madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by pose

Georgel, what setting do you use for 720p anime? Sunset1982 i will be waiting!

Sorry for late answer!

I am using a GTX 860m GPU so these settings are relevant for this GPU, maybe a weaker one, as with a stronger one, you can crank up SuperRes and many other settings!

Deinterlacing - all off

artifact removal - High / high

reduce ringing - on, without second option

all image enhancements off

chroma - Jinc / with AR without SuperRes because my GPU cannot do SuperRes

downscaling, SSIM, 1D - 100%, with soft AR, scale in linear light, AB at 150%

image doubling off

image upscaling - JINC with AR and Sigmoidal light

upscaling refinement - Sharpen edges at 4.0, Thin edges at 8.0, AR at 150 %, AB, Refinne once after upscale complete, all other off.

Render settings, both CPU and GPU maxxed out,

disabled all 3D options

disabled smooth motion

dithering- none

[Nevilne]

Can you even give a worse advice on purpose

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Nevilne

Can you even give a worse advice on purpose

Looks ok to me. What do you use?

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by Nevilne

Can you even give a worse advice on purpose

Why do you say that?

The result image is very clean, smooth, crisp and has a lot of detail.

It looks very improved compared to the un-filtered version. It looks higher resolution, to put it bluntly.

Higher resolution, and without adding any aliasing or artifacts.

This is one reason for that I was unable (so far) to use anime + SVP, SVP just adds too much artifacts for me.

P.S. I would crank Super Res up, but the perceived quality gain from using edge thinning and edge sharpening is much higher than when using Super Res. This and for a GTX 860m, super res is a bit too stressful.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Nevilne

Can you even give a worse advice on purpose

On 720P anime which is already reasonably detailed these settings come across to me to be quite excessive and would likely be harming image quality considerably, debanding at maximum for 720P?
How bad are these videos?

The first thing you should be doing is viewing high bitrate videos, I keep mine on low, set a shortcut to change it if the source requires.

On 720P I usually just upscale with NNEDI3 (which doesn't make that much of a difference on a 1080 screen TBH) downscale with SSIM 1D without AB maybe do some reasonable SE and CE sharpening and that's it. Line thinning was kinda useful on some soft ~640x480 anime I had but it even at lower settings in some areas didn't produce good results which is why I asked madshi about adding warpsharpen to madvr which is considerably better for anime.

Originally Posted by Georgel

The result image is very clean, smooth, crisp and has a lot of detail.

Link me a sample file that you feel your settings look good on and upload your settings.dat and I'll do a screenshotcomparison vs what I would use.
I might be able to make you reconsider what is considered good image quality.



Madshi, would it be possible to add to madVR the ability for it to remember settings for certain videos?

For example if I watch a video that has poor color and lots of banding and I hit a couple of hotkeys to change these defaults, could another hot key be pressed to remember those changes for any future videos played within that directory? That way if watching a series the user doesn't need to perform these adjustments again and again.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

For example if I watch a video that has poor color and lots of banding and I hit a couple of hotkeys to change these defaults, could another hot key be pressed to remember those changes for any future videos played within that directory? That way if watching a series the user doesn't need to perform these adjustments again and again.

You can already do that by adding tags to the directory name. But I agree that it would be nice to have a "use these settings for all files in this directory" function that doesn't rely on renaming the directory (and a "remember these settings for this file").

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Georgel

Sorry for a delayed response.

I don't get any banding, since I am also using reduce banding artifacts with high / high on processing -> artifact removal.

I also use reduce ringing artifacts too from there!

Debanding as set there has nothing to do with the banding due to lack of dithering, in fact on high/high it would make it worse by blurring details that help disguise the banding caused by rounding down (instead of dithering) madVR's internal 16-bit data to 8-bit.

Are you watching close to a large low resolution display?

Originally Posted by Warner306

Looks ok to me. What do you use?

Debanding high/high? Thin edges 8.0? Sharpen edges 4.0? Dithering off?

I watch mostly anime and I would never use anything like that and strongly recommend no one use them unless testing for themselves. Definitely settings that should not be recommended generally.

[70MM]

Guys Ive started to get some very pleasing images now without using Image Doubling with my 1080 card through my JVC X9000 projector.

Question please...
I can easily do NNED13, 128 neurons from Chroma Upscaling, SR and many other features turned off except AR. No dropped frames and all the queues sit on 7-8/8

I can also move up to NNED13, 256 neurons with no dropped frames, the only thing that goes down is the present cue from 7-8/8 to 6-8/8.
What I want to know should I remain on the higher NNED13, 256 neurons since all looks fine, is it considerably better than the 128 neurons???

Its so hard to tell as the picture is remarkable...

Again thanks to all those that have helped me understand more about madvr...

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Guys Ive started to get some very pleasing images now without using Image Doubling with my 1080 card through my JVC X9000 projector.

Question please...
I can easily do NNED13, 128 neurons from Chroma Upscaling, SR and many other features turned off except AR. No dropped frames and all the queues sit on 7-8/8

I can also move up to NNED13, 256 neurons with no dropped frames, the only thing that goes down is the present cue from 7-8/8 to 6-8/8.
What I want to know should I remain on the higher NNED13, 256 neurons since all looks fine, is it considerably better than the 128 neurons???

Its so hard to tell as the picture is remarkable...

Again thanks to all those that have helped me understand more about madvr...

While I do think 256 neurons looks better than 128 it is less significant than the difference between 128 and 64, which is less significant than 64 and 32, etc.
Edit: this is for Luna doubling, are you talking about chroma only? For chroma I never use above 32 neurons because I never could find a source where I could tell the difference.

Once present starts to go a little slow you are very close to the edge, I might turn it down to 128, or just use 32 neurons for chroma upscaling. Can you tell the difference between 32 and 128 neuron chroma upscaling? I cannot.

BTW, it is NNEDI3, Neural Net Edge Directed Interpolation, version 3.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

While I do think 256 neurons looks better than 128 it is less significant than the difference between 128 and 64, which is less significant than 64 and 32, etc.

Once present starts to go a little slow you are very close to the edge, I might turn it down to 128, or just use 32 neurons for chroma upscaling. Can you tell the difference between 32 and 128 neuron chroma upscaling? I cannot.

BTW, it is NNEDI3, Neural Net Edge Directed Interpolation, version 3.

Ok nice to know, I will just leave it at 128 and I really cant see an improvement on 256....Many thanks for the correction NNEDI3

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by Georgel

The result image is very clean, smooth, crisp and has a lot of detail.

Happy Happy Joy Joy then, what matters is that you like what you see coz at the end of the day the only thing that matters is your own satisfactshun.

All this said I have no idea how anyone can bear having any of the two dithering sub-options enabled so maybe you could try vanilla ED2 with both of these pesky things disabled as one makes the noise dance around on top of the picture and the other creates very faint color fringing

[70MM]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Happy Happy Joy Joy then, what matters is that you like what you see coz at the end of the day the only thing that matters is your own satisfactshun.

All this said I have no idea how anyone can bare having any of the two dithering sub-options enabled so maybe you could try vanilla ED2 with both of these pesky things disabled as one makes the noise dance around on top of the picture and the other creates very faint color fringing

Are you mentioning here not to have ticked "Use coloured noise" and "change dither for every frame"

Im currently using Error Diffusion Option 2 with the two above ticked...

Is it cleaner without using them?

I only ticked them as a tutorial on the web said to tick both

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Ok nice to know, I will just leave it at 128 and I really cant see an improvement on 256....Many thanks for the correction NNEDI3

Chroma isn't that big of a deal, personally I can't imagine ever using anything about 32 or 64 neurons if I choose to use NNEDI3. I feel super-XBR is a far better option. Why not use a few videos for comparison to evaluate the difference?

I did a test on my GTX 960 on a full HD video and it took my rendering time up from 11ms to 28ms.. if you're going to used NNEDI3 for chroma then consider 64 neurons, that was like 16ms here. I doubt you'd notice the difference between 64 and 128 neurons. If you're not using this performance for anything else... sure, but it's excessive and you wouldn't find me using it, even if I had a Titan X!

As always I would recommend users always evaluate the difference in picture before changing options, especially the high cost options. NNEDI3's sweet spot is 64 neurons as far as cost to upscaling improvements is concerned. I feel anything higher for chroma really is just wasting power. If you can't visually see a difference then there's no point in changing it if it costs more performance, more heat, more noise, more on your bill. Doesn't make much sense.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Chroma isn't that big of a deal, personally I can't imagine ever using anything about 32 or 64 neurons if I choose to use NNEDI3. I feel super-XBR is a far better option. Why not use a few videos for comparison to evaluate the difference?

I did a test on my GTX 960 on a full HD video and it took my rendering time up from 11ms to 28ms.. if you're going to used NNEDI3 for chroma then consider 64 neurons, that was like 16ms here. I doubt you'd notice the difference between 64 and 128 neurons. If you're not using this performance for anything else... sure, but it's excessive and you wouldn't find me using it, even if I had a Titan X!

As always I would recommend users always evaluate the difference in picture before changing options, especially the high cost options. NNEDI3's sweet spot is 64 neurons as far as cost to upscaling improvements is concerned. I feel anything higher for chroma really is just wasting power. If you can't visually see a difference then there's no point in changing it if it costs more performance, more heat, more noise, more on your bill. Doesn't make much sense.

Oh Gee!
I thought using the higher 128 neurons with NNEDI3 was going to be the icing on the cake, but it looks like its not really worth it. I did know that Luma is much more important than Chroma and I have noticed that the rendering does go up, yet I thought since I had the 1080 card I should be using the highest settings....But you are right, my eyes don't seem to see anything better with the higher chroma settings

I wish there was some Luma settings that I could use to bump that side up since they say that Luma has the more important.

I will drop the Chroma upscaling back to 64 neurons and that too will really lower the render times....

My screen is pretty large, 120" dia 16:9 and 146" wide scope. I have to take care with some of the settings as if they are bumped up too high it really shows up artefacts!

Im learning stuff from this thread and many of you experts have been very helpful.

BTW all my watching is mainly BD rips, don't game or show much animated progs. No TV or anything else like that....

However I have stopped using Image Doubling after many here said its not really worth it on 1080 > 1080 BD rips....

[chros]

Originally Posted by ionutm80

The 25Hz rezolution is not supported by TV and so these movies are displayed at 50 Hz. madVR stats are reporting 1 frame drop every 8-9 hrs or even 1.2 days (i have very light up-scaling options) but shows a huge number of repeated frames and the counter does not stop.

That's strange, it shouldn't work like this.

Originally Posted by ionutm80

Is it because the 25 fps movie in order to be displayed on 50 Hz screen the number of frames need to be doubled?

No. There's no doubling is used unless: do you have Smooth Motion enabled? If so, then disable it, you don't need it at all if display refresh rate is really close to the origin fps.

Originally Posted by ionutm80

Is this something normal or am I doing something wrong here?

No, it's not normal, and you do everything well.
This is how I use 29.97/30 fps content with 60Hz (in PC mode: it treats chroma differently).

[Sunset1982]

Originally Posted by ShiftyFella

LumaSharpen is good sharper and I prefer it over AdaptiveSharpen but saying that I'm not big fan of LumaSharpen as using low values does nothing for me and with bigger values I noticed it sharpens noise as well, so I prefer to use Crispen Edges with Enhance detail instead as it achieves better result for my taste without really amplifying noise\film grain

Ok, thank you for your explanation. What values are you using with Crispen Edges and Enhance Detail?

[robl45]

Hello,

Is there any guide to what the Intel HD 530 internal graphics can handle? I'd like to see if I can get better picture out of madvr. Have never really played with the settings.

[AntonP]

Originally Posted by robl45

You can't, you get the 3d refresh rate that you get and for nvidia that is 23.971 or so. Reclock certainly works fine with this, I have used it for years, but you aren't going to get bitstreaming like that so I have switched to using the internal intel graphics. Heck of a waste on a GTX950, but oh well.

At any rate. Reclock will take and speed up the video to 24 fps and match the audio. You should set your refresh at the nvidia 23hz setting which is 23.971 and let reclock do its thing.

I cant agree with you. For perfect playback with no dropped or repeated frames monitor's refresh rate (from nvidia) and movie's fps should be exactly the same.
Reclock makes 24fps movie from 23.976 and with 24Hz (madvr 1080p24 mode) displays refresh rate the picture is perfect! With 1080p23 mode (23.971 from nvidia) there are dropped frames. That's all about 2D. In 3D nvidia panel or windows display properties has both 23p and 24p modes, but madvr doesnt let me choose! There is not such an option in display modes smth like "1080p3D24p" ((




PS Reclock works with bitstream audio with now problems!

[robl45]

You don't understand how reclock works. Your refresh rate has to be the same as the movie for perfect playback. AFAIK, only intel can do perfect 23.976. With nvidia, you get 24hz or 23.971. Reclock will speed the move up to 24 and match the audio. 23.971 or 24hz makes no difference, you still are not matching the video and reclock will do the work. In the madvr display, you will see one frame drop or repeat like once every 8 hours or more if reclock is doing its job.

Originally Posted by AntonP

I cant agree with you. For perfect playback with no dropped or repeated frames monitor's refresh rate (from nvidia) and movie's fps should be exactly the same.
Reclock makes 24fps movie from 23.976 and with 24Hz (madvr 1080p24 mode) displays refresh rate the picture is perfect! With 1080p23 mode (23.971 from nvidia) there are dropped frames. That's all about 2D. In 3D nvidia panel or windows display properties has both 23p and 24p modes, but madvr doesnt let me choose! There is not such an option in display modes smth like "1080p3D24p" ((




PS Reclock works with bitstream audio with now problems!

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by robl45

Hello,

Is there any guide to what the Intel HD 530 internal graphics can handle? I'd like to see if I can get better picture out of madvr. Have never really played with the settings.

No, you'll need to test that for yourself "playing with the settings" is kind of a requirement to get the best (in your opinion) from it.