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Old 21st April 2004, 13:21   #21  |  Link
SoonUDie
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Yeah, sure... But it can take some days, because I'd have to get more webspace.
I can host them. I'll PM you my email.
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Old 21st April 2004, 20:26   #22  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jawor
Yeah, sure... But it can take some days, because I'd have to get more webspace.
Get some free pic hosting here...


Bye
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Old 21st April 2004, 22:02   #23  |  Link
LigH
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Cute - 2 new matrices for my collection...
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Old 22nd April 2004, 01:34   #24  |  Link
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Cute - 2 new matrices for my collection...
oi...

Actually, your collection has been very helpful; I'm learing a lot from playing around. I've been doing some testing, and it seems that most matrices scale *much* worse than I thought they would, so that 1CD matrices suck at HDTV, and high-detail matrices suck at 1CD. As a teaser, here's how things are so far (compared at 1024x576 from HD source, 24fps, 3800kb/s 2-pass, 300 frame sample):

ultimate > bulletproof heavy compression > mb1DV = Maxlt = CCE VLB = andreas VCD ~=KVCD320 ~> h.263 > 4 rooms > evil0.1 > professional ~> mpeg > selur HDR > selur > andreas 99 > 6of9 > 28 days > Semi-insane

I was surprised that Ultimate has come out on top so far, as I've never heard of it before, but there is no denying how amazingly good it is - and how amazingly bad 6of9 and Semi-insane are - in this test.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 09:55   #25  |  Link
LigH
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Indeed, several matrices were made for specific reasons, and may fail in different circumstances. You shall always think of one fact: The lower the factors in a matrix are, the higher must be the per-frame / per-macroblock quantization factor to achieve a similar bitrate. Matrix factors quantize single frequency components, but the MBQF is multiplied to all the matrix factors at once.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 11:38   #26  |  Link
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SoonUDie:

Dunno for sure what it is, but something must be flawed in your little test. Or you have a rather strange and special source.

You're encoding to approx. 0.27 bits/pixel*frame, and that's not low bitrate, and not really medium anymore.

And you report that all the lumberjacker matrices deliver a better result than all of the high-bitrate matrices - that's confusing.

Quick shot: your sample of 300 frames is rather short, there might have been issues with the rate-control in the 2nd-pass.
Did you force quant=3 in the 1st-pass for the high-bitrate matrices? (I suspect you didn't.)

But perhaps you are right - and I should switch back do DivX 4.01 for encoding - perhaps it looks amazing, in the meantime

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Old 22nd April 2004, 11:46   #27  |  Link
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Results of tests performed on The X-Files #8ABX03: "Redrum" with the Evil v0.1 matrix by SoonUDie and the MPEG matrix:

Average quantizer for Evil v0.1 = 4.556

Quantizers and frame types for Evil v0.1:
I-frames - 1.28 %
P-frames - 22.98 %
B-frames - 61.88 %
S-frames - 13.87 %
2 - 0.3 %
3 - 23.0 %
4 - 23.7 %
5 - 34.6 %
6 - 14.7 %
7 - 3.2 %
8 - 0.2 %
9 - 0.2 %
>9 - 0.1 %

Average quantizer for MPEG = 4.247

Quantizers and frame types for MPEG:
I-frames - 1.28 %
P-frames - 22.67 %
B-frames - 61.90 %
S-frames - 14.16 %
2 - 1.6 %
3 - 25.6 %
4 - 30.1 %
5 - 34.9 %
6 - 6.4 %
7 - 0.9 %
8 - 0.2 %
9 - 0.2 %
>9 - 0.1 %

And here are the knife screenshots:



I took some more screenshots from this episode. The first series shows the face of an actor named Joe Morton (HVS - Good Picture, HVS - Best Picture, MPEG, Evil v0.1, Jawor's 1CD):






The second series comes from a high motion scene:






Again, it seems to me, that my matrix preserves the highest amount of detail in both comparisons above. Tell me, am I right or not?

Currently I'm doing a backup encode of K-PAX (anamorphic, PAL, 2.35:1) with Jawor's 1CD Matrix. The second pass will finish probably tomorrow evening (my system is quite slow), so you'll have to wait until next week to read my report.

@SoonUDie: Thanks for the link.
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Last edited by Jawor; 27th April 2004 at 17:59.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 13:04   #28  |  Link
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Jawor,

After comparing your captures in Paint Shop Pro, it looks like your matrix and HVS Best are tied for first place. I would have to see more evidence to determine which one is really better - yours tends to keep more "grain", which is better in some situations, but it also fails in some places where HVS Best doesn't - like on Gandalf's teeth

Also, your screen of the man's face with HVS Good is different from the rest in that series. You may want to re-upload the correct frame.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 13:10   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoonUDie
Also, your screen of the man's face with HVS Good is different from the rest in that series. You may want to re-upload the correct frame.
You're right. Shit, I can't do it today. The right screenshot should be uploaded tomorrow
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Old 22nd April 2004, 14:31   #30  |  Link
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@Didée

My evaluation of different matrices for HD encoding is definately an incomplete, ongoing process, and is prone to error. Please take my evaluations with a grain of salt. File sizes varied by up to 7% (I consider 1% acceptable for "full testing"), so there's a large chance that the matrices with larger file sizes ended up looking better. If we go down to 1% with my previous test, I can confirm relationships between smaller groups of codecs, but not all of them. I hope to fix this in the future, when I have time (mostly by using longer samples). Is there any way to batch the encoding process?
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Old 22nd April 2004, 19:05   #31  |  Link
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Is there any way to batch the encoding process?
in virtualdub[mod] when u save the file tick the chickbox at the bottom this will delay the encoding. repeat that with all encodes and when u want to run the batch job hit f4

its in doom9 guides i think
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Old 22nd April 2004, 20:28   #32  |  Link
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Originally posted by SoonUDie
Is there any way to batch the encoding process? [/B]
Yeah virtualdub has had batch encoding as far as I remember, and thats over 5 years. Just click don't run this job now when you save, and then after you save all the passes go to job control and start.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 21:14   #33  |  Link
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Sorry in advance for those on dialup for the horrendous load times this will cause.

Okay settings are as follows

QPEL, GMC, MSP=6, VHQ=4 Bframes:2/1.5/1,Chroma Motion,Chroma optimizer.

AVS:

ConvertToYV12()
Trim(515,105060)
Crop(4,0,-4,0)
UnDot()
LanczosResize(640,480)

Used Evil .1, Jawor's 1CD, and HVS-Best, and this is the order the of the pics.











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Old 22nd April 2004, 21:14   #34  |  Link
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Overall, my preference in order is HVS-Best, Jawor, and then Evil, but they all perform pretty good overall.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 21:25   #35  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jawor
@SoonUDie: Thanks for the link.
*cough* Erm... *cough*
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Old 23rd April 2004, 03:21   #36  |  Link
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@ObiKenobi

Comparing each shot, I get the following rankings:

scene 1
Jawor ~= HVS > evil

scene 2
Jawor ~= HVS > evil

scene 3
HVS > Jawor > evil

scene 4
Jawor > HVS > evil (evil has least blocking, but least detail)

scene 5
evil > HVS > Jawor

scene 6
Jawor ~= HVS > evil

scene 7
Jawor (least blocks) > HVS (most detail, most blocks) > evil


name 1st 2nd 3rd
----------------------------
Jawor 5 1 1
HVS 4 3 0
Evil 1 0 6


I think Jawor's is the winner in this case, but HVS is really close. In most scenes, it tended to have slightly less fine details, slighty more "sharpenss", and slightly less blocks. Evil just sucks (at anime?) .

I think I'll do a "re-do" of the evil matrix using a different methodology. Version 0.1 was optimized only for a specific scene (and it kicked ass there), and I was hoping it would do better in general. This time, I'll try averaging the results of the optimization over many different scenes / movies. I would have before, but in general I'm kind of lazy.

Quote:
*cough* Erm... *cough*
I'm sure that was just a typo
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Old 23rd April 2004, 03:35   #37  |  Link
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Well if you do I'll always be happy to run some tests on it, I got about 180 dvds to use
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Old 23rd April 2004, 07:17   #38  |  Link
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Yeah, that was a typo. Thanks again, Soulhunter.

@ObiKenobi: Actually I never thought of using this matrix for anime, since I designed it for "natural" movies. Thanks for this anime comparison.

The screenshot of Joe Morton's face from HVS - Good Picture encode is OK now.

Those who wait for my report about the K-PAX encode wil have to wait a few days longer, since I had to change the B-VOP settings (it's a normal backup encode, so I don't want to get an undersized file) and now I have to do both passes again. Stats Reader says that I'd get 571 MB after encoding with B-VOPs set to 3/1.50/1.00, so now I set them to 3/1.00/1.00.

Currently I'm encoding my TV capture of The X-Files : "Via Negativa" at constant quantizer of 2 with settings similar to those I chose for "Redrum" (except for VHQ, now I use 4, cause this time it's a backup encode) and the resulting video file will certainly be smaller than 300 MB.
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Old 24th April 2004, 12:23   #39  |  Link
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btw. for those who encode animes:
you might also want to check out what happens if you boost b-frame sensivity, set b-frame offset to 0 and ratio to 1.0,.. (oh and set max b-frames to max i-frame distance)

@Jawor: nice matrix

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Old 24th April 2004, 19:42   #40  |  Link
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Quote:
btw. for those who encode animes:
you might also want to check out what happens if you boost b-frame sensivity, set b-frame offset to 0 and ratio to 1.0,.. (oh and set max b-frames to max i-frame distance)
Q1. What value of B Frame Sensitivity ? 5?
Q2. Max B frames = Max I frame distance? Pardon my stupidity but I dont understand that part. I dont remember a Max I frame Distance Option in XviD

Q3. Forgive me if this Off topic but has anyone tried out Soulhunter's Anime Custom Matrix?

Here's the link
Soulhunter's Anime Matrix
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