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Old 25th September 2011, 12:27   #9861  |  Link
Andy o
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Have you enabled VSync on ReClock? If so, disable it. It might also be a good idea to "clean-up video clock timings database" on ReClock's advanced settings.
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Old 25th September 2011, 12:30   #9862  |  Link
nand chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Reference monitors that content is created on, are 2.40 gamma.

Everything else you say is more-or-less correct. No display should be running the 709 curve, it is for camera encoding, not playback.
Okay good to know. I'll use and recommend 2.40 gamma when viewing in a properly setup reference environment. (D50, 64 lux ambient, 80 cd/mē illuminant)
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Old 25th September 2011, 12:55   #9863  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
Have you enabled VSync on ReClock? If so, disable it. It might also be a good idea to "clean-up video clock timings database" on ReClock's advanced settings.
That seems to have done the trick,

It's crazy though that it takes such specific settings just to get smooth playback. It should not be so difficult to achieve!! It basically means anyone who doesn't know exactly what to do is almost guaranteed to get stuttering of some sort. Especially if they are using other more standard renderers and if Aero is enabled - if using Nvidia and newer drivers it seems. Not sure about ATI. Thank god for madVR and the fullscreen exclusive mode. madshi, you rule

Default settings in players (ie. EVR using WMP12) have also had much worse stuttering ever since nvidia driver 258.96. I made a thread over at the nvidia forums here. I had stuck with driver 258.96 for a long time but now using this new solution with mpc-hc, madvr etc I can use the newest 285 driver

Last edited by deado; 25th September 2011 at 15:29.
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Old 25th September 2011, 22:13   #9864  |  Link
Andy o
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What "specific settings" are you referring to? The "clean-up video timings" thing you don't normally have to do, but sometimes it just gets corrupted.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:58   #9865  |  Link
deado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
What "specific settings" are you referring to? The "clean-up video timings" thing you don't normally have to do, but sometimes it just gets corrupted.
I just mean generally - ie. Vsync settings.

And having to use madVR in exclusive mode just to get smooth playback- ie. no other renderer for me gives perfectly smooth playback under any circumstances when doing 24hz output - they all stutter somehow or another. I think this is the combination of crappy Nvidia drivers lately and the complications of Aero and GPU usage.

From what I have tested on my setup, any other renderer (EVR, VMR9, Overlay, Haali, whatever) gives stuttering of some sort - and I have been testing this for months and months trying different settings. Nothing is perfect except this madVR solution in fullscreen exclusive mode with Reclock Vsync disabled like you suggested. From what I've found, it seems to be Aero on = stuttering regardless. So madVR's exclusive mode with Aero off (and no tearing) gives the best results.

It's just a sad state of affairs that to get smooth playback from a PC output is so difficult in the first place! And that 99% of combinations of players/renderers/settings cause stuttering. At least for me anyway - but I assume it is similar for others? At least those with Nvidia cards - since I think that is where a lot of the source of problems come from. Maybe it's just my particular set up, dunno, but I'm glad I've finally got smooth playback

Last edited by deado; 26th September 2011 at 11:09.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:48   #9866  |  Link
Andy o
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The only generalized problem I've seen with Nvidia here in the madVR thread is probably the glitches thing, but that's fixable with madVR's anti glitch options.
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Old 27th September 2011, 00:22   #9867  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
The only generalized problem I've seen with Nvidia here in the madVR thread is probably the glitches thing, but that's fixable with madVR's anti glitch options.
Not anymore for me with the 280.xx drivers. I don't have a DX11 capable GPU though. Even with all the options enabled I still get a lot of glitches.

I'm using the old exclusive mode now and it seems to work better, at least I don't notice anything wrong with it.
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Old 27th September 2011, 06:21   #9868  |  Link
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Im currently having a issue where when i playback on my second monitor using D3D11 for presentation and i enter exclusive mode MPC-HC crashes with the below error:
Code:
Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:	BEX
  Application Name:	mpc-hc.exe
  Application Version:	1.5.2.3456
  Application Timestamp:	4e29d332
  Fault Module Name:	madVR.ax
  Fault Module Version:	0.74.0.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:	4e516bc2
  Exception Offset:	0003231a
  Exception Code:	c000000d
  Exception Data:	00000000
  OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:	1033
  Additional Information 1:	0a68
  Additional Information 2:	0a6884bbdf5111fa2279f2535a7cd566
  Additional Information 3:	749e
  Additional Information 4:	749e8f106870e5fcdbc114acbc3c00d2
the other problem that i have is that unless i enter exclusive mode there is a blinking box in the upper right hand corner of the display (which is rather annoying).

I am also still having this problem on my laptop. when i try to play a fullscreen video with madVR and MPC-HC. After a few seconds i it crashes and i get this error from windows:

Code:
Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:	BEX
  Application Name:	mpc-hc.exe
  Application Version:	1.5.2.3456
  Application Timestamp:	4e29d332
  Fault Module Name:	madVR.ax
  Fault Module Version:	0.74.0.0
  Fault Module Timestamp:	4e516bc2
  Exception Offset:	0003231a
  Exception Code:	c000000d
  Exception Data:	00000000
  OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
  Locale ID:	1033
  Additional Information 1:	cfd3
  Additional Information 2:	cfd39af6f2554026609aee2812317e49
  Additional Information 3:	ba1d
  Additional Information 4:	ba1d1af66b681e7b15d51afc345f34da
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Old 27th September 2011, 06:47   #9869  |  Link
Andy o
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalston View Post
Not anymore for me with the 280.xx drivers. I don't have a DX11 capable GPU though. Even with all the options enabled I still get a lot of glitches.

I'm using the old exclusive mode now and it seems to work better, at least I don't notice anything wrong with it.
I'm using the 285 drivers and GTX 460. Glitches are fixed for me when enabling the 2nd and 3rd options. The 1st (separate thread) gets me stuttering after skipping sometimes, but either enabled or disabled, it's the same for glitches.
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Old 27th September 2011, 12:17   #9870  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
I'm using the 285 drivers and GTX 460. Glitches are fixed for me when enabling the 2nd and 3rd options. The 1st (separate thread) gets me stuttering after skipping sometimes, but either enabled or disabled, it's the same for glitches.
But did you tick "use a separate device for presentation" and "use D3D11 for presentation"? Madshi said he needed these for smooth playback, as long as the GPU is DX11 capable.
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Old 27th September 2011, 12:41   #9871  |  Link
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DX11 fixes all glitch issues for me, however the DX11 mode is kinda annoying, because it has some bugs with redrawing the desktop when you exit the full screen mode.
I now run without either DX11 or "use separate device", i only tick the 2nd and 3rd glitch tweak, and it seems ok.
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Old 27th September 2011, 16:12   #9872  |  Link
madhatter300871
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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
I was in your exact shoes not long ago. I did some research and this is what I found:

With HDMI from the Nvidia card it's sending out 16-235 even if you set it to 0-255 in the desktop. Do this:
I am using madVR, Nvidia 8400GS, latest drivers (as of a few weeks ago). Nvidia outputs 0-255 for the desktop, and allows the media player to control output for video.

In the madVR settings I have selected that my monitor expects 0-255. I have then set my projector to accept 0-255 input. For me I don't have a problem, if I change madVR to output 16-235 I see a noticeable difference as would be expected.

Regarding using a pure power curve as opposed to BT.709/601 curve .... should I be using a pure power curve ? I did 'play' with this setting but in truth was not really sure what I should do for the best. Is my Z4 an sRGB display ? I have set the PC to use Adobe RGB colour profile for my projector.
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Old 27th September 2011, 17:07   #9873  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter300871 View Post
Regarding using a pure power curve as opposed to BT.709/601 curve .... should I be using a pure power curve?
Yes, most likely.

Quote:
I did 'play' with this setting but in truth was not really sure what I should do for the best. Is my Z4 an sRGB display?
The best way to demonstrate is to register the madTestPatternGenerator (located in madVR's folder) and run the smallramp.ytp sample. If you set it to PPC (at which level it's exactly linear depends on the gamma curve of your projector, you'll have to experiment).

Then, observe the values near the black point. For PPC, it should be a relatively smooth drop-off to black.

For the BT.709 curve, you'll notice that it sort of just drops off at a certain point. (It's best to test this at a lower gamma setting like 2.2 (instead of 2.4/2.5), and the effect becomes more noticeable as you go lower, eg. 1.8)

Quote:
I have set the PC to use Adobe RGB colour profile for my projector.
You need to be very, very careful here - madVR doesn't use or respect your windows color profile settings at all. It's only capable of using a .3dlut for color management.

Fortunately, you can use the built-in option for the yCMS mode to have it generate this automatically.

Just choose “calibrate this display by using yCMS” and enter the following in the top field:

Code:
red, Yxy, 1.0, 0.6400, 0.3300
green, Yxy, 1.0, 0.2100, 0.7100
blue, Yxy, 1.0, 0.1500, 0.0600
white, Yxy, 1.0, 0.31271, 0.32902
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Last edited by nand chan; 27th September 2011 at 17:11.
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Old 27th September 2011, 18:05   #9874  |  Link
kalston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
DX11 fixes all glitch issues for me, however the DX11 mode is kinda annoying, because it has some bugs with redrawing the desktop when you exit the full screen mode.
I now run without either DX11 or "use separate device", i only tick the 2nd and 3rd glitch tweak, and it seems ok.
Sadly it's not enough for me on my GTX275.
If the next nVidia drivers (I don't like using beta drivers) don't fix it I'll probably try going back to 260.xx drivers or something.

Last edited by kalston; 27th September 2011 at 18:11.
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Old 27th September 2011, 21:21   #9875  |  Link
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Well, I discovered something new tonight. madVR bypasses the Nvidia video brightness/contrast/hue etc so when I slide them in the nvidia control panel nothing happens. OK, no big deal because I never used them anyway. However, the nvidia brightness/contrast/gamma/hue/digital vibrance settings for the desktop DO affect the rendered video. I never realised this, I had them set to some arbitrary value, my desktop looked OK and I wasn't really that bothered.

I have now tweaked them a little and made a vast improvement to the video, mainly lowered the contrast a touch to get much more detail in dark areas, and upped the digital vibrance a tiny amount which gives, to my eye at least, a more vibrant picture.

In response to 'nand chan' I played with the yCMS calibration values and to be honest I couldn't see a difference, so I am running with not calibrated mode for now. To be honest, I have no idea what so ever how all those calculations work, I have never read up on it and find myself being very lazy indeed in doing so. I'm prepared to accept that it's beyond me for the time being.
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Old 27th September 2011, 21:33   #9876  |  Link
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On a different note ... I pressed control-j to get the debug info displayed and I am getting a few dropped frames when the video starts (which I have read is normal) and 1 frame duplicated every 20 minutes or so. Is this normal ?

My projector accepts 50Hz and 60Hz input.

With 23.976, 24 and 25 fps source, with projector/nvidia card set to 60Hz I get 1 frame repeat about every 20 minutes or so.

With 23.976, 24 and 25 fps source, with projector/nvidia card set to 50Hz I get 1 frame repeat about every 1 second or so and hundreds of 'render glitches'.

I can't use reclock because I send audio direct to my amp, which reclock will not let me do (I dont think). I was expecting the 25fps video to play perfectly at 50Hz, but not so !

Do my figures look normal ? Again, madVR is new to me so I am still getting familiar with it.
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Old 27th September 2011, 22:04   #9877  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madhatter300871 View Post
In response to 'nand chan' I played with the yCMS calibration values and to be honest I couldn't see a difference, so I am running with not calibrated mode for now. To be honest, I have no idea what so ever how all those calculations work, I have never read up on it and find myself being very lazy indeed in doing so. I'm prepared to accept that it's beyond me for the time being.
Well, first of all, it's important to know what the exact chromatic signature of your projector looks like, then you can adjust video to whatever to get accurate colors.

To demonstrate the difference, it's probably best to display something very green (I love to use the grass scene at the start of Madoka episode 1, shortly after the OP) - our eyes are most sensitive to the green receptors so the difference is more obvious, compared to something like blue which we basically can't detect very well at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter300871 View Post
I can't use reclock because I send audio direct to my amp, which reclock will not let me do (I dont think)..
The only thing ReClock can't do is stream to ASIO, but if you use Windows 7, it can use WASAPI (and if Windows XP, kernel streaming), to directly stream PCM / DTS / AC3 / whatever to your receiver / amp / sound card / HDMI connection, bypassing the entire Windows audio stack etc.

You need to use an audio filter that can bitstream the audio (like ffdshow audio), and enable the streaming options in ReClock + set the correct output device.
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Old 28th September 2011, 03:41   #9878  |  Link
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I noticed that once in a while the following lines fleetingly appears in the OSD:

Composition Rate: 23.976Hz
Clock Deviation: -.1xxx%


(where xxx is presumably the percentage difference between the actual display frequency [the top line of the OSD] and the composition rate (?) ])

Why does this appear and disappear at seemingly random intervals? (While it often displays when I do something like turn subtitles on or off or switch between exclusive and windowed mode. this does not need to be the case.)

I am especially confused since my display value is never exactly 23.976Hz.

I should note that I am using ReClock - with it I see a "1 frame drop" on the order of hours, if not days. In addition, from what I understand, the other values appear solid (once reset, I do not see any frame-drops nor delays and my queues are all full...)

Is this simply some sort of logic written into the OSD to occasionally show these values, or is there something improperly configured in my system that is still causing sync/frame-rate issues?

Thanks much! Once again I love this renderer!!
MikeY
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Old 28th September 2011, 09:01   #9879  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
The only thing ReClock can't do is stream to ASIO, but if you use Windows 7, it can use WASAPI (and if Windows XP, kernel streaming), to directly stream PCM / DTS / AC3 / whatever to your receiver / amp / sound card / HDMI connection, bypassing the entire Windows audio stack etc.

You need to use an audio filter that can bitstream the audio (like ffdshow audio), and enable the streaming options in ReClock + set the correct output device.
I use windows XP, and I use ffdshow. OK, I'll set re-clock to use kernel streaming, I have already set ffdshow to send DTS and AC3 direct to the amp .... all I got was noise ..... I'll try again tonight.

However, if I do this am i not defeating the object. The video will play at a different rate but the audio will not ?

Like Mikey2, I also get 1 frame drop / frame repeat in the order of about 1 every 20 minutes or so, I have seen it go up to an hour or so.
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Old 28th September 2011, 20:19   #9880  |  Link
mzso
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Hi!
I had my screen rotated and I wanted to check out something in on of the videos. But the player hung. After that I tried with other players and madVR hung all. (potplayer, kmplayer, mpc-hc)
All were fine with EVR.
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