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Old 22nd August 2009, 14:50   #9221  |  Link
TinTime
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eac3to uses best compression I believe, but an older version of FLAC - v1.2.0. This might account for the size difference.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 15:18   #9222  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
now help me to understand the reason of differents sizes in the result.
I didn't read the long guide in your second link, so I'm not sure what you did there. The standard flac encoder uses compression level 5 by default, eac3to uses level 8 according to an earlier post by madshi (which is unfortunate IMO, since level 8 is quite a bit slower without significant gain in the compression when using the standard encoder). For some reason, eac3to seems to produce a slightly larger file (by roughly 10% in my tests) despite the higher compression level. I can reproduce that behavior here as well. Perhaps madshi will have an answer when he returns.

Last edited by Fiffy; 22nd August 2009 at 15:20.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 15:31   #9223  |  Link
hoju3508
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The Secret of Moonacre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
@hoju3508

Hi!That's rather unusual. May I ask the name of the BluRay?
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Old 22nd August 2009, 20:35   #9224  |  Link
setarip_old
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@hoju3508

I, for one, will be unable to look into your problem any further because:

1) I don't own "The Secret of Moonacre" on BluRay, and

2) My research indicates that "The Secret of Moonacre" doesn't appear to have been released in the U.S. yet (You indicate that you're in Austin, TX)
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Old 23rd August 2009, 13:49   #9225  |  Link
raquete
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@ qyot27, TinTime, Fiffy

was done with tebasuna51's guide and eac3to with the same flac version: "flac-1.2.1-win"
source wave: 193Mb (multichannel 5.1 24b/48k)

using the tebasuna51's guide, flac have 3 options to chose:
best, default and fast...was used "default", result: 127Mb

with eac3to was used this single command line(.bat file) :
eac3to RingoWave.wav RingoWave.flac, result: 145MB
then, i don't know the compression level used by eac3to...

was the default flac level used with eac3to?
(seems impossible as was the same flac version used in both and eac3to works like a charm too)
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Old 23rd August 2009, 15:37   #9226  |  Link
deathlord
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madshi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathlord View Post
eac3to does not write to my raid array.
When I write to a normal disk, everything is ok. As soon as I write to a raid 5 array (highpoint controller), eac3to becomes extremely slow (essentialy zero).
As someone suggested a few pages back, this is clearly caused by highpoint's various sector size feature (which allows you to have partitions > 2TB e.g. in Win XP).
I could confirm this by creating a new array that is identical to the old one except I have left the sector size at the default value. Eac3to then has no trouble writing the the array.
For arrays with non-standard sector size: while eac3to can read from such raid arrays, it can't write to them.
Maybe you can add support for this?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 15:54   #9227  |  Link
TinTime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
(seems impossible as was the same flac version used in both and eac3to works like a charm too)
Are you sure it's the same version of FLAC? According to foobar2000 any FLAC files I create with eac3to use v1.2.0.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:58   #9228  |  Link
raquete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
Are you sure it's the same version of FLAC? According to foobar2000 any FLAC files I create with eac3to use v1.2.0.
gee.. you're right, i see now what is different.
eac3to use libFLAC.dll(07/22/2007) and in tebasuna51 guide was used flac.exe(flac-1.2.1-win 09/16/2007).

i never had used eac3to, i download the file in 08/21/2009 09:33Am, not sure but i think that i got the file from the first post of this thread.(well, the first post is the best reference for me to got one trusty file and i don't read the complete thread searching new versions because it's a too big thread.)
or i download old eac3to version or may have a newer libFLAC.dll(or newer eac3to).

is the reason of differents final sizes?...(must be).
please, confirm and tell me if have and where have new libFLAC.dll version.
thanks!
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Last edited by raquete; 23rd August 2009 at 18:03. Reason: typos
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:06   #9229  |  Link
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Different flac size

I don't see relevant differences using eac3to (libflaac) and BeHappy (flac.exe):

Code:
Tommy_orig.wav  793.553.084
Tommy_eac3.flac 458.619.467 last eac3to v3.16, libflac 2007-07-22
Tommy_Best.flac 458.627.594 BeHappy 'best', flac 1.2.1 2007-09-16
Tommy_Defa.flac 460.107.514 BeHappy 'default', flac 1.2.1 2007-09-16
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Old 23rd August 2009, 19:35   #9230  |  Link
raquete
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tebasuna,
i did all again using the same process and adjusts as before and still got the same results from source 193Mb wave multi 5.1:
BeHappy (flac.exe) 127Mb
eac3to (libFLAC.dll) 147MB

looking yours source(793.553.084) and results sizes( 458MB~460MB) comparing with mine, 197MB(wave 5.1) to 127Mb(flac) seems the right compression(flac default level).

libFLAC.dll(07/22/2007) is the last version?

edit: log files...

eac3to v3.16
command line: eac3to RingoWave.wav RingoWave.flac
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAV, 5.1 channels, 0:03:55, 24 bits, 6912kbps, 48khz
Reading WAV...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "RingoWave.flac"...
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
eac3to processing took 1 minute, 51 seconds.
Done.
147MB

BeHappy (flac default)
Starting job RingoWave.wav->RingoWave.flac
Found Audio Stream
Channels=6, BitsPerSample=24 int, SampleRate=48000Hz
encoder\flac.exe --force -o "D:\00 D files\Tutoriais 5.1\EAC3to\RingoWave.flac" --silent --force-raw-format --endian=little --channels=6 --bps=24 --sample-rate=48000 --sign=signed -
Writing PCM data to encoder's StdIn
Finalizing encoder
Complete
127MB

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Last edited by raquete; 23rd August 2009 at 19:59. Reason: posting log files.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:22   #9231  |  Link
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Run both files through eac3to and see if they're the same length, samplerate, bit-depth, etc.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 20:39   #9232  |  Link
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Yes, using 5.1 sample seems there are big differences:

Code:
Espinado_orig.wav    219.230.276
Espinado_eac3.flac   172.426.732
Espinado_def.flac    148.999.614
Espinado_best.flac   148.305.326
Of course the 3 flac recover the original wav bitexact
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Old 24th August 2009, 01:31   #9233  |  Link
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Curious. I just tried encoding the soundtrack of the film "21" to flac - 16bit, 5.1, ~2 hours.

Both eac3to and the flac command line encoder (v1.2.1 using --best compression) produced the same size files (1.2GB), give or take a couple of KB.

I also tried a small sample of a 24 bit, 5.1 track and again the results were almost identical.
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Old 24th August 2009, 05:22   #9234  |  Link
hoju3508
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Correct, it's an import from the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
@hoju3508
2) My research indicates that "The Secret of Moonacre" doesn't appear to have been released in the U.S. yet (You indicate that you're in Austin, TX)
UPDATE: I'm using Clown_BD (which runs eac3to in the background) with the -slowdown option but now the audio and subtitle are both out of sync .

Last edited by hoju3508; 24th August 2009 at 05:28.
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Old 24th August 2009, 06:25   #9235  |  Link
raquete
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sorry to quote everybody but each detail is important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowknight26 View Post
Run both files through eac3to and see if they're the same length, samplerate, bit-depth, etc.
no differents files Snowknight26, is the same file from same path: "D:\00 D files\Tutoriais 5.1\EAC3to\RingoWave.wav".

Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Yes, using 5.1 sample seems there are big differences:

Code:
Espinado_orig.wav    219.230.276
Espinado_eac3.flac   172.426.732
Espinado_def.flac    148.999.614
Espinado_best.flac   148.305.326
Of course the 3 flac recover the original wav bitexact
yes, the same happens here tebasuna. i was thinking in upload my 5.1 source wave but now i see that no need as happened that same with yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinTime View Post
Curious. I just tried encoding the soundtrack of the film "21" to flac - 16bit, 5.1, ~2 hours.

Both eac3to and the flac command line encoder (v1.2.1 using --best compression) produced the same size files (1.2GB), give or take a couple of KB.

I also tried a small sample of a 24 bit, 5.1 track and again the results were almost identical.
i used eac3to command line and flac.exe v1.2.1default compression in BeHappy and got less size.
after change the flac configuration to "best" in BeHappy, the result have the same file size as using default...127Mb.
lol, now i'm really curious of what is happening TinTime.

cheers for all.
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Old 24th August 2009, 08:19   #9236  |  Link
raquete
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from FLAC 1.2.2 (@@-@@@-2007) changelog page:
http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*che...changelog.html
"libraries:
libFLAC encoder was defaulting to level 0 compression instead of 5" ( http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func...78&atid=113478 )

is the reason why eac3to is giving less flac compression?
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Old 24th August 2009, 10:52   #9237  |  Link
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Different compression with FLAC standalone

raquette, please see my previous post on this behaviour. Now I ran another round of tests just for curiosity and found the following facts quite interesting.
I used the first VOB of "Land of Women (PAL edition)" as the source.
Code:
eac3to v3.16
command line: "C:\Program Files\AVTools\eac3to\eac3to.exe" VTS_03_1.VOB  2: c:test.wav
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VOB, 1 video track, 3 audio tracks, 2 subtitle tracks, 0:19:26
1: MPEG2, 576i50 (16:9)
2: AC3, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48khz
3: AC3, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -28dB
4: AC3, 5.1 channels, 448kbps, 48khz
5: Subtitle (DVD)
6: Subtitle (DVD)
[a02] The Nero decoder doesn't seem to work, will use libav instead.
[a02] Extracting audio track number 2...
[a02] Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
[a02] Remapping channels...
[a02] Reducing depth from 64 to 24 bits...
[a02] Writing WAV...
[a02] Creating file "c:test.wav"...
[a02] The last (E-)AC3 frame is incomplete and thus gets skipped.  <WARNING>
Video track 1 contains 29162 frames.
eac3to processing took exactly 1 minute.
Done.
With that 5.1 multichannel WAV for testing I tried eac3to
Code:
eac3to v3.16
command line: "C:\Program Files\AVTools\eac3to\eac3to.exe" test.wav test_eac.flac
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAV, 5.1 channels, 0:19:26, 24 bits, 6912kbps, 48khz
Reading WAV...
Encoding FLAC with libFlac...
Creating file "test_eac.flac"...
The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
eac3to processing took 2 minutes, 16 seconds.
Done.
test_eac.flac = 435 640 726 bytes

When encoded directly with flac.exe (version 1.2.1)
Code:
flac.exe test.wav --best --no-seektable --no-padding --tag=VALID_BITS=24 --tag=HDCD=0 -o test_cli.flac
test_cli.flac = 435 306 274 bytes

Finally I replaced libFLAC.dll in eac3to directory with the latest version 1.2.1, encoded as before and added one tag manually because it was missing in the file:
Code:
metaflac.exe --set-tag=WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MASK=0x060F test_eac.flac
test_eac.flac = 435 306 274 bytes
Although they both have same filesize, they're not 100% identical! There are 2 differences in the data content
PHP Code:
13 bytes changed at offset 169E8B19
90 E8 96 
<> 50 E9 16
2
2 bytes changed at offset 169EB552
1A 49 
<> 86 46 
BUT...when they are decoded back to WAV then those WAVs are perfectly identical and match with original test.wav so everything is alright. How come they are encoded differently yet still provide same output when decoded is beyond my knowledge... Maybe someone with deeper understanding of FLAC algorithms can shed some light onto this.
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Old 24th August 2009, 11:39   #9238  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yesgrey3 View Post
If one is encoded with version 1.2.1 and the other with version 1.2.0, and the version number is included in the file, then the files cannot match... but the audio data match.
You didn't read my post thoroughly, did you?
The data difference I point out occur in two files which were both encoded with version 1.2.1 of FLAC (one through libFLAC.dll, other through standalone flac.exe CLI).
Moreover, the difference happen to be in the DATA area of FLAC files, not in their headers where metadata are stored. Therefore I played with manually tagging file produced by eac3to in order to get them as much identical as possible. Which I almost succeeded by the way, it's just that difference exhibiting here cannot be fixed by any tagging, padding or any other harmless operations on files.
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Old 24th August 2009, 11:57   #9239  |  Link
raquete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
raquette, please see my previous post on this behaviour. .
yes, i read now....i don't saw before!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kypec View Post
Finally I replaced libFLAC.dll in eac3to directory with the latest version 1.2.1, encoded as before and...
and i did the same. download flac-1.2.1-devel-win, replaced libFLAC.dll and run eac3to.... :
file size now 127MB exactly size like using tebasuna51 guide!

great!
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Old 24th August 2009, 13:20   #9240  |  Link
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Then seems there are good reasons to update libFLAC to 1.2.1 and this answer from madshi to kypec must be reconsidered:
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Is there any practical reason for updating? IIRC someone recently tried the newest libFLAC.dll and the FLAC files produced with the new dll were bit by bit identical to the ones produced with the dll shipping with eac3to. Updating to a newer dll could break something. So I don't really want to do that, unless there is a real benefit.
@kypec
If you are using libFLAC 1.2.1, do you know any problem running eac3to with this version?
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