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Old 2nd June 2018, 22:29   #51141  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
378.78 is only 15 months old. While this is pretty old for gaming, it should be fine for madVR.
Fair enough. That driver still might have issues with HDR compatibility.
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Old 2nd June 2018, 22:30   #51142  |  Link
Warner306
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Some information on AACS 2.1, which is now out for Sony movies Fury and Patriot:

AACS 2.1 and Disc Ripping

AACS 2.x and madVR go hand-in-hand these days. Hopefully, this link is permissible here...
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Old 2nd June 2018, 22:36   #51143  |  Link
veggav
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Nvidia and madVR will ignore the Windows color settings, as long as you turned off HDR and WCG. You should keep the desktop at RGB Full at all times. Set 60 Hz to 8-bit RGB. Select each of the playback refresh rates (30 Hz and below) and set them to RGB 12-bits and save.

madVR will determine what color gamut is sent to the GPU based on the source and what is set in calibration.

The only caveat with this setup is that you'll have to use fullscreen exclusive mode with 4K content to get HDR10 passthrough to work due to a driver issue. Or, you could just output everything at 8-bits in windowed mode.
How do you "save"? I've set Use Nvidia Color settings with 60hz with 8 bit RGB Full.
Than I switched to every refresh under 30hz and selected YPbPr 4:2:2 and 10bits, limited, and applied.
But whenever I toggle the refresh in Nvidia control panel it keeps the last used color setting.

HDR is still working tough.

Also MadVR shows primaries as BT2020 in HDR mode and -> DCI-P3.
This means it's converting BT2020 to DCI? I tried to set calibration to BT2020 and disable calibration but this still shows in the OSD.

Is that a normal behavior?
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Old 2nd June 2018, 22:44   #51144  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
How do you "save"? I've set Use Nvidia Color settings with 60hz with 8 bit RGB Full.
Than I switched to every refresh under 30hz and selected YPbPr 4:2:2 and 10bits, limited, and applied.
But whenever I toggle the refresh in Nvidia control panel it keeps the last used color setting.

HDR is still working tough.

Also MadVR shows primaries as BT2020 in HDR mode and -> DCI-P3.
This means it's converting BT2020 to DCI? I tried to set calibration to BT2020 and disable calibration but this still shows in the OSD.

Is that a normal behavior?
I said set everything to 12-bit RGB Full, not Y'CbCr 4:2:2. You don't want the GPU to do a range conversion from RGB to Y'CbCr before reaching the display. You should select the resolution, apply RGB 12-bit and save. The other way to do it is to play a video and go back to the GPU control panel and make the change and save. You don't have to select the refresh rate a second time after doing this.

The primaries are DCI-P3 but they are in a BT.2020 container. That's all that is saying. There is no conversion.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 00:52   #51145  |  Link
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Seems that my issues were because I was using algotihms that were too aggressive somehow...

BTW, I think some bugs might have been caused by windows updates as well.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 01:28   #51146  |  Link
veggav
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I said set everything to 12-bit RGB Full, not Y'CbCr 4:2:2. You don't want the GPU to do a range conversion from RGB to Y'CbCr before reaching the display. You should select the resolution, apply RGB 12-bit and save. The other way to do it is to play a video and go back to the GPU control panel and make the change and save. You don't have to select the refresh rate a second time after doing this.

The primaries are DCI-P3 but they are in a BT.2020 container. That's all that is saying. There is no conversion.
Playing the video worked after changing the setting per refresh, set everything to RGB 12Bit Full here.

Thank you, Warner, for your patience explaining those basic features for me.
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Old 3rd June 2018, 16:06   #51147  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Playing the video worked after changing the setting per refresh, set everything to RGB 12Bit Full here.

Thank you, Warner, for your patience explaining those basic features for me.
Great. You can confirm 12-bit RGB is working by visiting the GPU control panel during playback. Some drivers have had issues retaining these settings, but it should be fine.
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Old 4th June 2018, 09:24   #51148  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Nvidia and madVR will ignore the Windows color settings, as long as you turned off HDR and WCG. You should keep the desktop at RGB Full at all times. Set 60 Hz to 8-bit RGB. Select each of the playback refresh rates (30 Hz and below) and set them to RGB 12-bits and save.

madVR will determine what color gamut is sent to the GPU based on the source and what is set in calibration.

The only caveat with this setup is that you'll have to use fullscreen exclusive mode with 4K content to get HDR10 passthrough to work due to a driver issue. Or, you could just output everything at 8-bits in windowed mode.
Are you sure to have to use fullscreen exclusive mode with 4K UHD content so as to get HDR10 pass through normally to work due to a driver issue?
No wonder my cpu usage is so high,even close to 100% at one time in windowed mode when i play 4K UHD movies with HDR10 special effects trying to use the 'passthrough' feature.i don't know whether the high usage of cpu is related to the windowed mode or not?
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Old 4th June 2018, 10:21   #51149  |  Link
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with nvidia card you currently need FSE for 10 bit.

madVR only really uses the CPU with copyback decoding.
there are some HDR features that can use the CPU. FSE or windowed has nothing todo with that.
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Old 4th June 2018, 10:41   #51150  |  Link
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What's FSE? HDR passthrough feature should not depend on cpu in theory,i think.Because cpu doesn't natively decode HDR10 contents,cpu sends only HDR10 contents to the display or TV set which is in charge of decoding HDR10 contents.
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Old 4th June 2018, 10:51   #51151  |  Link
LigH
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Full-Screen Exclusive, I guess?
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Old 4th June 2018, 11:02   #51152  |  Link
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Originally Posted by suanm View Post
What's FSE? HDR passthrough feature should not depend on cpu in theory,i think.Because cpu doesn't natively decode HDR10 contents,cpu sends only HDR10 contents to the display or TV set which is in charge of decoding HDR10 contents.
it doesn't and by default lavfilter will use software decoding which uses your CPU.
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Old 4th June 2018, 13:06   #51153  |  Link
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Is there an explanation why , with the new update Win10 1803, the rendering time in FS windowed has been reduced drastically (from 10.5 msec to 6.5 msec for my case). It seems linked to NGU algorythm but not sure. Comparative screen does not show evidence of difference.
(same behaviour with the update of Nvidia driver to 397.93)

It is strange because in FSE mode, rendering time has not changed (compared to FS windowed).
Not changed except that screen is frozen at least 5 to 10 sec when display is switched from FSW to FSE...

TY

Last edited by Polopretress; 4th June 2018 at 13:11.
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Old 4th June 2018, 13:34   #51154  |  Link
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pointless without taking GPU powerstates under consideration.
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Old 4th June 2018, 15:30   #51155  |  Link
veggav
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Great. You can confirm 12-bit RGB is working by visiting the GPU control panel during playback. Some drivers have had issues retaining these settings, but it should be fine.
Thanks for all the help Warner. Your knowledge on the subject is really amazing.

I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.

For some reason when playing the same file with the OPPO, a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k, compared to the HTPC I notice the details with more contrast while still visible. I've used AVS to set black level on both players.

When you have a scene with, let's say a candle, and poor light, while I can see all the details in both situations those seem more washed out with MadVR.

Is this related to gamma? Does my experience makes any sense?
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Old 4th June 2018, 16:41   #51156  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Thanks for all the help Warner. Your knowledge on the subject is really amazing.

I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.

For some reason when playing the same file with the OPPO, a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k, compared to the HTPC I notice the details with more contrast while still visible. I've used AVS to set black level on both players.

When you have a scene with, let's say a candle, and poor light, while I can see all the details in both situations those seem more washed out with MadVR.

Is this related to gamma? Does my experience makes any sense?
I don't know. I would expect the image to be fairly identical. The display is getting nearly the same pixels with the same gamma corrected R'G'B' values as the source, with the extra pixels being added by NGU upscaling. That wouldn't wash out the image.

The Oppo is operating in Y'CbCr, while madVR is operating in RGB. I don't think that would make a difference. You could disable calibration controls in madVR in case that is interfering, but it shouldn't. It could be the display is introducing a difference when converting from RGB to Y'CbCr 4:2:2, if that's how it does things. It's hard to say.

Try setting madVR and the GPU to 8-bits to see if that changes anything. Maybe the display doesn't like the 12-bit input from the GPU. If you're using a PC input with the HTPC, try another input.

Last edited by Warner306; 4th June 2018 at 16:47.
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Old 4th June 2018, 17:19   #51157  |  Link
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I completely understand the average madVR user demands perfection. That can make them hard to deal with. I think I tolerate far more average sources than the average madVR user.

If there is any issue, it could come down to the PC. Trying different setting might improve things; it might not.

The last madVR user I talked to couldn't see any improvement with the Oppo and sent it back. So, the experience seems to vary. Again, you are dealing with a PC...
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Old 4th June 2018, 18:48   #51158  |  Link
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I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.
Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.
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Old 4th June 2018, 18:51   #51159  |  Link
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Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.
Don't do that if you use Media Center to play Blu-ray Menus, since the latest madVR versions have a bug that break the menus. Hopefully madshi will have that fixed in the next version, but until then stick to the version MC ships.
There is usually a reason when its not up to date for a longer period of time.
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Old 4th June 2018, 19:54   #51160  |  Link
veggav
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Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.
I haven't updated it but I had no idea about the menu bug in MadVR.

What I did is, took Asmodian settings from the MadVR Options Explained settings. The Heater settings.bin because I have the same gpu, a 1080 Ti.

Just changed a few things, thanks for Warren, and it's much more natural looking.
Added exclusive full screen to be able to use 10bit.
Made everything 12bit RGB full range on anything under 30hz.
Also activated this display is calibrated to DCI.

And calibrated with AVS test patterns that are rec709 to avoid black clipping or white clipping.

Also my TV doesn't trigger DCI mode with MadVR for 1080p content. Which is kind of annoying to keep going into picture menu and changing color space from auto to DCI when I start to play a movie.

Still isn't that bad because my TV doesn't trigger game mode when 4k 60hz 4:4:4 is on, is goes into graphics mode and automatic mode detection is on.
So when watching movies I have to manually go into Cinema pro mode, just a few more clicks and change auto to DCI.

And that's basically it I'm doing.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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