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Old 9th July 2015, 19:16   #201  |  Link
Khanattila
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Originally Posted by sl1pkn07 View Post
[del]please send me your github user[/del]

oh, you forked it. then i can remove from my repository?

Yes, and thanks. I took configure and GNUmakefile.
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Old 9th July 2015, 19:27   #202  |  Link
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Has anyone done comparison between KNLMeans and FF3DFilter denoising quality? What's the difference?
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Old 10th July 2015, 13:55   #203  |  Link
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Has anyone done comparison between KNLMeans and FF3DFilter denoising quality? What's the difference?
NLMeans slays
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Old 10th July 2015, 21:39   #204  |  Link
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Yes, it does beat FF3DFilter! It also alters x264.exe encoding results as it gave me 41.8mb instead of 53.2mb without changing anything else, but it lost too much details in encoding. I'm trying again with higher encoding settings to compensate.

Question. For dual-graphics computer, to make sure it runs on the Radeon, if I'm running AVSMeter in a CMD shell, which application do I have to configure as "high performance", CMD or AVSMeter?
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Old 10th July 2015, 23:33   #205  |  Link
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Yes, it does beat FF3DFilter! It also alters x264.exe encoding results as it gave me 41.8mb instead of 53.2mb without changing anything else, but it lost too much details in encoding. I'm trying again with higher encoding settings to compensate.
Oh my, this is so wrong on so many levels...
First of all, you did not tell us what settings you used for the de-noisers. Secondly, you're comparing apples and oranges, the algorithms of these 2 are very different. The difference in size of your encodes just means that KNLMeans (with the settings you used which we don't know) removed more noise and therefore details.
Using "higher encoding settings" will not bring back details lost with excessive de-noising.

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Question. For dual-graphics computer, to make sure it runs on the Radeon, if I'm running AVSMeter in a CMD shell, which application do I have to configure as "high performance", CMD or AVSMeter?
No idea what "configure as high performance" means. You select the device with the KNLMeans "device_type" parameter. You can test it by using the "info = true" parameter.

Last edited by Groucho2004; 10th July 2015 at 23:36.
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Old 11th July 2015, 03:25   #206  |  Link
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Oh my, this is so wrong on so many levels... First of all, you did not tell us what settings you used for the de-noisers.
I did a very simple test. Replaced
fft3dfilter(sigma=3, bt=5, bw=48, bh=48, ow=24, oh=24, sharpen=.15)
with
KNLMeansCL(D=2, A=1, h=3)

Spatial has more impact on performance than Temporal, and I haven't seen much difference at all between D=2, A=1 and D=2, A=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Secondly, you're comparing apples and oranges, the algorithms of these 2 are very different. The difference in size of your encodes just means that KNLMeans (with the settings you used which we don't know) removed more noise and therefore details.
Using "higher encoding settings" will not bring back details lost with excessive de-noising.
Thees two commands seem to give a similar level of noise-removal. With KNLMeansCL, however, the details are sharper and there is a bit less noise. The biggest difference is in zones with lots of artifacts, where it makes those look much better.

Which means that when I preview the script, KNLMeansCL definitely has more details. By encoding with x264.exe (preset veryslow), however, there's something about KNLMeansCL's patterns that makes x264 discard much more data. So the preview has more detail while the final file has less details.

I just have to play around to adapt the encoding quality setting to compensate for this. It's not an issue, but this is curious.

Last edited by MysteryX; 11th July 2015 at 03:30.
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Old 11th July 2015, 06:43   #207  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
removed more noise and therefore details.
not true, denoisers got their own ways to distinguish noise and actual image, and some does it better, so you can kill a lot of noise and lose not that many details, some does it, well, not that good, you lose huge amount of actual image along with noise, extreme case, blurring filter, the origin of all modern denoise filters, will sacrifice the whole image to remove noise

I wouldn't use frequency domain denoisers (FFT3D and its superior DFTTest ) to do regular kind of denoise stuff, they make ringings like all frequency filters, and very destructive to high frequencies unless you don't filter high frequencies at all
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Old 11th July 2015, 08:03   #208  |  Link
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not true, denoisers got their own ways to distinguish noise and actual image, and some does it better, so you can kill a lot of noise and lose not that many details, some does it, well, not that good, you lose huge amount of actual image along with noise, extreme case, blurring filter, the origin of all modern denoise filters, will sacrifice the whole image to remove noise
Yes, but my point was simply that one de-noiser removed more of the actual image which resulted in a lower encoding size. Even noise can be considered "detail", for example when it is used as an artistic tool ("300", "Black Swan").
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Old 11th July 2015, 17:33   #209  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
Yes, but my point was simply that one de-noiser removed more of the actual image which resulted in a lower encoding size. Even noise can be considered "detail", for example when it is used as an artistic tool ("300", "Black Swan").
and my point is that this isn't the case as it left MORE details
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Old 13th July 2015, 18:35   #210  |  Link
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Version 0.5.7: https://github.com/Khanattila/KNLMea...ses/tag/v0.5.7
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Old 14th July 2015, 04:25   #211  |  Link
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G8! testing it right now
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Old 15th July 2015, 08:11   #212  |  Link
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I did an encoding test on another video. This time the output file was slightly larger than when using FF3DFilter. So, it alters the way x264.exe decides what to keep, and sometimes it gives a small output, sometimes a larger output, depending on the source.

The biggest difference I'm seeing between FF3DFilter and KNLMeans is that with this, the image almost appears 3D. Even with a very low quality source, the shapes somehow take a 3D life. Whereas the source itself is just flat; and with any blurring denoiser it still lo9oks flat.
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Old 15th July 2015, 14:08   #213  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
I did an encoding test on another video. This time the output file was slightly larger than when using FF3DFilter. So, it alters the way x264.exe decides what to keep, and sometimes it gives a small output, sometimes a larger output, depending on the source.

The biggest difference I'm seeing between FF3DFilter and KNLMeans is that with this, the image almost appears 3D. Even with a very low quality source, the shapes somehow take a 3D life. Whereas the source itself is just flat; and with any blurring denoiser it still lo9oks flat.
I only changed the way it calculates the distance between two colors in a RGB color space. With YUV color space it is equal to the previous version.
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Old 15th July 2015, 19:25   #214  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Khanattila View Post
I only changed the way it calculates the distance between two colors in a RGB color space. With YUV color space it is equal to the previous version.
I wasn't comparing with your previous release, but with the other algorithm I was using before Great job. Definite improvement in my script.

And because this gets run first, all other operations afterwards start from better quality source and the difference gets amplified with NNEDI3 frame quadrupling. Another difference is that FF3DFilter needs sharpening afterwards, while this doesn't lose the sharpening to begin with.

Last edited by MysteryX; 15th July 2015 at 19:27.
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Old 17th July 2015, 18:12   #215  |  Link
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I read the release notes of NVIDIA CUDA Toolkit v7.5 and OpenCL 1.2 is still missing. Really embarrassing.
I'll have to use the AMD APP SDK v2.9.1.
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Old 17th July 2015, 18:26   #216  |  Link
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I read the release notes of NVIDIA CUDA Toolkit v7.5 and OpenCL 1.2 is still missing.
Not sure if we're talking about the same thing but OpenCL 1.2 has been supported by NVIDIA for a few months now (since driver version 350.xx I think). See also here

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Old 17th July 2015, 19:51   #217  |  Link
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Not sure if we're talking about the same thing but OpenCL 1.2 has been supported by NVIDIA for a few months now (since driver version 350.xx I think). See also here
I'm talking about OpenCL headers and library.
To write a OpenCL program, a SDK in required, like CUDA Toolkit (Nvidia), APP SDK (AMD), INDE (Intel).

For execute a OpenCL program is only required a device drivers.
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Old 17th July 2015, 21:03   #218  |  Link
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I'm talking about OpenCL headers and library.
I see. Odd though that they have not provided a 1.2 SDK yet.
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Old 18th July 2015, 03:14   #219  |  Link
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I read the release notes of NVIDIA CUDA Toolkit v7.5 and OpenCL 1.2 is still missing. Really embarrassing.
I'll have to use the AMD APP SDK v2.9.1.
The OpenCL headers should be identical between APP, nVidia, and the official Khronos downloads anyway. nVidia's samples all use the official ones.
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Old 18th July 2015, 08:46   #220  |  Link
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The OpenCL headers should be identical between APP, nVidia, and the official Khronos downloads anyway. nVidia's samples all use the official ones.
Yes sure. Nvidia software is more... practical, like https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-...studio-edition
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