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Old 11th December 2016, 10:24   #41381  |  Link
HillieSan
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Guys I wonder if someone can offer some help please...
I have thee 1080 card and the JVC X9000 projector. Ive always had horrible banding and none of the banding settings on madvr make any difference at all for me.
Im still only using 1080p for all my ripped BDs and NEEDI3, haven't tested NGU yet.
As I play everything at 60Hz RGB 8bit to avoid the horrible slow sync of the JVC for mixed content, is it possible that 60Hz introduces the banding?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have a X5000 and it works fine here.
Important: Turn off the dynamic contrast in de nvidia drivers. This causes banding! Use PC 0-255 full color space in driver setting.
Set rgb 4:2:2 (not 4:4:4) in driver. Leave X5000 on auto color space.
I leave most options in the X5000 as default except for blur reduction setting which I have turned off. They introduce artifacts. I play everything at 60 Hz. Even 24hz movies. This works best.

I hope this helps.
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:28   #41382  |  Link
burfadel
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You LAVFilters is a really old version! 0.68.1-53 is the latest interim build (from 10/12/2016). Also your MPC-HC is out of date (1.7.10.269 is the latest). In LAVFilters you can select to output as whatever you like. If the input was RGB, you can force output in YV12, RGB32 or whatever else and see if that helps. If you go MPC-HC BE, do note that it has a different numbering system, such that 1.5.0 is the latest and is 'newer' than the MPC-HC build.

Are you using MPC-HC 32-bit or 64-bit?
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:35   #41383  |  Link
nomakewan
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Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
You LAVFilters is a really old version! 0.68.1-53 is the latest interim build (from 10/12/2016). Also your MPC-HC is out of date (1.7.10.269 is the latest). In LAVFilters you can select to output as whatever you like. If the input was RGB, you can force output in YV12, RGB32 or whatever else and see if that helps. If you go MPC-HC BE, do note that it has a different numbering system, such that 1.5.0 is the latest and is 'newer' than the MPC-HC build.

Are you using MPC-HC 32-bit or 64-bit?
32-bit. Also do note that, despite everything you said, I can leave all of those things the same, then switch the renderer to EVR Custom (or, really, anything that isn't madVR) and there are no issues with the video color. Only when I'm using madVR is this an issue.

Also, I -did- try changing the output settings in LAV, but that did not affect the horrible magenta color output by madVR. For the sake of argument, however, I'll go ahead and update my MPC-HC and LAV. I highly doubt it will change anything, but better safe than sorry, right?

EDIT: Am now on MPC-HC 1.7.10x86 and LAVFilters 0.68.1 Stable. No change, as expected.

Last edited by nomakewan; 11th December 2016 at 10:44. Reason: Added information
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:57   #41384  |  Link
HillieSan
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Originally Posted by nomakewan View Post
32-bit. Also do note that, despite everything you said, I can leave all of those things the same, then switch the renderer to EVR Custom (or, really, anything that isn't madVR) and there are no issues with the video color. Only when I'm using madVR is this an issue.

Also, I -did- try changing the output settings in LAV, but that did not affect the horrible magenta color output by madVR. For the sake of argument, however, I'll go ahead and update my MPC-HC and LAV. I highly doubt it will change anything, but better safe than sorry, right?

EDIT: Am now on MPC-HC 1.7.10x86 and LAVFilters 0.68.1 Stable. No change, as expected.
I remember that I had magenta ouput once. It was caused by a setting in de device section of your monitor/tv/projector in madvr. The rgb/ycbcr must match the device.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:05   #41385  |  Link
nomakewan
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I remember that I had magenta ouput once. It was caused by a setting in de device section of your monitor/tv/projector in madvr. The rgb/ycbcr must match the device.
My settings are correct (E248WFP; PC levels, 8-bit, no 3D, no calibration, passthrough HDR) for my monitor and had never been an issue until I ran into this odd files that had RGB color space. Every single other file I have ever played plays through perfectly fine. So it's not exactly killing me--I can just play these few files in VLC if I have to--but I figured it was worth reporting since it appears to be a legitimate bug in how madVR is handling them.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:30   #41386  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nomakewan View Post
My settings are correct (E248WFP; PC levels, 8-bit, no 3D, no calibration, passthrough HDR) for my monitor and had never been an issue until I ran into this odd files that had RGB color space.
Instead of "no calibration", its usually advised to set it to "this display is already calibrated" and set the screens properties below that selection appropriately. Only this way madVR can know how your screen behaves and properly show any and all content - which might as well fix your video.
With "no calibration" all videos are passed to the screen without changes, which would result in wrong output on anything that doesn't natively match your screen.

Otherwise, madshi will likely need a sample video.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 11th December 2016 at 11:33.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:37   #41387  |  Link
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Guys,

Did somebody posted a test image for Nedi3 64 neuron vs NGU all variants?

I don't know if it was just my eyes. Nedi3 64 produces cleaner and more natural video. It manages noise very well as depicted in video such as TWD. TWD is very grainy and Nedi3 doesn't sharpen this. Can anybody concur? The only downside is that it hugs too much resources but if you have something to spare then this algo seems to be the best
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:49   #41388  |  Link
Knight77
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Originally Posted by Mistery 73 View Post
a greeting to all, activate 200% super sampling you think it is helpful when upscaling to 1080p to 4K? what do you advise me to use as an algorithm after doubling when upscaling to 4K 1080p and use as a quality algorithm NGU very high to me like a very defined image sharp
I'm a bit confused about this...should I use it when upscaling 1080p to 4K or is better to be used when you watch things at native screen resolution, like 4K video on 4K TV ?

And how much rise up the quality of the image?
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Old 11th December 2016, 12:36   #41389  |  Link
mueslibrown
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Please guys, we need to calm down. The aggressiveness has been increasing in the last few days. We do not know the other economical situation, I think we all have the right to share our opinion and that we can do it without being rude and avoiding offensive comments. We are all trying to do madVR better day after day, we spent hours doing comparisons and helping madshi in every way we could. So I think everyone deserves a chance to say something and doing it in the right way is the way to do it.
Well said ...
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Old 11th December 2016, 13:03   #41390  |  Link
nomakewan
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Instead of "no calibration", its usually advised to set it to "this display is already calibrated" and set the screens properties below that selection appropriately. Only this way madVR can know how your screen behaves and properly show any and all content - which might as well fix your video.
With "no calibration" all videos are passed to the screen without changes, which would result in wrong output on anything that doesn't natively match your screen.

Otherwise, madshi will likely need a sample video.
I had already tried changing this setting just for kicks, but changing it to "this display is already calibrated" and then going through all the possible combinations of calibrations (none of which my monitor has--because it's not calibrated) merely either makes the problem worse by making the magenta a little closer to 'neon' vividness or merely makes the magenta a little softer. The actual fact that magenta is outputted where black should be does not change. As before, this setting has never caused me any issues in all the years I've been using madVR, nor with any of the probably hundreds of thousands of video files I've thrown into my player over those years. I just happened to stumble upon a few clips with RGB color space that threw it for a loop, that's all.

I have samples I can provide if truly necessary, that is, if the mediainfo output alone is not sufficient to pinpoint the issue at play. As this is my first time posting on Doom9 (I had an account years ago but it's apparently been pruned), what method is generally accepted for submitting samples nowadays?
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Old 11th December 2016, 13:49   #41391  |  Link
Werewolfy
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I just tested NGU on 720p anime and I still prefer NNEDI3, it hides aliasing better.
About the new UI I'm quite happy with it, I don't have the impression to be limited in my choices so if it's easier to understand for the newcomers, I'm fine with it.

And thanks to ryrynz, Asmodian and Neo-XP I can clearly see now that chroma has an impact on real life contents. I wasn't aware of that, I used Jinc most of the time without thinking that there was a real better option. So thank you guys!
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Old 11th December 2016, 14:02   #41392  |  Link
Neo-XP
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I have just noticed a weird behavior with the dark halos removal :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193397

The processed lines are not straight anymore as it creates artifacts all around them. It is very distracting, even more in motion.

Is there room for improvement there @madshi ? Maybe a less aggressive version ?

There are some artifacts too with just the ringing removal, but they are less noticeable :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193398
In addition, a comparison between madVr's dark halos removal VS FineDehalo (http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FineDehalo) :

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193421

madVR is better at preserving details while FineDehalo is better at cleaning the edges without artifacts.

Maybe you can get the best of both worlds @madshi ?

Last edited by Neo-XP; 11th December 2016 at 14:50.
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Old 11th December 2016, 14:14   #41393  |  Link
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Not really better it blurs it again way to much though their is no perfect way todo it for fixed content you can predict it might work but you never will get without trained AI or at least some metric analysis the results you want and the AI has to analyse even each specific scene and make a guess how the output might look good for your output target.

Also we are still fixating to much to spatial results only wee need to get more actual moving results

Some input surely could be very well predicted Blu-Ray for example and based on this wee could buildup relative low complexity chains which wouldn't kill your resources in 1 second for no reasonable balanced result overall.

But we really need a more convenient way (apart from the MadVR icon in the Systray) to edit and to chose those presets with 1 or 2 clicks and or Keyboard shortcuts cycling through them this will be also most important for making it easier for AVG joes overall.

But this needs overall tighter integration into a player interface and im not sure if Madshi wants this to happen overall but usability wise the Systray idea seems sub optimal for preseting stuff having the windows taskbar all the time open is not really content centric nice todo.

Defining some kind of input quality strategy to work with as a base for the Presets seems to be a good start, Blu-Ray (offline)/ Youtube/Netflix/Vudu/Amazon (online) are very interesting targets because they have some predictability you could buildup on content wise
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Last edited by CruNcher; 11th December 2016 at 14:53.
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Old 11th December 2016, 14:24   #41394  |  Link
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Not really better it adds blur again way to much
Neither is the best.
The good thing is that you can change a lot of variables with FineDehalo, so if you don't like some aspects if it, you can fine-tune it as you wish.
It is under WTFPL licence, so no problem for madshi to use the code
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Old 11th December 2016, 15:07   #41395  |  Link
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I absolutely agree and indeed it has some nice properties in your overall spatial result overall the result could in motion be better indeed you would surely do some nice presets but i wouldn't even say it's better dehaloing in that specific case of yours much better aliasing prevention on edges and overall it doesn't hurt the end result so much after all

But now is the question can't you get a similiar result without it and a different MadVR chaining and maybe then with less overhead at all ?

Ringing seems not really the problem here then Aliasing also the question is does it holdup in motion as well with your 4K target ?
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Last edited by CruNcher; 11th December 2016 at 15:24.
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Old 11th December 2016, 16:55   #41396  |  Link
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But now is the question can't you get a similiar result without it and a different MadVR chaining and maybe then with less overhead at all ?
No, because the ringing and dark halos are unfortunately already in the source, before any processing.

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Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
Ringing seems not really the problem here then Aliasing also the question is does it holdup in motion as well with your 4K target ?
Yes ! And I've made some comparisons (with original included ) in 4K (Original / madVR / FineDehalo) :



And lossless in FHD with 100% zoom :



I used those parameters for FineDehalo (probably not the best, I was just testing) : FineDehalo(thmi=128, thma=128, thlimi=50, thlima=50, contra=1.0).
I disabled the "add grain" enhancement of madVR for the test, to compare them more easily without added randomness.

Clearly, my vote goes to FineDehalo, in still and in motion.

Last edited by Neo-XP; 11th December 2016 at 17:13.
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Old 11th December 2016, 17:27   #41397  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Guys I wonder if someone can offer some help please...
I have thee 1080 card and the JVC X9000 projector. Ive always had horrible banding and none of the banding settings on madvr make any difference at all for me.
Im still only using 1080p for all my ripped BDs and NEEDI3, haven't tested NGU yet.
As I play everything at 60Hz RGB 8bit to avoid the horrible slow sync of the JVC for mixed content, is it possible that 60Hz introduces the banding?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The refresh rate wouldn't introduce any banding. That is the fault of the mastering process of the Blu-ray.

Are you outputting correct RGB levels? Your PC should be set to RGB Full and so should your projector.

Last edited by Warner306; 11th December 2016 at 17:32.
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Old 11th December 2016, 18:09   #41398  |  Link
plasma
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I liked to use upscaling refinement such as adaptive sharpen and line thinning but now as I upgraded to a 4k tv it uses way too much performance. Using "image enhancements" does not give similar results, albeit much better perf.

I assume that upscaling refinements uses the upscaled 4k images and then applies to refinements while image refinements does it at the source resolution, whatever it is. Is there any way to apply these refinements at a half upscaled image (aka 1080p) so you get better balance in terms of performance penalty.
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Old 11th December 2016, 18:32   #41399  |  Link
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Ever since the new update i'm getting dropped frames on everything I watch.

Using a 980ti and 1440p monitor. 1080p@60fps seems to come off worst. I put all settings even to the lowest settings and still get 40-50ms.

It's unusable for me, and I've an inkling it's something to do with this new combined image upscale feature.

What's strange is despite the ridiculous number of dropped frames in GPU-Z my GPU is using barely 50% of power....
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Old 11th December 2016, 18:40   #41400  |  Link
AntonP
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Hello, which AMD videocard is better for BD playpack on 1080p screen?
R9 Nano or RX480? both overclocked of course
NGU high chroma upscaling + all other cool things on...
AMD was chosen because of no 24p problem (23.971 - nvidia) and rx480 and nano are only short pcb boards (have not much space in htpc case)
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