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Old 26th March 2018, 15:32   #541  |  Link
foxyshadis
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Are they still using "Golden Frames"? Shouldn't the bframe patents have expired by now?
Golden Frames are a technically elegant solution in their current form; there's no real reason to switch back to B-frames. There's a bit more bookkeeping overhead, which is largely squeezed out in the entropy coding, but the flip side is greater flexibility if the encoder chooses to use it. (VP9's implementation generally doesn't stray far from the classic P and B types, but AV1 supposedly uses them to greater effect by shuffling blocks around in more interesting ways.)
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Old 26th March 2018, 15:41   #542  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
But optional, IIRC. I think basically no decoder implemented it.

Will it be mandatory for AV1?
Absolutely, just like the in-loop filter.
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Old 27th March 2018, 08:12   #543  |  Link
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New upload: AOM v0.1.0-8892-g10b745615
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Old 27th March 2018, 11:36   #544  |  Link
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I wonder if aom will remain the only encoder/decoder, or whether third parties will develop something such as x264/x265 projects or maybe the ffmpeg people.

(Didn't there used to be an ffvp8 encoder? I don't see it listed in ffmpeg as a decoder/codec.)
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Old 27th March 2018, 11:49   #545  |  Link
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Of course, there will be several "Next Generation Video Codec" projects; e.g. there is a lively discussion about xvc in this board. ... BTW, where is schweinsz?

On2 VP8 / Google VP9 can be used in ffmpeg, no more need to develop an alternative decoder, I guess... a non-free "everything goes" ffmpeg build by the media-autobuild_suite contains:

Code:
 DEV.L. vp8                  On2 VP8 (decoders: vp8 libvpx vp8_cuvid vp8_qsv ) (encoders: libvpx )
 DEV.L. vp9                  Google VP9 (decoders: vp9 libvpx-vp9 vp9_cuvid ) (encoders: libvpx-vp9 )
I am quite confident that an ffmpeg with a more restricted license, which is allowed to be distributed (like zeranoe's selection), will contain them too.

But as long as the AV1 format is not "frozen", ffmpeg will at most "know about it" (maybe detect its presence in some containers with matching content type flags?); as codec it is not yet implemented.

Code:
 ..V.L. av1                  Alliance for Open Media AV1
Quoted output is part of ffmpeg -codecs
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Old 27th March 2018, 12:01   #546  |  Link
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Once av1 takes off, I would expect someone to develop a decoder for ffmpeg eventually. Encoders, probably not. Thats more suited for stand-alone projects from the sheer complexity of it.
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Old 27th March 2018, 12:03   #547  |  Link
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Of course, there will be several "Next Generation Video Codec" projects; e.g. there is a lively discussion about xvc in this board. ... [i]BTW, where is schweinsz?
I think mzso means other implementations of the AV1 specs. For example ffmpeg has two VP9 software decoders (as your quote from the help shows), the one coming from Google ("libvpx-vp9") and FFvp9 ("vp9") developed in spite of already having the free Google one.
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Old 27th March 2018, 12:09   #548  |  Link
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If ffmpeg developers disagree with some opinions of the original team about e.g. programming styles, I would not be surprised if they may be going to show how it can be made better; wasn't that a reason to develop VPx codecs in parallel to Google? I do not remember everything in detail, but I believe efficiency was one of the focus points.
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Old 27th March 2018, 12:42   #549  |  Link
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I think mzso means other implementations of the AV1 specs. For example ffmpeg has two VP9 software decoders (as your quote from the help shows), the one coming from Google ("libvpx-vp9") and FFvp9 ("vp9") developed in spite of already having the free Google one.
I don't see ffvp9 either in ffmpeg (zeranoe), which is strange if it's an ffmpeg internal decoder, as suggested the "ff" part.
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Old 27th March 2018, 12:52   #550  |  Link
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Like I quoted:
-c:v "vp9" is ffvp9
-c:v "libvpx-vp9" is the one from Google
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Old 27th March 2018, 13:38   #551  |  Link
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They are not called "ffvp9" internally, its just "vp9", which is listed in the quoted output above.

Anyway distinct decoder implementations have several advantages. Often it helps to find bugs in the original decoder, and historically the ffmpeg decoders have also been faster - and they serve as a platform for hardware acceleration, which is not possible with an external decoder like using libaom.
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Old 27th March 2018, 14:11   #552  |  Link
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@sneaker_ger @nevcairiel
Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. It was also confusing that it's named google VP9:
Code:
 VFS..D vp9                  Google VP9
 V....D libvpx-vp9           libvpx VP9 (codec vp9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Once av1 takes off, I would expect someone to develop a decoder for ffmpeg eventually. Encoders, probably not. Thats more suited for stand-alone projects from the sheer complexity of it.
Yeah, a completely software encoder doesn't feel too likely to me. I guess if someone really wants a feature can just add it to aomenc, unless they're just morbidly resistant to external input. Maybe fork it at most.
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Old 27th March 2018, 19:00   #553  |  Link
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Quote:
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it's named google VP9
because Google developed the specifications (theory) further from the base of the VP8 specifications originally developed by On2. But there can be different implementations (practice), not only from Google, but also from different authors, still based on the same specifications, but with different code. The listing is indeed not really unambiguous.
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Old 27th March 2018, 19:53   #554  |  Link
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aomedia.org new site

Coming Soon to a Screen Near You
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:54   #555  |  Link
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aomedia.org new site

Coming Soon to a Screen Near You
Site looks nice
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Old 28th March 2018, 07:34   #556  |  Link
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Old 28th March 2018, 12:39   #557  |  Link
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I wonder if aom will remain the only encoder/decoder, or whether third parties will develop something such as x264/x265 projects or maybe the ffmpeg people.
There is "rav1e" - rust AV1 encoder from Mozilla/Xiph guys: https://github.com/xiph/rav1e
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Old 28th March 2018, 14:19   #558  |  Link
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Mail just went out from AOMedia, looks like AV1 is now a codec
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Old 28th March 2018, 14:39   #559  |  Link
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Yep, AV1 1.0 spec is official: https://aomedia.org/the-alliance-for...h-av1-release/

1.0 spec (619 pages) PDF: https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-spec/av1-spec.pdf

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Old 28th March 2018, 16:36   #560  |  Link
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Now, what plan / ideas do they have to speed it up by 10 to 50x?
And what sort of time frame could we expect that in?
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