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Old 1st March 2018, 20:35   #49381  |  Link
kolak
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Thank you.
Yes, I'm mainly interested in Pass Through mode. So if file has some meaningful metadata then it's passed. If metadata is missing or "bad" then it's replaced with some default one (do we know what it's?).
In the same time there is no way to specify "custom" metadata which would overwrite original one in the file.

Yes, there are tools for this, like HDFury box or AJA converter:




Do you know if HDR TVs really use this metadata?
All sample files made for TV manufactures seems to have them.
In the same time when you play file inside TV (through its own player) mastering info seems to be fully ignored, at least on Samsung KS8000. I don't know if this is different in case of signal coming over HDMI.

Do you also know if Pass Through mode is 100% "lossless" except format conversion (e.g. YUV420 10bit to YUV422 10bit). I'm interested in mode which will guarantee me that signal is really passed without any unnecessary "touches". I would also rather prefer to stay in YUV and let TV convert this internally.

Last edited by kolak; 1st March 2018 at 21:20.
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Old 1st March 2018, 20:49   #49382  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolak View Post
Do you also know if Pass Through mode is 100% "lossless" except format conversion (e.g. YUV420 10bit to YUV422 10bit). I'm interested in mode which will guarantee me that signal is really passed without any unnecessary "touch". I would also rather prefer to stay in YUV and let TV convert this internally.
PCs cannot stay in YUV. Its always RGB at some point. Basically you always have to feed RGB to the GPU, even if the GPU then outputs YUV again (which should therefor be avoided, if possible).
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Old 1st March 2018, 21:19   #49383  |  Link
kolak
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Hmmm... this is interesting and bit "crap", specially when many modes for HDMI are only possible as YUV.
I assume RGB<->YUV conversions are accurate.

I'm sure I've read that LAV passes all HDR metadata from x265 encoded and flagged streams, so we should have precise path (except those YUV<->RGB conversions).

Last edited by kolak; 1st March 2018 at 21:29.
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Old 1st March 2018, 21:25   #49384  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolak View Post
Thank you.
Yes, I'm mainly interested in Pass Through mode. So if file has some meaningful metadata then it's passed. If metadata is missing or "bad" then it's replaced with some default one (do we know what it's?).
In the same time there is no way to specify "custom" metadata which would overwrite original one in the file.

Yes, there are tools for this, like HDFury box or AJA converter:

Do you know if HDR TVs really use this metadata?
All sample files made for TV manufactures seems to have them.
In the same time when you play file inside TV (through its own player) mastering info seems to be fully ignored, at least on Samsung KS8000. I don't know if this is different in case of signal coming over HDMI.

Do you also know if Pass Through mode is 100% "lossless" except format conversion (e.g. YUV420 10bit to YUV422 10bit). I'm interested in mode which will guarantee me that signal is really passed without any unnecessary "touches". I would also rather prefer to stay in YUV and let TV convert this internally.
Passthrough is fine, you get everything as far as I can see, including the bad/invalid/missing metadata. It's up to you to deal with it if your display doesn't. I use a Vertex and custom gamma curves with an algorithm I've designed and asked HDFury to implement for JVC projectors using RS-232 control, until MadVR's HDR to SDR conversion works better with projectors. It alrewady works fine with many displays.

The way displays handle HDR metadata is fairly OT so I'd rather not engage in this discussion here.
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Last edited by Manni; 1st March 2018 at 21:56.
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Old 1st March 2018, 21:32   #49385  |  Link
kolak
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Useful info.
Have you done some more advanced measurements and can confirm that madVR preview is 100% accurate for HDR?
(for me this would be capturing HDMI signal as v210 or at least ProRes etc. and then comparing it to original file which was used for playback).
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Old 1st March 2018, 22:01   #49386  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by kolak View Post
Useful info.
Have you done some more advanced measurements and can confirm that madVR preview is 100% accurate for HDR?
(for me this would be capturing HDMI signal as v210 or at least ProRes etc. and then comparing it to original file which was used for playback).
100% accurate for HDR doesn't mean anything, there is no standard for HDR reproduction on the consumer side. Each manufacturer does some kind of tonemapping and each display does it differently. Outside of Dolby Vision, which has its own issues, it's still the wild west and we still can't calibrate to a standard, so "bit perfect" is kind of irrelevant in my opinion.

What I can tell you is that MadVR in passthrough mode gives me as good as my UB900. That's good enough for me.

If you want to perform further tests, why don't you do so and report back for those who might be interested? I'm not but others might be.
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Old 1st March 2018, 22:06   #49387  |  Link
kolak
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By accurate I mean if data which I play is passed over HDMI to TV untouched for Pass Through mode (goes through proper and accurate YUY<=>RGB conversion, etc). How it looks and is processed on specific TV is a different matter.
I want to make sure that correct signal hits TV, like I have in case of pro SDI/HDMI card.
I assume this is the case, which is great.

I hope we will get custom HDR metadata injection soon, which can be sometimes useful.
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Old 1st March 2018, 22:12   #49388  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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I assume RGB<->YUV conversions are accurate.
If the format is some variant of YUV444 the quality loss won't be very big, but there might still be rounding errors from the roundtrip conversion.
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Old 1st March 2018, 22:36   #49389  |  Link
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Those small possible rounding errors are "fine".
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:31   #49390  |  Link
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Dear Friends

I would like to ask, if I can use madVR without dedicated GPU such as GTX 1070 etc., only with CPU with integrated GPU like Intel 630? What is the best choice of CPU to use with madVR to UHD (HEVC), to have rendering lower then 41,71ms for 3840x2160 @ 23.976 (no dropped, repeated, delayed frames)?

Thank you in advance.

Sincerely
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:15   #49391  |  Link
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Perhaps the i5-8400 or better (the 192 core UHD 630)? Get 3200 MHz memory too. 4K HDR->SDR with madVR is hard with the memory bandwidth available on iGPUs.

The Ryzen 5 2400G might also be a good option but I haven't heard many reports about it yet. It is also important to give it 3200 MHz ram. NGU likely being slow on Vega isn't a problem because you aren't running NGU on a iGPU anyway.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:51   #49392  |  Link
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ASIO4ALL is not the only "virtual" ASIO driver available. There is also FlexASIO, ASIO2WASAPI and ASIO2KS. You might have better luck with those. Especially the first one, since, well, I wrote it
Couldn't try yours (Flexasio) as I couldn't find a compiled version with installer, but I tried Asio2wasapi and it also doesn't work with the latest nVidia drivers.

So at least here, Asio4all and Asio2wasapi don't work with 39x.xx on Windows 10 Pro x64 1709 16299.248, and it's not only with REW, jRiver doesn't see the nVidia HDMI out either.

So this points to either nVidia or MS. As I don't know which build of Windows 10 Necairiel is using, I have no idea which of these two is at fault, but it's neither the Asio driver nor the application itself.

Anyone with relevant info on this please PM me so as not to clutter the thread.
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Last edited by Manni; 2nd March 2018 at 12:10.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 12:36   #49393  |  Link
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Couldn't try yours (Flexasio) as I couldn't find a compiled version with installer
It's on the releases page. Make sure that the sample rate for your playback device and recording device are the same (as configured in your Windows sound settings).
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Old 2nd March 2018, 14:37   #49394  |  Link
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It's on the releases page. Make sure that the sample rate for your playback device and recording device are the same (as configured in your Windows sound settings).
Thanks, happy to report that FlexAsio is working fine with 391.01

Yes I'm always set to 48Khz for both playback and recording.

FlexAsio has the advantage of labeling the channels, while Asio4all only provides numbers.

The only (minor) downside is the absence of control panel. Do you plan to implement this at some point?

Otherwise I haven't done any in depth testing but there doesn't seem to be any performance downside.

Well done and thanks for your help
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Old 2nd March 2018, 18:10   #49395  |  Link
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The only (minor) downside is the absence of control panel. Do you plan to implement this at some point?
Nah. I just don't have the time nor the motivation I'm afraid. I only wrote FlexASIO for a specific use case I have with REW.

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Otherwise I haven't done any in depth testing but there doesn't seem to be any performance downside.
Just keep in mind that FlexASIO is using your audio device in "shared" mode, not exclusive mode (contrary to what all the other virtual ASIO drivers do). That means you're going through the whole windows audio pipeline (mixing etc.), not going directly to the sound card. Depending on what you're trying to achieve, this might matter, or it might not. (It probably doesn't.)

Last edited by e-t172; 2nd March 2018 at 18:13.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 23:18   #49396  |  Link
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hello, I can not watch videos in 4k anymore, drop a lot of frames ._. my pc: P8H77-M LE + I5 3450 + 1050ti 4gb + 8gb ram
two days ago I changed the motherboard, before I had a B75 Pro3-M and I also updated the nvidia drivers
certainly one of these two things is the cause of this problem, I vote for drivers, I do not see how the motherboard can affect gpu performance
I do not remember which drivers I had before updating to version 391.01, now I switched to 390.77 and it goes slightly better, but always ... sh**.

I have no performance problems in games, only with madvr.
can you suggest an ideal driver version for madvr? I do not really remember which one I had before updating .-.

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Old 2nd March 2018, 23:24   #49397  |  Link
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I am using 391.01 with good success. Did you change "Power management mode" to something other than "Optimal power"?
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Old 2nd March 2018, 23:27   #49398  |  Link
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it's the first thing I've tried .-.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 23:48   #49399  |  Link
Asmodian
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Sorry, I should have looked at your screenshot.

Your decoding is too slow, is LAV Video set to use hardware acceleration? 4K HEVC is very hard for software decoding.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 00:03   #49400  |  Link
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yes, has always worked without problems in 4k, until today
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