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Old 20th March 2023, 10:43   #1  |  Link
cooli
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VHS Capture in 2023 (no satisfiyng results)

Hello,

I really want to improve my capture workflow, tried many hours with settings and different software but still not happy with the results.

- HARDWARE WORKFLOW -

[1] JVC HR-DVS1MS (VCR)

[settings]
- O.S.D. [Off]
- B.E.S.T. [Off]
- Image control [Copy]
- Digital 3R [On]
- Digital TBC/NR [On]

[output]
- S-Video cable (video)
- RCA Left and right (audio)

[2] datavideo TBC-1000

[input + output]
- S-Video cable (video)
- RCA Left and right (audio)

[3] Osprey 260e

- CAPTURE -

[1] Virtualdub 2 - capture mode
[Device]
- 1 Osprey-260e Video Device 1 (DirectShow)

[Video source]
- Video SVideo

[Capture pin]
- Video standard: PAL_B
- Frame Rate: 25.000
- Color Space/Compression: YUY2
- Output Size: 768x576 (default)

[Capture filter]
[Device]
- SW Deinterlace capture: disabled
- HW Deinterlace preview: disabled
- Field Order: Odd-Even

[Video compression]
[UtVideo YUV422 BT.601 VCM]
- Frame divide count: 8
- Automatic division: disabled
- Entropy coding: Huffman
- Intra-frame prediction type: Predict Left
- Assume interlace video: enabled
- Pixel format: YUYV

[Audio compression]
- no compression (PCM)

= .avi file ~30GB/hour

20 sec sample
https://www.fvnet.ch/temp/sample.avi

- POST PROCESSING -

[1] Avisynth+ 3.7.2_20220317

[2] QTGMC Easy v2022.12.27

[3] avs script
LoadPlugin("ffms2.dll")
LoadPlugin("masktools2.dll")
LoadPlugin("Rgtools.dll")
LoadPlugin("mvtools2.dll")
LoadPlugin("nnedi3.dll")
#LoadPlugin("yadifmod2.dll")
#LoadPlugin("fft3dfilter.dll")
#LoadPlugin("LoadDLL.dll")
#LoadDLL("libfftw3f-3.dll")
Import("Zs_RF_Shared.avsi")
Import("QTGMC.avsi")
FFMpegSource2("sample.avi",atrack=1)
AssumeTFF()
#ConvertToYV12()
QTGMC(preset="Medium")

[4] Virtualdub2 - Filter - Neat Video 5.5.8
- Auto profile
- Default settings

- COMPRESSION -

[Virtualdub2 - save video]
- type: FFMPEG Mp4
- video compression : X264 8 bit - H264/MPEG-4 AVC codec





- audio compression : FFMpeg AAC (default settings)

= .mp4 file ~1GB/hour

https://www.fvnet.ch/temp/sample.mp4

I think this also needs some levels or color correction, tried with virtualdub2 filters but I don't know how to do it right.

Thanks for taking the time to help me.

Last edited by cooli; 20th March 2023 at 10:46.
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Old 20th March 2023, 18:57   #2  |  Link
lollo2
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There is nothing in https://www.fvnet.ch/temp/sample.mp4
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Old 20th March 2023, 21:22   #3  |  Link
cooli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
Sorry, it was the wrong file... :-(

It's working now.
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Old 20th March 2023, 23:22   #4  |  Link
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I don't have your equipment, but basically:
- The colors of the .avi are oversaturated. Reduce the saturation.
- The denoising is probably unnecessarily strong (plastic look, eventually loosing details).
Maybe switch off the Digital TBC/NR in the VCR, or skip the TBC-1000. One TBC is normally enough.
Also, I don't know what magic the Digital 3R of the VCR does (Comb filter, noise reduction?) . Maybe switch it off as well.

If your main dissatisfaction are the colors though you may want to try the filters '6-axis color correction' or 'Color Mill' in VirtualDub2, or use Avisynth filters, or try with the color tools of an NLE.
As the scenes are taken under artificial light you will most likely have to make adjustments scene by scene.

Last edited by Sharc; 21st March 2023 at 00:11.
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Old 21st March 2023, 00:30   #5  |  Link
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The black level is being clipped somewhere in your workflow and you're losing shadow detail - if you look at a Y wavefrom the output video has straight line indicating clipping, and the black level is elevated ~ Y=26

source+qtgmc
https://postimg.cc/m1kFzxdw

sample.mp4
https://postimg.cc/zV9RBcTC

Your screenshots indicate 4:2:2 for encoding , but for some reason sample.mp4 is 4:2:0. This might indicate other problems somewhere, or some mixup. Double check the screenshots and information posted was actually
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Old 21st March 2023, 09:18   #6  |  Link
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Yes. The captured .avi has luma Y<16 (not clipped however), which got probably clipped/clamped at Y=16 later in the processing chain, and then upshifted by another 10 notches.
So the low levels of the .avi should be corrected in a first step to prevent clipping by the subsequent processing. Also, I would insert ConvertToYV12() after QTGMC (or ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) before QTGMC) in the script and encode as 4:2:0 to prevent that unexplained 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 ambiguity.

Simple script just to re-adjust the levels of the .avi capture and to largely avoid illegal RGB:
Code:
AssumeTFF()
crop(12,4,-0,-12)
levels(0,1.0,235,8,235,coring=false)
tweak(sat=0.9,coring=false)
QTGMC()
addborders(6,8,6,8)
converttoYV12()

Last edited by Sharc; 21st March 2023 at 14:44.
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Old 21st March 2023, 11:18   #7  |  Link
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Some comments also on my side:

- frameTBC is a wonderful device, but should be used only when necessary. Try without it, sometimes is not that transparent with respect to the input signal

- the capture resolution must be 720x576; I never used your card, but is possible that if you capture a 768x576 it does a real-time resizing (to be avoided).
Double check this behaviour

- the BEST option in the JVC should always be on, except rare cases

- when you use edit mode (Image control [Copy]) the Digital 3R should be Off (it is better to have it on when you use non edit mode)

- Digital 3R may introduce halos, evident in your capture; they are probably mainly related to the tape and the camera, but also to this setting

- Here a quick 5 minutes attempt to restoration. The original tape is poor in term of quality. Any serious color correction should be done with a specific tool
(like DaVinci Resolve). I just did a raw change to my taste with ColorMill in VirtualDub. I then added deinterlacing, denosing (try to reduce temporal radius to 1 to leave some grain and reduce plastic look) and sharpening, this last
probably not necessary

- A dehaloing filter is necessary (not present in my script)

Code:
video_org=FFmpegSource2("sample.avi")

	# LevelsLumaOnly
Import(plugins_dir + "LevelsLumaOnly_modGMa.avsi")

### levels and colors correction, necessary because VirtualDub ColorMill works in RGB colorspace
noise_baseclip=video_org.LevelsLumaOnly(0,1.0,255,16,235,dither=true,coring=false)

return(noise_baseclip)

# go to VirtualDub ColorMill
Code:
# coming from VirtualDub ColorMill
video_org=AviSource("sample_step3a.avi")

# cropping 
	crop_left=14	# | rimozione esatta delle bande nere sinistra, sopra, destra e del disturbo sotto	
	crop_top=2	# | 768-(14+2)x576-(2+10)=752x564
	crop_right=2
	crop_bottom=10
video_org_crop=video_org.crop(crop_left,crop_top,-crop_right,-crop_bottom)

### de-interlacing
deinterlaced=video_org_crop.AssumeTFF().QTGMC(preset="slow", matchpreset="slow", matchpreset2="slow", sourcematch=3, tr1=2, tr2=1, NoiseTR=2, sharpness=0.1)

return(deinterlaced)
Code:
video_org=AviSource("sample_step3b.avi")

# cropping 
	crop_left=14	# | rimozione esatta delle bande nere sinistra, sopra, destra e del disturbo sotto	
	crop_top=2	# | 768-(14+2)x576-(2+10)=752x564
	crop_right=2
	crop_bottom=10

### convert to YV16
deinterlaced_yv16=video_org.convertToYV16()

### denoising
denoised_yv16=deinterlaced_yv16.TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=3)

### convert to YUY2
denoised=denoised_yv16.convertToYUY2()

### convert to YV12
denoised_yv12=denoised.convertToYV12()

### sharpening
sharpened_yv12=denoised_yv12.LSFmod(defaults="slow")

### convert to YUY2 with chroma from YUY2 color space
sharpened=sharpened_yv12.convertToYUY2().MergeChroma(denoised)

### add borders
video_restored=sharpened.addborders((crop_left+crop_right)/2,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2,(crop_left+crop_right)/2,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2)

return(video_restored)
- your sample.mp4 suffers of frame rate problems (is not 50fps after deinterlacing) and level problems.

- for your goal no need to use a GUI for encoding, a simple command line is enough:
Code:
ffmpeg.exe -i <input>.avs -c:v libx264 -crf 17 -preset slow -aspect 4:3 -c:a aac -b:a 128k <output>.mp4
- some comparison:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dgT...usp=share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fni...usp=share_link

https://imgsli.com/MTYzNDQx
https://imgsli.com/MTYzNDQy
https://imgsli.com/MTYzNDQ0
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Old 27th December 2023, 13:36   #8  |  Link
tmonster
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I've seen the Osprey cards going for as much as 800 USD on a variety of sites. One guy is selling one on EBay but, in a tale as old as time itself, he doesn't have the cable with it.

Are there any modern, good capture cards nowadays? I've experimented with some signal converters without a lot of success.

One YouTuber recommends the AverMedia CE310B, which looks like a good card, but even that has disappeared.

I am currently using a Dazzle, which has problems, but is at least somewhat reliable. I would much prefer to have a card with some form of geometry stabilisation such as the CE310B seems to have.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by tmonster; 27th December 2023 at 13:40.
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Old 27th December 2023, 14:30   #9  |  Link
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Which VCR do you have? 90% of the quality of an analog capture is in the player (and in the conditions of the tapes).
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Old 27th December 2023, 16:54   #10  |  Link
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A Panasonic NV-J47. I'm getting a relatively good picture off the tapes. The tapes were recorded on camcorders back in 1985. The tapes are in very good quality and were stored in dry conditions for the past 30 years


My main problems is some colour fidelity. This may very well be to do with the age of the tape, the quality of the camcorder or the capture device. I am getting some picture roll on the top of the frame, which according to some YouTube videos on the AverMedia CE310B, the PCI card will eliminate.

I can fix a lot of the colour issues with a white balance adjustment in Blender.

Here are some direct frames of the dazzle grabber.


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Old 27th December 2023, 23:26   #11  |  Link
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You are missing a TBC correction and a Y/C signal (and have oversharping halos in the pictures). In any case, post a sample of the video if you want feedbacks, not images. Maybe a specific DVD-R Recorder in pass-through mode could help.
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Old 20th January 2024, 01:36   #12  |  Link
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lollo2. I took your advice. I managed to score two items. One was a Phillips 878 TV tuner card which seems to have an in-built TBC. It has certainly solved all my frame geometry problems. The only other problem I have is that the colours on the captures are *too* vibrant! It's accentuated all the funky colours in the capture. That and I have had problems with the card being set to 29 FPS rather than 25 for PAL. This has produced a very annoying problem where the card inserts an extra frame at every 5th frame. The problem is visibly noticeable. I've tried various scripts and shortcuts such as the decimate filter to remove the extra frames with little success. I have tried to alter settings in virtualdub (2.0 and Lord Smurf's pre-packaged 1.9) doesn't seem to change the card's capture speed. Strange. I'll continue to look into this. There has to be some way to do this. There are supposedly specific tweaks for the 878 card that Virtualdub isn't able to access. Maybe a change if drivers is needed. I'm running the 878 card on Windows XP SP2 on a P4 with an SSD.

Score 2 was a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD recorder. Sadly the recorder is non-functioning, but I got it for less then 15 quid and the pass-through TBC works a treat. The only problem I have still is that the Dazzle's colours are muted. I think that is a 'feature' of the capture device and nothing is going to improve that apart from (very very possibly) some tweaking of colour levels in post-pro. Apart from that, it's working like a charm, I now have complete audio/video lock and all is well, apart from slightly muted colours. If this is the price of success, then so be it! The Dazzle, with the TBC, is running on an old Lenovo i3 laptop with 8 MB of RAM with Windows 7. I am rather new to this, but it appears that the Dazzle with the external TBC is much more stable in the picture department and is much more tolerant of picture glitches than the in-built TBC of the Phillips card. Thankfully my pal with the tapes has used industrial quality VHS tapes and they have been stored well.

I know I can do much better in the capture department than the Dazzle. It's a capable, but sub-par device. I have a collection of old cards that won't function because of driver, OS issues. That or they were given to me without the proprietary breakout cables. For some reason, I can't get S-video to work. I've tried 2 different VHS players, 3 different SCART-RCA breakout boxes and 3 different S-Video cables. I can't nail down what the problem is. Two of the cards only have s-video connectors. I have a Pinnacle DV 500 Plus package. The card blue-screens every time I try to install it. 3 different versions of Windows XP and two different versions of Windows 2000. Driver issue? dead capacitor on the video board? I don't want to spend any further time on it. The Phillips 878 and the Dazzle actually work and I can get on with the project at hand.

I have been reliably recommended to buy a Canopus ADVC signal converter and a cheap firewire card for my PC. This is good advice, but I have spent near to a hundred and fifty on various gadgets and I don't want to spend an awful lot more on this.

One avenue I did pursue initially on this project was to try out a variety of signal upscalers used in game streaming. Although not initially recommended for VHS video capture, several YouTubers did seem to get success out of it. This was interesting, and it worked, but the colours were all over the place and I could see the interpolation of the scan lines on both devices I tried. Without a TBC at the time, any disturbance of the signal and the chip in the converter would insert some blue screen and a small text message describing the channel. This was not really very good, but was an interesting experiment. Maybe I'll go back, plug this into TBC and see if it's any better. I'll post some video here either way. If people want me to detail this experiment, I can do.

Last edited by tmonster; 20th January 2024 at 01:53. Reason: Forgot some words
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Old 20th January 2024, 19:13   #13  |  Link
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These days I got back to some 200x DV captures of mine with the canopus ADVC-300, judged on a 10bit OLED monitor.
Near-black values came out too blocky for my recent taste,
so I would not further recommend to spend time and money on the Canopus ADVC DV way because of that flaw.
Some Sony and Panasonic DV (and HDV) cams are still able to capture/encode DV better than that.
(These Canopus devices were based on a NEC hardware DV encoder),
and of course because of DV being 4:2:0, chroma spatially and temporally butchered across 2 lines.
(Back in 2001 I still had a larger 100Hz Sony CRT, in 2004 came my first TFT, a Samsung SyncMaster,
so well, with both I hadn't been able to spot anything in near-black there from a monitor standpoint.)

In 202x I moved on to capturing in 10 bit 4:2:2 uncompressed using a Blackmagic Intensity Pro Shuttle
an I would consider this being my best effort as of today.

Here on this forum I got valuable recommendations regarding a Hauppauge dongle being able
to capture uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 and I really can recommend this if spending money is a concern.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=183936
Blackmagic Intensity Pro Shuttle was ~300.-€ Hauppauge back then was ~45€,
the difference of both captures almost negligible,
(well, saturated reds are still retained better with the Intensity Shuttle)
and the Hauppauge being more drop-out resilient than the Intensity Shuttle.
Both can take S-Video and I recommend to use this 4-pin Hosiden input fed from a S-VHS deck.
The S-VHS deck can be a consumer/prosumer device.
I was contempted to, and did shell out serious money for a professional Panasonic S-VHS deck,
and while having all stages of TBC required for broadcast, and independently switchable Y and C filters,
a top-of-the line consumer Panasonic S-VHS deck outperforms the pro-deck detailwise here.
I get a capture with everything, grit & lots of grain & noise, welcome that in QTGMCp, and yield lots of detail afterwards.
Well, if everything starts out lowpass-filtered from the beginning, temporally and spatially,
you will hit a nyquist wall getting details back, won't you ;-}}
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Last edited by Emulgator; 20th January 2024 at 19:40.
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Old 22nd January 2024, 12:21   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmonster View Post
One was a Phillips 878 TV tuner card which seems to have an in-built TBC.
No such cards that I know have TBC. They may better react to unstable signals compared to your other card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmonster View Post
Score 2 was a Panasonic DMR-ES15 DVD recorder
This should allow you to have a stable Y/C Time Base Corrected signal. If your VCR has a Y/C output, use S-Video connections along whole chain. Otherwise let the ES15 do the conversion from composite to Y/C and feed your card with a S-Video connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmonster View Post
I know I can do much better in the capture department than the Dazzle.
It is not one of the recommended cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmonster View Post
I have been reliably recommended to buy a Canopus ADVC signal converter and a cheap firewire card for my PC.
The DV workflow is easier and produces good (not best) results. But the Analog SD signal should be captured as YUV 4:2:2 interlaced 8-bit, especially if you plan further restoration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emulgator View Post
Here on this forum I got valuable recommendations regarding a Hauppauge dongle being able
to capture uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2 and I really can recommend this if spending money is a concern.
Yes. That card really need a Y/C signal input and TBC correction. In this condition is excellent and outperforms the BlackMagic Intensity. One of the last comparison between USB-Live2, Intensity and Canopus here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...looks-the-best
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Old 22nd January 2024, 22:07   #15  |  Link
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Just to chime in here for a moment to describe my capture workflow:

Used Components:
- JVH HR-S7500
- 4.7kOhm Potentiometer with RCA connectors and 2x S-Video to RCA Adapters
- passive Stereo Volume control (Stereo Logarithmic Potentiometer with RCA connectors)
- Panasonic DMR-ES10
- Component Cable
- Backmagic Intensity Shuttle


Description of the Workflow:

Source is a S-VHS Deck from JVC, which *lacks* TBC and DNR. My final choice was the HR-S7500
Reason: Every JVC S-VHS Deck I tested so far did temporal denoising despite EDIT-MODE was ON and 3DNR was OFF. The TBC was rarely helpful because of vertical instabilities. (Horizontal jitter was removed, though)

The S-Video Out of this JVC-Deck then is being splitted into two RCA cables. The Luma-Cable is fed through a 4.7kOhm Potentiometer to attenuate the Luma Signal. Chroma goes straight through without modification.

The luma-attenuated S-Video signal is then sent into an Panasonic ES10 to act as a TBC. The beforementioned Potentiometer is used to prevent the ES10 to crush bright highlights.

The Output from the ES10 then is sent to the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle via Component (YCrCb). This is to avoid a further vertical PAL-Delayline in the process. Thus keeping chroma as intact as possible.
The Audio goes from the VCR through the Stereo-Volume-Control straight into the Intensity Shuttle (Audio does not pass through the ES10). The Delay of the ES10 is later corrected for.
The Stereo-Volume-Control in front of the Intensity-Shuttle is used to prevent it from clipping the Audio, because VHS-VCRs tend to have quite 'hot' audio output levels.

Capturing is done with the following settings with the Blackmagic Media Express Software:
- 720x576 YUV 10bit per channel
- 48kHz 24 bits per channel.

Every tape is being captured at least three times.
This is done to
1) correct for framedrops, frameskips and frameduplicates, which happen very now and then with the ES10, because the VCR and the ES10 are not synced to each other.
2) when all three captures are synced up manually in avisynth, I merge them using the median() filter. This way noise and dropouts which occured during capturing are reduced or completely removed. Its output is saved to a new file. This is the new master file, which I base my restoration/filter attempts on.
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Old 23rd January 2024, 11:27   #16  |  Link
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I remember your workflow scharfis_brain, related to the contraints of your sources.

On my side, I find the NR of the high-end S-VHS JVC excellent; the only drawback is that at scene change, the temporal denoise produces a ghost of the chroma for 1 or 2 frames, which is neglettable; an example here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...re-%28again%29
Concerning the built-in TBC is also excellent in most of the cases. Sometimes, when there is a defect on the tape, the line correction introduces a shift in one of the fields (what you call vertical instability), but it is quite rare in my case and is easyble fixable with a simple AviSynth script shifting back by few lines the field, whitout affecting the overall quality.

I use my ES-10/ES-15 only for bad tapes when the TBC correction of the VCR is not strong enough. But it has its disadvantages, you mentioned one about the brigthness clipping, so I am not a big fan of it. Even because I do not like all that lossy connections through many devices; also the lossy conversion inside the device from tape-native Y/C to Component is not appropriate (but maybe your BlackMagic performs better with this input, I do not know).

Converning the multiple captures and the Median() processing, I find it not effective for my material, probably because the tapes and the hardware are in excellent shape, so the captures are consistent among them in their characteristics. An example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NJrxD0I_tU
In addition, if the overall plan is to reduce the noise, a simple processing with TemporalDegrain2() in AviSynth produces far better results, and I found no advantage in multiple captures and Median() processing. YMMV.
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