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Old 3rd June 2019, 22:56   #56481  |  Link
tp4tissue
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I'm not so sure about that tho. Some blu-rays are closer to the colors in the cinema - for example Avengers: Infinity War. Or I may be wrong.

There are multiple humans in the chain.

There is no REFERENCE color grading.

No one has seen the original, because there isn't one. There IS NO RIGHT COLOR.


For example, a Professional cinema works with a contrast ratio of 500 : 1.

So material sent out to the theater is graded appropriately for that display system.

Your VA tv has 4-6000:1 contrast, Oled ~20,000:1

Whatever they did in the theater is completely inappropriate for discs meant for home display.


NOW, the team behind all of these different final representations (disc, theater, web) may be different, so different Artistic choices are made along the way by different humans..

ONE of these guys might like a little more green or a little more teal, HIS EYES may respond to colors differently than your eyes, It's a living imprecise system.


You get what you get. If your display is 3Dlut calibrated, That's that, you're good to go. TRUST your color grader, he's seen alot of movies, believe that he knows what' he's doing.

This doesn't mean mistakes never happen, but more often than not, it's a stylistic difference.
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Old 4th June 2019, 00:11   #56482  |  Link
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I'm not so sure about that tho. Some blu-rays are closer to the colors in the cinema - for example Avengers: Infinity War. Or I may be wrong.
I was talking about Nolan's UHD collection (or whatever it's called), not about format as a whole. Sure, you have studios cranking up saturation just because they can, but in this case we have something that's has been signed off by Nolan himself

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There is no REFERENCE color grading.
Yes, there is. It's called master copy (or interpositive, for analog color grading), which is signed off by director, DP, and chief colorist. This is the version from which all other copy's are being delivered from, until a new master copy is created from OCN. Hence the term "Remaster".

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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
For example, a Professional cinema works with a contrast ratio of 500 : 1.

So material sent out to the theater is graded appropriately for that display system.
No, they're not. If it happen, then all the blacks would appear as solid gray in theaters, not as elevated black. Otherwise trying to stretch contrast ratio from 500:1 to 4000:1 or infinite for Oleds would end up in horrifically crushing blacks.

Sure, Home Video presentation is graded differently than theatrical, but usualy it's not created separately, but by downgrading the latter.

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ONE of these guys might like a little more green or a little more teal, HIS EYES may respond to colors differently than your eyes, It's a living imprecise system.
Yes, when you have colorist tasked with creating a new transfer for a movie years letter, without input from original creators, you may end up with alterations to to the look of the movie. Sometimes creators themselves are going back to they earlier works and make revisionistic changes. But in case of Interstellar, Prestige and the rest of the package, their look on UHD makes perfect sense considering how Nolan makes movies.
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Old 4th June 2019, 01:31   #56483  |  Link
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Madshi's call. Time to reel it in.
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Old 4th June 2019, 10:15   #56484  |  Link
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before we start tinkering with colour we could really do with some new algos for near black / macroblocking / banding / etc for highly compressed material on OLEDS.

Pretty please

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Old 4th June 2019, 12:11   #56485  |  Link
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Given how much time he's spent on projector HDR optimization he owes us. :P
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Old 4th June 2019, 13:29   #56486  |  Link
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Hi everyone,

I have installed MadVR (with Potplayer) to watch HDR movies and this is working perfectly.

Now I wanted to take advantage of the upscaling features to watch my 1080p and 720p content on my 4K TV, but this makes my PC crash.
From my tests, the movies encoded in H.265 works most of the time and the results are incredible, but those in H.264 will crash the PC and make it restart as soon as activate the fullscreen mode (so no error dialog box from MadVR).
In the upscaling settings, if I choose something like "Cubic" it will work without problem (though not as sharp) but when I choose something like "super-xbr" or "NGU", that will make my PC crash.

Did I do something wrong, am I missing something ?


My specs:
Windows 10 x64
I7 4790
16 Go RAM
RTX 2080 Ti
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Old 4th June 2019, 13:33   #56487  |  Link
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Yeah you either have hardware or software instability. I assume that you've gamed on the 2080 yeah? If so that rules out problems with the hardware..
You should look first at uninstalling your graphics drivers with DDU and reinstalling, this isn't a issue with madVR, it's your system that's at fault.
Wouldn't hurt to run a System File Check too if you're still having issues after reinstalling the GPU driver.
Also, wouldn't hurt to reset settings for whatever media player you're using along with madVR, try that first.

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Old 4th June 2019, 13:58   #56488  |  Link
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look into the event viewer first.
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Old 4th June 2019, 20:55   #56489  |  Link
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@ neodraig

Does furmark run without problem ? chk if it's power related, maybe use occt to load the cpu and gpu simultaneously.
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Old 4th June 2019, 21:03   #56490  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoKlusz View Post

Yes, there is. It's called master copy (or interpositive, for analog color grading), which is signed off by director, DP, and chief colorist. This is the version from which all other copy's are being delivered from, until a new master copy is created from OCN. Hence the term "Remaster".

No, they're not. If it happen, then all the blacks would appear as solid gray in theaters, not as elevated black. Otherwise trying to stretch contrast ratio from 500:1 to 4000:1 or infinite for Oleds would end up in horrifically crushing blacks.

Sure, Home Video presentation is graded differently than theatrical, but usualy it's not created separately, but by downgrading the latter.

Yes, when you have colorist tasked with creating a new transfer for a movie years letter, without input from original creators, you may end up with alterations to to the look of the movie. Sometimes creators themselves are going back to they earlier works and make revisionistic changes. But in case of Interstellar, Prestige and the rest of the package, their look on UHD makes perfect sense considering how Nolan makes movies.

The master copy is TO BE REFERENCED, That doesn't mean there is a Reference Color Grading, because everyone sees color differently, and all the equipment at the user end is different from that used to create the master. The entire pipeline is Relative.


The theater copy is graded separately from the home copy. It simply has to be.

Your common movie theaters have 500:1 ansi-contrast, this is a flat fact.

More controlled environments may peak 800 to 1000:1. You can not use the same color grading from theater to TV.

Even if both copies are graded with the same artistic intent, they are represent very different brush strokes.

That's why most grading studios have a projector and a separate grading monitor.
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Old 4th June 2019, 21:42   #56491  |  Link
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Please, madVR development, not color grading. madshi can take on the suggestion and decide it if is useful and/or technically feasible enough to implement.
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Old 4th June 2019, 23:47   #56492  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Given how much time he's spent on projector HDR optimization he owes us. :P
OMG THAT was a ballsy statement! LOL!

(And yes, of course I know you were joking)
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Old 5th June 2019, 03:36   #56493  |  Link
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don't you think normal user have a reason to feel aborted? no word here on the RTX issues no bug fix release with over 1 year old assigned bugs to be fair none of the assigned bugs are important.

without leaning to far out of the window communication could be better.
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Old 5th June 2019, 04:05   #56494  |  Link
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He might have run into some issues with the Envy. Can't expect everything to go smoothly on a completely new piece of hardware with complex software. I would doubt that he isn't working on something related to this project. You just don't always get hear about it on these forums.

The developer in charge of this thread seems to do everything a step at time without much communication, unless online. Odd to me, too. He's probably not on a party boat making fun of you for complaining...

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Old 5th June 2019, 04:37   #56495  |  Link
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I should say that status updates on what is being worked on would help. I keep seeing the same faces here and especially at AVS Forum that really want to see a completed or near completed version of the tone mapping. They are already sold on using it over any other solution for HDR content on their projectors and don't have any idea when it might be finished. That includes many potential Envy customers who are currently on PC. The other issues mentioned...probably on the backburner until then.

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Old 5th June 2019, 05:38   #56496  |  Link
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Thankfully it looks like it's about 95+% done.. Let's hope he's satisfied enough with it at that point to put any further improvements on the shelf.
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Old 5th June 2019, 08:28   #56497  |  Link
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don't you think normal user have a reason to feel aborted?
No, they don't. It's not like they paid anything, right ? Madvr is a free software, and nobody is entitled to anything.

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I should say that status updates on what is being worked on would help.
But there are status updates. Development is active, test builds are released and work great, and he's working with the help of people from AVS (especially Neo-XP) on tweaking the dynamic tone mapping algorithm to get right movie scenes with sudden brightness changes like lightning flashes. And I believe next step is to implement some kind of buffering system to analyze a few incoming frames (he calls it "looking ahead") to enhance his DTM algorithm even more.

C'mon guys, just be patient and thankful that some guys are working their asses for free for all of us.
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Old 5th June 2019, 11:38   #56498  |  Link
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Most of us are fairly well aware of everything that you said. It doesn't change the facts though.
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Old 5th June 2019, 12:05   #56499  |  Link
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No, they don't. It's not like they paid anything, right ? Madvr is a free software, and nobody is entitled to anything.

C'mon guys, just be patient and thankful that some guys are working their asses for free for all of us.
Exactly. Only those can truly understand this who ever work(ed) on any software for the masses (free/opensource projects) for a longer period of time. The continuous and never ending problem solving - that not necessarily related to bugs in the software itself -, the long lasting support, the unstoppable moaning ... These definitely won't help to maintain interest. Not to mention real life that becomes more-and-more important in time.
If you ask bunch of devs whether they work on any free software, loads of them would say "screw that!"
He is "just" one guy and the project(s) got enormous ...
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Old 5th June 2019, 13:05   #56500  |  Link
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But there are status updates. Development is active, test builds are released and work great, and he's working with the help of people from AVS (especially Neo-XP) on tweaking the dynamic tone mapping algorithm to get right movie scenes with sudden brightness changes like lightning flashes. And I believe next step is to implement some kind of buffering system to analyze a few incoming frames (he calls it "looking ahead") to enhance his DTM algorithm even more.

C'mon guys, just be patient and thankful that some guys are working their asses for free for all of us.
That is true. But there are a lot of time gaps in communication and no clear indication on timeframes. Taking some time to answer unrelated questions would remove the frustration of those who post them.

I also agree that there is no reason to complain when builds are available for those that must have them. It does seem like madshi took on too much work for one person and needs to catch up. Burn out is possible and doesn't necessitate taking on even more work.
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