Haali Renderer

[Egh]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Where is download for Haali Renderer?

@ All:

do read first two posts before asking something!

I'm constantly updating mini-FAQ in the second post, btw.

Today included answers about shaders support in the renderer and how to identify if it's working in the decoding chain

Anything else worth including in the FAQ, btw?

Also I would like to see reports on Haali renderer speed in different configurations (i.e. report OS, cpu, 3D card, drivers, resolution and colorspace used and fps, of course).

[Egh]

Originally Posted by chros

Yes, same here, aprox. 3-4 sec. Geforce 6600GT, driver 81.85, MPC 6.4.8.8
Is it right ? (maybe because of desing ?)


Same here with a *.ts file: contains a MPEG2 video ...

Again: haali renderer is supposed to have slower startup, it need to engage shaders and allocate lots of VRAM.

Can you be more specific about problems with lower resolution?

In my experience, not doing conversion from 16-235 to 0-255 will make the video look washed out on a PC display (which expects levels 0-255). 84.12 does the conversion, previous drivers do not (AFAIK).

You're right. MPEG4 is in TV range (not exactly 16-235 btw :P), PC display range is 0-255. You can test all that with just one AVS command : ColorYUV(levels="TV->PC")

Converting to RGB in ffdshow, btw, takes levels into account.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by Egh

Again: haali renderer is supposed to have slower startup, it need to engage shaders and allocate lots of VRAM.

Okay, I found the option in MPC

But startup is REALLY slow. Too slow indeed!
You press "play" and you have to wait about 10 seconds before it starts to play.
Worst is, the whole system freezes during this time.

Until this is improved, I'll have to disable Haali Renderer...

[Egh]

Originally Posted by breez

In my experience, not doing conversion from 16-235 to 0-255 will make the video look washed out on a PC display (which expects levels 0-255). 84.12 does the conversion, previous drivers do not (AFAIK).

I tried new drivers (which are still beta), but conversion is not done on YV12/YUY2 for VMR9. Or maybe that conversion is not for FX5500?

So far back to old good RGB32 output in ffdshow Btw amazingly hi-q conversion does provide a slight improvement on colors compared to plain RBG32. Can't explain why exactly

[Oline 61]

High quality conversion properly scales the chroma instead of doing pixel doubling.

[Haali]

Originally Posted by Haali

Video size that the player sees is adjusted to make the window fit inside the screen (I hate large windows that are not entirely visible). Same thing happens with smaller clips, they are enlarged to be at least 400x300.

This does not affect the image in any way.

[chros]

Originally Posted by breez

I presume the slow startup is because of buffering. Try setting the amount of buffering lower in Haali Video Renderer properties (click on it in the filters list).

I have select the minimum amount of buffer (16MB) but the problem is the same, I have measured it: 10 sec ! (All ther other renderer work ok.)

So you guys want to tell me, that you have not experienced such a slow down at loading files ????

[breez]

Originally Posted by chros

I have select the minimum amount of buffer (16MB) but the problem is the same, I have measured it: 10 sec ! (All ther other renderer work ok.)

So you guys want to tell me, that you have not experienced such a slow down at loading files ????

Yes, I have the slow down as well, but 10s is not really significant for me if I'm going to watch a video 24+ minutes long

[flanger216]

Awesome... on my sys (Radeon X1300) it's much, much faster than FFDshow's lanczos resize and looks comparable.

Only one problem: I use Zoomplayer, which has a zoom function that allows you to scale video to larger than fullscreen, which is useful when watching 4:3 letterboxed content on my widescreen monitor. However, when using the Haali Renderer, the video blanks out when I enlarge the video beyond fullscreen. Of course, I don't know if the fault lies in the renderer or Zoomplayer itself, but it works perfectly with overlay and all VMR modes.

[B.F.]

Originally Posted by flanger216

Awesome... on my sys (Radeon X1300) it's much, much faster than FFDshow's lanczos resize and looks comparable.

Only one problem: I use Zoomplayer, which has a zoom function that allows you to scale video to larger than fullscreen, which is useful when watching 4:3 letterboxed content on my widescreen monitor. However, when using the Haali Renderer, the video blanks out when I enlarge the video beyond fullscreen. Of course, I don't know if the fault lies in the renderer or Zoomplayer itself, but it works perfectly with overlay and all VMR modes.

You need to change your player.
On MPC all work OK.

[MetalPhreak]

This is pretty neat - I have a feeling this going to become my default renderer.
Ok here's a question - in the configuration for the renderer there's an option for buffer size and something called A, what is this A? (sorry if I missed this)
I also noticed the frame rate is extremely erratic - on 25fps video it's jumps between 23 and 30 fps.

[Egh]

Originally Posted by MetalPhreak

Ok here's a question - in the configuration for the renderer there's an option for buffer size and something called A, what is this A? (sorry if I missed this)
I also noticed the frame rate is extremely erratic - on 25fps video it's jumps between 23 and 30 fps.

A is supposed to be parameter which affects shaprening effect. I don't know the relation between this param and standard avc style b&c params though. Need to ask Haali about it

[B.F.]

Originally Posted by Egh

A is supposed to be parameter which affects shaprening effect. I don't know the relation between this param and standard avc style b&c params though. Need to ask Haali about it

The same as VirtualDub resize.
0.6 - soft
0.75 - normal
1.0 - sharp

[Egh]

Originally Posted by B.F.

The same as VirtualDub resize.
0.6 - soft
0.75 - normal
1.0 - sharp

What about values below 0.6?

Edit:

wheee, I found out the relation :approved:

c = -A; b + 2*c = 1;

Where A = Haali parameter; b, c = AVS parameters for bicubic sharpening.

[Rash]

Egh, just a suggestion. Include the Haali Splitter download link on your first post.

[OCedHrt]

I also have a major wait time when loading videos. 10 seconds sounds about right.

Radeon 9800 Pro
2 Ghz Athlon XP-M
1 GB RAM

Update: The load time definitely varies depending on how the video is opened. If the video is opened into a new instance of mpc, the load time is instanteous. If I re-use the MPC window, it can take anywhere from 5 seconds to 15 seconds.

[chros]

Originally Posted by B.F.

The same as VirtualDub resize.
0.6 - soft
0.75 - normal
1.0 - sharp

From the manual of Virtualdub:
"Precise bicubic (cubic spline decimation filter):
Compute the desired pixel by applying a triangle filter to the closest N source pixels, where N=16 for enlarging and N>16 for shrinking. This mode is the same as bicubic for enlargement but gives better results when shrinking. Three different modes are given, A=-1.0, A=-.75, and A=-0.6. These vary the "stiffness" of the cubic spline and control the peaking of the filter, which perceptually alters the sharpness of the output. A=-0.6 gives the most consistent results mathematically, but the other modes may produce more visually pleasing results."

- So, when you're enlarging video, these A values doesn't take account, just when you're shrinking.
- and mathematically isn't the A=-0.6 is the sharpest ?

Originally Posted by OCedHrt

Update: The load time definitely varies depending on how the video is opened. If the video is opened into a new instance of mpc, the load time is instanteous. If I re-use the MPC window, it can take anywhere from 5 seconds to 15 seconds.

Confirmed with MPC v6.4.8.9

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by OCedHrt

Update: The load time definitely varies depending on how the video is opened. If the video is opened into a new instance of mpc, the load time is instanteous. If I re-use the MPC window, it can take anywhere from 5 seconds to 15 seconds.

Hmmm...

For me it always takes 15 seconds with Haali Renderer enabled, no matter how I open the clip
(latest celtic build)

[Egh]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Hmmm...

For me it always takes 15 seconds with Haali Renderer enabled, no matter how I open the clip
(latest celtic build)

2 All:

You have to try harder to produce some more consistent report on this problem. The point is that Haali himself tried but failed to reproduce that bug.

It seems it's related to some specific DX/drivers/Card.

[Seb.26]

Originally Posted by Egh

2 All:

You have to try harder to produce some more consistent report on this problem. The point is that Haali himself tried but failed to reproduce that bug.

It seems it's related to some specific DX/drivers/Card.

Ok:
> A64 3200+
> Ge6150
> nForceWare 84.12 (beta)
> MPC+CoreAVC+Reclock

About 10s for displaying 1st frame of video ( I will try if wait time depend on buffer size ... Does the render wait the buffer is full before start playback ? )

Is that is enought ?
( In case "No" : please ask what you want )