madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

madVR can do both.
it can with a trade for quality only shift the chroma by half a subpixel or it can first upscale the chroma channel to 4:4:4 and than downscale (better quality)

[mbordas]

madshi, have you ever considered the idea of writing a book on video processing and MadVR?

It might save you time in the long run, by answering the next 5K posts to this forum before they're asked

[Asmodian]

Most of the next 5K posts have already been answered. How many people would actually read said book? Besides me, of course.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by huhn

l or it can first upscale the chroma channel to 4:4:4 and than downscale (better quality)

what settings do i need to use for this in madvr, and how can i make sure the conversion workflow stays 10 bit ?


Madshi,

is this 4k down-conversion with the RGB 4.4.4 conversion workflow in the 10bit 4k domain (and then down conversion to 2k) very demanding on the GPU card version ? (i know any 4k output would require a high end card, but hope the downconversion process is much less demanding)

i am currently deciding on either a 1300gt or 1050gtx (2mb) card for my HTPC (priority being low power use, low heat generation for hot climate use, but max power for 2k madvr HT quality settings if possible) and only intend to use it for 1080p RGB 4.4.4 over hdmi to my 1080 display (which is a 10 bit panel with hdmi 1.4 input), but am hoping to be able to use high quality madvr settings specifically for this 4k downconversion (to 1080p RGB 4.4.4 @ 60 fpsec)

system specs: i7 4770k, win 7 64 bit, 32 gb ddr3 ram

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by zapatista

what settings do i need to use for this in madvr, and how can i make sure the conversion workflow stays 10 bit ?

Turn off the "trade quality for performance" option: "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance".

Edit:

Originally Posted by zapatista

(i know any 4k output would require a high end card, but hope the downconversion process is much less demanding)

Downscaling to 2K is harder than 4K output with 4K video. Scaling in good quality takes GPU power. For playback of 4K content, especially if you have to scale it, you really want a 4G video card. 3GB will work fine, but with some restrictions. A 2GB card isn't going to be good for madVR and 4K content. You also have to consider how you upscale the chroma to math the luma before conversation to RGB. madVR does all the math using 32bit operations and stores data internally at 16bit or 48 bits per pixel.

My 4K playback settings take 10.4ms per frame on my Titan X (Pascal), I can play for 4Kp60 but without a lot of headroom (60fps is 16.67ms per frame). NGU AA (med) chroma upscaling, SSIM1D100 LL AR downscaling.

I recommend you save up for a 4GB 1050 Ti if you are concerned about maintaining RGB downscaling.

[huhn]

processing is 16 bit+

[Steffenhh]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Most of the next 5K posts have already been answered. How many people would actually read said book? Besides me, of course.

10/10 would read

[el Filou]

@zapatista: I have a 1050 Ti and a 1080 display. I just tested letting madVR upscale chroma when playing 4K, and the card can barely handle 24p with Bicubic AR chroma, SSIM1D downscale, and high quality HDR conversion.
60p is out of the question even with Bicubic downscale.
I'd recommend either getting at least a 1050 Ti or preferably 1060 6GB (but it cannot decode 10-bit VP9), or forgetting about upscaling chroma with 4K. IMHO you'd lose more image quality having to use a lower quality downscaler to compensate.

[ryrynz]

Watched 4K blade runner 2049 on my 1060 6GB using SSIM 2D LL, upscaling chroma separately turned off (of course) and HQ HDR hue with NGU AA low for chroma. Had to overclock the card for it to have enough headroom and the fan was going pretty hard.. If u want to take HDR seriously (24fps) on a full HD TV a GTX 1060+ is a must. Asmodian will be jumping straight on Volta no doubt

[Pauls96]

My config is
gtx 970
fx 8370
16 gigs of ram
4k monitor without hdr support.
Windows 10
I can't setup madvr to render 4k HDR movies with potplayer and MPC-BE x64. With MPC it works for 2 minutes, and uses 75% of cpu, and 53% of gpu, but then it just stops and uses 1-2%, and video stutters, until i pause it for few seconds and then i can watch movie for another 2 minutes without stuttering. For these few seconds it uses no cpu and gpu. I also use LAV video decoder, and changing DXVA to d11 didn't helped. Tried different queue sizes, but none helped. Madvr settings

[el Filou]

Please post screenshots of madVR OSD (Ctrl+J) in normal and stuttering situations.

[Pauls96]

This time it worked for whole 7 minutes, i didn't paused it and it crashed MPC.
information before stuttering: and during stuttering

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

For playback of 4K content, especially if you have to scale it, you really want a 4G video card.

i was hoping that downconverting the 4k would not count as "playing it" (indicating my lack of knowledge on how the scaling is processed by the GPU i suspect, and yuv 4.2.0 4k to RGB 4k might also be a scaling step)) since i will only send it out as 1080 form the gfx card to the hdmi connected 2k display

Originally Posted by Asmodian

You also have to consider how you upscale the chroma to math the luma before conversation to RGB.

not sure i understand you, do i need to set a luma scaling setting in madvr ? with the 4k source file being 10 bit and the downconverted file being 10 bit, i thought the 4k conversion of YUV to RGB 444 would include the luma element

Originally Posted by el Filou

@zapatista: I have a 1050 Ti and a 1080 display. I just tested letting madVR upscale chroma when playing 4K

thank you for testing this, and if you have a good 1080p display (panasonic plasma ?) that can accept RGB 4.4.4 10bit @ 60fps it sounds like you are working with similar ideas as what i am hoping to achieve

note: some of the 4k files i will be playing might be HDR, i wasnt aware the conversion of HDR to SDR (all 1080 video being SDR i presume) would be an additional gpu load in the conversion process ( i thought the 4k luma 10bit would just be converted to luma 2k 10 bit, and my 360 nits 2k display would just clip anything it cant display )




i might be able to stretch my budget to a gtx 1050-TI with 4gb vram, but a 1060-6gb would be impossible. if i only have to loose the 60fpsec to be limited @ 30fpsec that would be a compromise i can work with (presuming the other 4k conversion steps to 1080 can work in madvr at high quality video settings)

having seen the glory of 4k YUV 4.2.0 video converted to 1080p 4,4,4 RGB (if the conversion to RGB occurs in 4k), i really hope i can get this working on my current setup by just upgrading the video card to a 1050-TI 4gb vram

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Watched 4K blade runner 2049 on my 1060 6GB using SSIM 2D LL, upscaling chroma separately turned off (of course) and HQ HDR hue with NGU AA low for chroma. Had to overclock the card for it to have enough headroom and the fan was going pretty hard.. If u want to take HDR seriously (24fps) on a full HD TV a GTX 1060+ is a must. Asmodian will be jumping straight on Volta no doubt

On a couple of mine I had to crank it down to SSIM 1D LL on my 1060. But in general it works very well and looks awesome.

[70MM]

I dont know if this has ever been asked...
Could madvr be capable of "Black Frame Insertion" or is it beyond its boundaries?

[ryrynz]

Pauls, just try unselecting both use separate device options and present a frame for every vsync and see if that changes anything.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

On a couple of mine I had to crank it down to SSIM 1D LL on my 1060. But in general it works very well and looks awesome.

Yeah SSIM 2D is sharper though with less artifacts and I don't want to settle.

Originally Posted by 70MM

I dont know if this has ever been asked...
Could madvr be capable of "Black Frame Insertion" or is it beyond its boundaries?

Definitely not beyond its boundaries but I believe Nevcairiel said it was pointless at typical refresh rates.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by 70MM

I dont know if this has ever been asked...
Could madvr be capable of "Black Frame Insertion" or is it beyond its boundaries?

yes madshi has talk about it.
i personally see no way this will ever work properly for a lot of reasons.
simple example a good BFI implementation needs show the frame for a very short time like 12 ms out of 16ms the best you could do with a 120 hz screen is about 8 ms.

[Pauls96]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Pauls, just try unselecting both use separate device options and present a frame for every vsync and see if that changes anything.

No, no difference, after few minutes all load on hardware stops. I also checked temperatures for both cpu and gpu they are around 50'C, which is normal, so it is not overheating.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Pauls96

No, no difference

I'm fairly certain then it's your CPU that's not up to snuff for 4K. Probably best to update your GPU to get HEVC hardware decode or just update the cpu/mobo.

Do you run into this same issue with EVR?
You also said with mpc it runs for 2 mins, I assume your performance issues occur with potplayer also?