, it is then 4:2:2.

I still have to set the peak nits at or above the real peak in the content or it will do that, and some movies go pretty high, I have seen up to 2500 before.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 17th May 2018 at 21:10.
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:52   #50915  |  Link
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I did, I had to put it in any mode beside PC because it's HDR behavior is much better when not in PC mode. However, it is then 4:2:2.

I still have to set the peak nits at or above the real peak in the content or it will do that, and some movies go pretty high, I have seen up to 2500 before.
Ah, that's frustrating. Which TV is it, if you don't mind me asking?

You may be interested to know that I have managed to get rid of nearly all of the clipping by setting a very large number of patches on the HDR profile. The default is 175 but I ran 1100 at Florian's suggestion and nearly all of the clipping has gone. I'm currently running a 1500 patch profile and fingers crossed the clipping will be totally gone this time.

Out of interest have you noticed an overall reduction in luminance since using HDR 3DLUTS? Everything seems just a little bit duller than with passthrough to me.
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Old 17th May 2018, 21:10   #50916  |  Link
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It is LG's 2017 OLED, C7P.

I also used high patch counts, I believe I was using ~1000. Maybe I should try some more but when not using PC mode I got good results (no banding/clipping). It is expected that a 3DLUT (or any software calibration) would lower brightness, the only way to do any type of correction in software is to send <100% because you can never send >100%.

I ended up not using a 3DLUT for HDR, I did a manual calibration of my TV in Calman and simply use passthrough in madVR. Ideally you need a 3DLUT for every video with the peek nits set for the metadata of that video and after the manual calibration, and in home theater mode, my TV does a decent job tone mapping. A 3DLUT crafted for a particular video is a little better but passthough is better than using a "worst case" 3DLUT for everything.

I think there is more difficult HDR content, for example some of the earlier Harry Potter movies have very high peek nits in a few scenes (causing out of gamut issues like this) while most newer movies seem to use a more reasonable peek nits and all look good with the same 3DLUT.
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Old 17th May 2018, 21:40   #50917  |  Link
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It is LG's 2017 OLED, C7P.

I also used high patch counts, I believe I was using ~1000. Maybe I should try some more but when not using PC mode I got good results (no banding/clipping). It is expected that a 3DLUT (or any software calibration) would lower brightness, the only way to do any type of correction in software is to send <100% because you can never send >100%.

I ended up not using a 3DLUT for HDR, I did a manual calibration of my TV in Calman and simply use passthrough in madVR. Ideally you need a 3DLUT for every video with the peek nits set for the metadata of that video and after the manual calibration, and in home theater mode, my TV does a decent job tone mapping. A 3DLUT crafted for a particular video is a little better but passthough is better than using a "worst case" 3DLUT for everything.

I think there is more difficult HDR content, for example some of the earlier Harry Potter movies have very high peek nits in a few scenes (causing out of gamut issues like this) while most newer movies seem to use a more reasonable peek nits and all look good with the same 3DLUT.
Yeah, well if I'm honest I think I'm going to give up on the 3D LUT route as well. I just tried again with 1500 patches and although it's much better it still doesn't look nearly as good as passthrough or pixel shader math. I may go back and have another crack at calibrating the display much like you have done.

One question I do have for you; is there a reason you've chosen to use Passthrough rather than have MadVR pixel shader math do the work?
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Old 17th May 2018, 22:02   #50918  |  Link
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Concerning exclusive and windowed

I'm sorry if this has been addressed... If tried to skim this long thread but I would really appreciate some answers to Fullscreen exclusive vs fullscreen windowed;
Is there any discerning difference in performance?
I have a 1070 TI strix with a i7-4790k and 16 GB ram and I've had several issues with "failed exclusive mode" when running files in a playlist..and at worst, when moving the mouse sometimes the screen goes blank and I'm forced to hard reset the PC to get out of it..However, running in fullscreen windowed doesn't give any issues whatsoever. I've read that using exclusive mode isn't a must anymore..long story short; is fullscreen windowed with d3d11 as good as exclusive?
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Old 17th May 2018, 22:08   #50919  |  Link
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One question I do have for you; is there a reason you've chosen to use Passthrough rather than have MadVR pixel shader math do the work?
What work? Pixel shader math simply keeps the TV in one tone mapping mode while passthrough tells the TV different metadata but the TV still does its tone mapping either way. I don't notice an improvement having madVR's pixel shaders pre-processing for the TV and I always default to less processing if I don't see an improvement.

I use very different display settings for HDR, via its HDR mode, so I don't use pixel shaders (or 3DLUT) to convert to SDR. ~680 nits is way too high for SDR.

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is fullscreen windowed with d3d11 as good as exclusive?
Yes, I like it better myself.

Edit: There is currently limited 10-bit support in fullscreen windowed d3d11 so use exclusive if you need 10 bit. I recommend sticking to 8 bit output in most cases anyway but it is good to know if you are testing 10 bit output.
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Old 17th May 2018, 22:21   #50920  |  Link
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What work? Pixel shader math simply keeps the TV in one tone mapping mode while passthrough tells the TV different metadata but the TV still does its tone mapping either way. I don't notice an improvement having madVR's pixel shaders pre-processing for the TV and I always default to less processing if I don't see an improvement.

I use very different display settings for HDR, via its HDR mode, so I don't use pixel shaders (or 3DLUT) to convert to SDR. ~680 nits is way too high for SDR.



Yes, I like it better myself.

Edit: There is currently limited 10-bit support in fullscreen windowed d3d11 so use exclusive if you need 10 bit. I recommend sticking to 8 bit output in most cases anyway but it is good to know if you are testing 10 bit.
Don't think I can do 10 bit with my panasonic vt65..never seen 10-bit when playing any source so I'll stick with 8-bit and windowed mode..hate the exclusive "switching" so I guess I'll go with that until I buy a new TV (have my eye on the new Q9n 65"..might wait for microled..but I'm an impatient bastard)
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