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Old 23rd April 2018, 07:18   #50381  |  Link
toniash
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Bug

I get a purple image with last version
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Old 23rd April 2018, 07:49   #50382  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I found a bug. If you enable "restore details in compressed highlights" under hdr, the image becomes corrupted and turns purple.

This is with SDR content, not HDR, so this option shouldn't do anything. Tested with Nvidia and Intel drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toniash View Post
I get a purple image with last version
I can reproduce this too. It happen if I have "restore details in compressed highlights" enabled on the "hdr -> convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math" page even if I have the hdr setting on "passthrough HDR content to the display" but not if I have it on "let madVR decide" (this is while watching SDR or HDR content). It looks like a cool debug mode to me.

Interestingly it also doesn't happen if I am actually watching HDR using "convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math".
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Last edited by Asmodian; 23rd April 2018 at 07:55.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 09:56   #50383  |  Link
toniash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I can reproduce this too. It happen if I have "restore details in compressed highlights" enabled on the "hdr -> convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math" page even if I have the hdr setting on "passthrough HDR content to the display" but not if I have it on "let madVR decide" (this is while watching SDR or HDR content). It looks like a cool debug mode to me.
Thanks!
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Old 23rd April 2018, 11:15   #50384  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
That option used to change the NGU level to match the RCA level or the RCA level to match the NGU level (whichever was higher), not allow you to run RCA for free at a different quality level.
OK fair enough, I guess I'll never check this box ever again and try my luck enabling low RCA for NGU Medium 720p30@1080p60 as the "free" checkbox only worked up to 720p25 huh.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 15:10   #50385  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
I used to have the "activate only if free" RCA checkbox enabled so it would keep 1080p untouched and allow me to combo medium RCA + "very high" NGU, but this isn't an option anymore apparently? This new change has made the checkbox useless for me, I don't see why you won't allow us to change the RCA level if it's free-ish
I don't really understand what you're saying, but my impression is that you either misunderstood how it worked before, or how it works now, or both... Why don't you give it a try and observe if anything doesn't behave the way you would want it to. If that's the case, report it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
1) I understand the concept about fix too bright & saturated pixels with regards to illegal RGB values but less about gamut mapping. Do all pixels falling within the gamut (those above 0 to 100 nits) require hue and saturation adjustments after tone mapping, or does this only apply to mapping BT.2020 to BT.709?
It's really complicated. In theory a near black pixel could produce negative RGB values. Such a pixel would require some hue and saturation adjustment, too. Pixels above 100nits or even 1000nits may or may not fit into the gamut, depending on hue. On the other hand, even pixels below 100nits can already be out of gamut (after tone mapping). A lot depends on which hue and saturation each pixel has.

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2) What happened to diffuse white?
It was only available in the test builds. I've removed it because it didn't really bring anything useful to the table. E.g. if you had peak=100 and diffuseWhite=20, you can achieve the exact same output by using peak=500 now. Basically diffuseWhite just scaled the peak number, nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
3) Does BT.2390 clip anything, or does it preserve all highlights?
If madVR knows the correct video peak (no matter how), BT.2390 doesn't clip anything. But if madVR believes the video peak to be lower than it actually is, then there will be some clipping.

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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
4) Does the strength setting do anything with the free variant of RCA?
When using the free "NGU+RCA fusion" variant, the RCA strength setting is still in full effect. But you can't choose the RCA quality, anymore, because the quality is now defined by the NGU quality. Obviously this only applies if you told madVR that you want to use RCA only if it comes for free. Otherwise both RCA strength and quality settings will be fully honored in any case.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 15:10   #50386  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.92.14 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: activated HDR option "restore details in compressed highlights" broke SDR playback
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Old 23rd April 2018, 17:16   #50387  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.92.14 released
Thank you
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Old 23rd April 2018, 18:12   #50388  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I don't really understand what you're saying, but my impression is that you either misunderstood how it worked before, or how it works now, or both... Why don't you give it a try and observe if anything doesn't behave the way you would want it to. If that's the case, report it here.
True
All I know is that it used to be free-ish but now appears truly free and I can finally use RCA+NGU Medium on 720p30@1080p so that's perfect
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Old 23rd April 2018, 18:41   #50389  |  Link
theDongerr
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It was only available in the test builds. I've removed it because it didn't really bring anything useful to the table. E.g. if you had peak=100 and diffuseWhite=20, you can achieve the exact same output by using peak=500 now. Basically diffuseWhite just scaled the peak number, nothing else.
So moving forward from the old method peak=100 divided by diffuseWhite=20 is 5. The 5 is your multiplier on a base of 100nits and that's how you get 500.

So if I was doing peak=100 diffuseWhite=40 before, my new peak=250?


Thanks for all you do madshi.

Cheers,

-donger
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Old 24th April 2018, 01:55   #50390  |  Link
MrDVader
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Target peak nits

What should I enter for "Target peak nits" when converting HDR to SDR?

I have a JVC DLA-RS400, 126" screen, 170 lamp hours, dark room.

According to webprojectorcalculator.com I have:

79 nits in low lamp mode
106 nits in high lamp mode

I'm using the latest madvr version.

Edit:
Also, my projector has not been calibrated (except basic gray scale by eye) but is set to BT.2020 color space. Nevertheless, should I set madvr to calibrated to BT.2020, or DCI-P3, and power curve 2.40?

I tried DCI-P3 but the colours went too red, BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites. I have manual iris fully open and auto iris on 2 (which apparently is more graduated that the other more contrasty setting)

Last edited by MrDVader; 24th April 2018 at 02:08.
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Old 24th April 2018, 09:57   #50391  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDVader View Post
BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites.
BT.2020 with a peak nits of 100 it is then.

Seriously though, HDR processing is not very uniform right now so we would need experiance with your projector and a meter to be sure. That said, the HDR output should probably be set to BT.2020 as you found. Almost everything HDR is encoded in the very wide BT.2020 color space so I think most displays do better mapping when receiving BT.2020. Gamma is very much user preference and madVR's settings only have an effect when using madVR to change the gamma.
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Old 24th April 2018, 12:47   #50392  |  Link
suanm
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I wonder whether Mr. madshi has a plan to integrate the Open GL renderer with madvr .When I play 4K HDR movies in Open GL rendering mode,i can get better image quality in open gl mode than i do in D3D11 rendering mode of Madvr.Better color images at least.I look up the parameters in the format in Open GL mode of potplayer.
The orders is :NV12(INPUT)-->RGBA(video)-->XRGB(backbuffer-->display).Due to RGBA(video) conversion,my TV set displays lifelike color images.Unfortunately,there is no 60fps feature to be available as the Open GL rendering mode of potplayer runs. So i hope Mr. madshi integrate the Open GL renderer in madvr . Thanks in advance,Mr.madshi
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Old 24th April 2018, 15:56   #50393  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDVader View Post
What should I enter for "Target peak nits" when converting HDR to SDR?

I have a JVC DLA-RS400, 126" screen, 170 lamp hours, dark room.

According to webprojectorcalculator.com I have:

79 nits in low lamp mode
106 nits in high lamp mode

I'm using the latest madvr version.

Edit:
Also, my projector has not been calibrated (except basic gray scale by eye) but is set to BT.2020 color space. Nevertheless, should I set madvr to calibrated to BT.2020, or DCI-P3, and power curve 2.40?

I tried DCI-P3 but the colours went too red, BT.2020 with 2.40 appears to look very good, as does my current peak nits of 100 - if I up the peak nits, it just appears to produce increasing black crush AND somewhat over exposed whites. I have manual iris fully open and auto iris on 2 (which apparently is more graduated that the other more contrasty setting)
Target nits is completely up to preference and experimentation. Increasing the peak nits value has a similar effect to increasing the gamma; the image gets progressively darker. This is because the tone mapping is more gradual in the transition from dark to light. The result is more contrast and dynamic range. So you should aim for the highest peak nits value you can use without crushing black. This will produce more highlights and a greater HDR effect. A properly calibrated HDR display should be a little darker than SDR without crushing shadow detail.
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Old 24th April 2018, 15:58   #50394  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suanm View Post
I wonder whether Mr. madshi has a plan to integrate the Open GL renderer with madvr .When I play 4K HDR movies in Open GL rendering mode,i can get better image quality in open gl mode than i do in D3D11 rendering mode of Madvr.Better color images at least.I look up the parameters in the format in Open GL mode of potplayer.
The orders is :NV12(INPUT)-->RGBA(video)-->XRGB(backbuffer-->display).Due to RGBA(video) conversion,my TV set displays lifelike color images.Unfortunately,there is no 60fps feature to be available as the Open GL rendering mode of potplayer runs. So i hope Mr. madshi integrate the Open GL renderer in madvr . Thanks in advance,Mr.madshi
I believe Kodi uses OpenGL. I don't see how this is an advantage. Kodi converts any 10-bit input to 8-bit sRGB before outputting to the target gamut. So this is a lossy process. I notice the colors in Kodi are slightly different but not more lifelike. They look wrong and probably are wrong.
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Old 24th April 2018, 16:11   #50395  |  Link
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OpenGL or D3D do not have an impact on the image quality - it all depends on the algorithms you use to process the image. I'm not madshi, but I think I can safely state that madVR will never use OpenGL.
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Old 24th April 2018, 17:18   #50396  |  Link
suanm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I believe Kodi uses OpenGL. I don't see how this is an advantage. Kodi converts any 10-bit input to 8-bit sRGB before outputting to the target gamut. So this is a lossy process. I notice the colors in Kodi are slightly different but not more lifelike. They look wrong and probably are wrong.
There is no conversion of HDR to SDR in KODI.So i have to abandon KODI.My video&audio decoders are LAV.The output format is NV12 after decoding,i use OpenGL as renderer in potplayer instead of D3D11 or madvr.By D3D11 or madvr i feel the color of images doesn't look lifelike or natural on my tv set.for example,i do not distinguish their skin color between orientals and westerners by D3D11 or Madvr.it's so to easy to distinguish their differences by OpenGL renderer,though.This is why i prefer OpenGL render.
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Old 24th April 2018, 17:42   #50397  |  Link
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Something is wrong then. I have an i1 Pro 2 and i1 Display Pro which I regularly use to measure the color generated by madVR. madVR is very accurate and able to perfectly display any in gamut color. I have never used PotPlayer but it seems obvious that it is doing some saturation enhancement or something.

As nevairiel said, any differences are due to processing, not the API used to get the video into the GPU.
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Old 24th April 2018, 18:04   #50398  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
OpenGL or D3D do not have an impact on the image quality - it all depends on the algorithms you use to process the image. I'm not madshi, but I think I can safely state that madVR will never use OpenGL.
I am fairly certain OpenGL is limited to 8-bit processing. At least, it is on Linux. Kodi has been waiting for updates to support 10-bit passthrough. The rest of the processing likely comes down to the algorithms chosen. The poster noted the input is also converted to sRGB, like Kodi, so maybe this is also standard or the preferred method of rendering in OpenGL.
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Old 24th April 2018, 20:44   #50399  |  Link
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openGL is not limited to 8 bit processing it's 32 bit: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Image_Format

but as always these open standarts are to open same counts for vulkan:

Quote:
The OpenGL specification is fairly lenient about what image formats OpenGL implementations provide. It allows implementations to fall-back to other formats transparently, even when doing so would degrade the visual quality of the image due to being at a lower bitdepth.
and it doesn't matter both output RGB and the RGB values in madVR are correct. if you want more "color" think about the vivid mode on your end device.
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Old 24th April 2018, 21:44   #50400  |  Link
Warner306
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Ok, so I don't know what technological limitations are limiting rendering in Kodi.

I have nothing against Kodi. I just think its video rendering needs to be updated to keep up with the times. I thought OpenGL standards were to blame.
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