Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
22nd April 2004, 01:34 | #24 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 147
|
Quote:
Actually, your collection has been very helpful; I'm learing a lot from playing around. I've been doing some testing, and it seems that most matrices scale *much* worse than I thought they would, so that 1CD matrices suck at HDTV, and high-detail matrices suck at 1CD. As a teaser, here's how things are so far (compared at 1024x576 from HD source, 24fps, 3800kb/s 2-pass, 300 frame sample): ultimate > bulletproof heavy compression > mb1DV = Maxlt = CCE VLB = andreas VCD ~=KVCD320 ~> h.263 > 4 rooms > evil0.1 > professional ~> mpeg > selur HDR > selur > andreas 99 > 6of9 > 28 days > Semi-insane I was surprised that Ultimate has come out on top so far, as I've never heard of it before, but there is no denying how amazingly good it is - and how amazingly bad 6of9 and Semi-insane are - in this test.
__________________
Stuff was here at some point. Last edited by SoonUDie; 22nd April 2004 at 01:38. |
|
22nd April 2004, 09:55 | #25 | Link |
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,753
|
Indeed, several matrices were made for specific reasons, and may fail in different circumstances. You shall always think of one fact: The lower the factors in a matrix are, the higher must be the per-frame / per-macroblock quantization factor to achieve a similar bitrate. Matrix factors quantize single frequency components, but the MBQF is multiplied to all the matrix factors at once.
|
22nd April 2004, 11:38 | #26 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,389
|
SoonUDie:
Dunno for sure what it is, but something must be flawed in your little test. Or you have a rather strange and special source. You're encoding to approx. 0.27 bits/pixel*frame, and that's not low bitrate, and not really medium anymore. And you report that all the lumberjacker matrices deliver a better result than all of the high-bitrate matrices - that's confusing. Quick shot: your sample of 300 frames is rather short, there might have been issues with the rate-control in the 2nd-pass. Did you force quant=3 in the 1st-pass for the high-bitrate matrices? (I suspect you didn't.) But perhaps you are right - and I should switch back do DivX 4.01 for encoding - perhaps it looks amazing, in the meantime - Didée
__________________
- We´re at the beginning of the end of mankind´s childhood - My little flickr gallery. (Yes indeed, I do have hobbies other than digital video!) |
22nd April 2004, 11:46 | #27 | Link |
Ex-ter-mi-nate!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: www.videoaudio.pl
Posts: 218
|
Results of tests performed on The X-Files #8ABX03: "Redrum" with the Evil v0.1 matrix by SoonUDie and the MPEG matrix:
Average quantizer for Evil v0.1 = 4.556 Quantizers and frame types for Evil v0.1: I-frames - 1.28 % P-frames - 22.98 % B-frames - 61.88 % S-frames - 13.87 % 2 - 0.3 % 3 - 23.0 % 4 - 23.7 % 5 - 34.6 % 6 - 14.7 % 7 - 3.2 % 8 - 0.2 % 9 - 0.2 % >9 - 0.1 % Average quantizer for MPEG = 4.247 Quantizers and frame types for MPEG: I-frames - 1.28 % P-frames - 22.67 % B-frames - 61.90 % S-frames - 14.16 % 2 - 1.6 % 3 - 25.6 % 4 - 30.1 % 5 - 34.9 % 6 - 6.4 % 7 - 0.9 % 8 - 0.2 % 9 - 0.2 % >9 - 0.1 % And here are the knife screenshots: I took some more screenshots from this episode. The first series shows the face of an actor named Joe Morton (HVS - Good Picture, HVS - Best Picture, MPEG, Evil v0.1, Jawor's 1CD): The second series comes from a high motion scene: Again, it seems to me, that my matrix preserves the highest amount of detail in both comparisons above. Tell me, am I right or not? Currently I'm doing a backup encode of K-PAX (anamorphic, PAL, 2.35:1) with Jawor's 1CD Matrix. The second pass will finish probably tomorrow evening (my system is quite slow), so you'll have to wait until next week to read my report. @SoonUDie: Thanks for the link. Last edited by Jawor; 27th April 2004 at 17:59. |
22nd April 2004, 13:04 | #28 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 147
|
Jawor,
After comparing your captures in Paint Shop Pro, it looks like your matrix and HVS Best are tied for first place. I would have to see more evidence to determine which one is really better - yours tends to keep more "grain", which is better in some situations, but it also fails in some places where HVS Best doesn't - like on Gandalf's teeth Also, your screen of the man's face with HVS Good is different from the rest in that series. You may want to re-upload the correct frame.
__________________
Stuff was here at some point. |
22nd April 2004, 13:10 | #29 | Link | |
Ex-ter-mi-nate!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: www.videoaudio.pl
Posts: 218
|
Quote:
|
|
22nd April 2004, 14:31 | #30 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 147
|
@Didée
My evaluation of different matrices for HD encoding is definately an incomplete, ongoing process, and is prone to error. Please take my evaluations with a grain of salt. File sizes varied by up to 7% (I consider 1% acceptable for "full testing"), so there's a large chance that the matrices with larger file sizes ended up looking better. If we go down to 1% with my previous test, I can confirm relationships between smaller groups of codecs, but not all of them. I hope to fix this in the future, when I have time (mostly by using longer samples). Is there any way to batch the encoding process?
__________________
Stuff was here at some point. |
22nd April 2004, 19:05 | #31 | Link | |
XviDer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 190
|
Quote:
its in doom9 guides i think
__________________
www.the-unforgiven.info |
|
22nd April 2004, 20:28 | #32 | Link | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
|
|
22nd April 2004, 21:14 | #33 | Link |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Sorry in advance for those on dialup for the horrendous load times this will cause.
Okay settings are as follows QPEL, GMC, MSP=6, VHQ=4 Bframes:2/1.5/1,Chroma Motion,Chroma optimizer. AVS: ConvertToYV12() Trim(515,105060) Crop(4,0,-4,0) UnDot() LanczosResize(640,480) Used Evil .1, Jawor's 1CD, and HVS-Best, and this is the order the of the pics. |
23rd April 2004, 03:21 | #36 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 147
|
@ObiKenobi
Comparing each shot, I get the following rankings: scene 1 Jawor ~= HVS > evil scene 2 Jawor ~= HVS > evil scene 3 HVS > Jawor > evil scene 4 Jawor > HVS > evil (evil has least blocking, but least detail) scene 5 evil > HVS > Jawor scene 6 Jawor ~= HVS > evil scene 7 Jawor (least blocks) > HVS (most detail, most blocks) > evil name 1st 2nd 3rd ---------------------------- Jawor 5 1 1 HVS 4 3 0 Evil 1 0 6 I think Jawor's is the winner in this case, but HVS is really close. In most scenes, it tended to have slightly less fine details, slighty more "sharpenss", and slightly less blocks. Evil just sucks (at anime?) . I think I'll do a "re-do" of the evil matrix using a different methodology. Version 0.1 was optimized only for a specific scene (and it kicked ass there), and I was hoping it would do better in general. This time, I'll try averaging the results of the optimization over many different scenes / movies. I would have before, but in general I'm kind of lazy. Quote:
__________________
Stuff was here at some point. |
|
23rd April 2004, 07:17 | #38 | Link |
Ex-ter-mi-nate!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: www.videoaudio.pl
Posts: 218
|
Yeah, that was a typo. Thanks again, Soulhunter.
@ObiKenobi: Actually I never thought of using this matrix for anime, since I designed it for "natural" movies. Thanks for this anime comparison. The screenshot of Joe Morton's face from HVS - Good Picture encode is OK now. Those who wait for my report about the K-PAX encode wil have to wait a few days longer, since I had to change the B-VOP settings (it's a normal backup encode, so I don't want to get an undersized file) and now I have to do both passes again. Stats Reader says that I'd get 571 MB after encoding with B-VOPs set to 3/1.50/1.00, so now I set them to 3/1.00/1.00. Currently I'm encoding my TV capture of The X-Files : "Via Negativa" at constant quantizer of 2 with settings similar to those I chose for "Redrum" (except for VHQ, now I use 4, cause this time it's a backup encode) and the resulting video file will certainly be smaller than 300 MB. |
24th April 2004, 12:23 | #39 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,259
|
btw. for those who encode animes:
you might also want to check out what happens if you boost b-frame sensivity, set b-frame offset to 0 and ratio to 1.0,.. (oh and set max b-frames to max i-frame distance) @Jawor: nice matrix Cu Selur |
24th April 2004, 19:42 | #40 | Link | |
Apprentice Ripper
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 90
|
Quote:
Q2. Max B frames = Max I frame distance? Pardon my stupidity but I dont understand that part. I dont remember a Max I frame Distance Option in XviD Q3. Forgive me if this Off topic but has anyone tried out Soulhunter's Anime Custom Matrix? Here's the link Soulhunter's Anime Matrix
__________________
My Rig(Not the best, but good enough) AMD Athlon XP 2100+ ATI Radeon 9700 PRO 80 GB Seagate HDD 7200 RPM LG 16X DVDROM Drive Kingston 512MB PC3200 DDR-RAM ABIT NF7 NForce2 MOBO |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|