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10th November 2015, 09:33 | #34181 | Link | |
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10th November 2015, 09:38 | #34182 | Link | |
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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10th November 2015, 10:07 | #34183 | Link | ||||||||||||||
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Of course it's all a matter of preference. If you prefer not turning madVR's sharpening algos on, that's perfectly fine. Quote:
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I'm not sure yet whether I would activate all 4 together with SuperRes, though. Will need to do some more tests to clarify that question. "thin edges" and "enhance detail" should definitely match well together with SuperRes. Not sure about the other two. From what I've seen SuperRes might already do something similar to a combination of "sharpen + crispen edges". But then, if the source is already rather soft, SuperRes alone might not suffice to produce a reasonably sharp final image because SuperRes' aim is not to produce a sharp image - but to produce an image faithful to the original unscaled source image. If the source image is soft, SuperRes' output will be soft, too. In that case using all 4 algos might make sense once again. |
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10th November 2015, 13:05 | #34184 | Link | |
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It does seem like overkill but there is a very noticeable improvement when they y is doubled and then downscaled compared to just using Jinc to upscale it directly. I too am still just testing these settings out. I will see what all 4 look like without SuperRes... heck I will even go way back and look at Jinc again as a direct upscale for the y (it has been a long time since NNEDI3 was introduced) QB
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Last edited by QBhd; 10th November 2015 at 13:12. |
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10th November 2015, 13:44 | #34185 | Link |
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Thanks Madshi, I checked with the AVSHD patterns, bar 17 barely flashes and it ramps up nicely from there. With MadVR outputting the video 'as is' and setting the TV to 2.4 bar 17 flashed very brightly, in fact 17-20 all flashed as brightly as each other. I was just wondering if MadVR applying a gamma curve, and then the TV applying it's own gamma curve would have a detrimental effect on quality (dithering is enabled in madVR).
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10th November 2015, 15:27 | #34186 | Link | |
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But this functionality raised new possibilities (I have just discovered not a long time ago): both my TV and my laptop display crush black level. On the laptop display I have to raise madvr gamma level (power curve) to 1.80 to be able to see the 18 bar My choice is for the TV: I set gamma on TV to 2.4 and set power curve gamma to 2.15 in madvr. It still clips bar 17 but the rest look good, and since I mostly watch TV during evenings/nights I vote for the darker picture with more depth. I have tried out on the TV: if I set gamma to 2.4 on TV and 2.00 (power curve) in madVR then the result will be (almost) the same as I had chosen 2.2 on the TV and left gamma on default in madvr.
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10th November 2015, 16:46 | #34188 | Link | |
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where can I find the custom levels setting?
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10th November 2015, 17:19 | #34189 | Link |
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In my case, on my TV I find 2.2 too bright overall, and 2.4 (even though it comes out of black very quickly, shadow areas are far too bright with both 2.2 and 2.4) a bit too dark overall and a bit too contrasty. Setting the TV to 2.2 and having MadVR apply a 2.35 gamma curve seems just about perfect.
Last edited by iSeries; 10th November 2015 at 17:22. |
10th November 2015, 19:27 | #34191 | Link | |
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@madshi: The new sharpen algorithm is better than the old adaptive sharpen, because it feels cleaner and more consistent. It's also better than crispen edges because it doesn't alias very much at all. (However, it's wtf expensive right now, hopefully that will change by a lot. It's not worth the performance hit at all, since it costs about the same as switching from superxbr to nnedi3) |
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10th November 2015, 19:37 | #34192 | Link | |
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It might just be that 2X SR alone actually oversharpened the picture, which would also explain why sxbr25 was all it took sometimes but there's really only one way to find out how that would react in combo with the new options and I might have already reached videophool territories at this point coz PQ kills anyway heh. |
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10th November 2015, 20:18 | #34193 | Link |
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Sharpen Edges is preferable to AdaptiveSharpen because it is less artificial in appearance.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
10th November 2015, 20:50 | #34194 | Link |
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So all four sharpeners can be used at the same time? I am already using such low values. Obviously, my threshold for artificial sharpening is very low.
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
10th November 2015, 22:06 | #34195 | Link | ||||
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I'm not willing to spend any time on adding hacks for something that I'm sure is useless. So you'll have to provide some evidence to make me change my mind. Providing screenshot proof should cost you less time than it would cost me to add a hack for you. So if you're not willing to provide proof, then I'm not willing to add a hack. Sounds fair? Quote:
Yes, you can use them all at the same time. They change different attributes of the image, so they don't compete against each other very much (maybe "crispen edges" competes a bit with "sharpen edges"). It's very important to differ between image enhancement and upscaling refinement, though. Upscaling makes the image rather soft (even when using NNEDI3), so after upscaling you can apply a lot more sharpening than you can before upscaling. I would be careful which algos to enable by default before upscaling (= image enhancements) at which strengths. There's much more room for sharpening in upscaling refinement. |
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10th November 2015, 22:14 | #34196 | Link |
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so when using both image enhancement and upscaling refinement, are both sharpeners then used twice? one time as general image enhancement and a 2nd time after upscaling? or how would this work?
and if you ticked one sharpener for image enhancement and a different one for upscaling refinement, would both then used? or is one of them disgarded? (e.g. the one with image enhancement in case image enhancement would get disabled if upscaling refinement is used as well at the same time)
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10th November 2015, 22:18 | #34197 | Link |
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Image enhancement is applied before scaling, upscaling refinement is applied after upscaling. So yes, if you activate both, and then upscale, both will be applied separately ("twice"). At least that's the case atm. I have some ideas how to maybe streamline the whole thing, but the algos will need improvements before I can do that.
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10th November 2015, 23:14 | #34199 | Link |
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I think that we should probably not use image enhancements if there's any upscaling (and especially superres) involved, but that it can look pretty good at low strength for native pixel material. I'm using different profiles (srcWidth=1920 or not) to manage which set of settings gets applied.
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10th November 2015, 23:31 | #34200 | Link |
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I have a pretty general question about scaling which I think people in this thread are likely well positioned to answer, but apologies if this goes too far off topic. Basically, I'm wondering if you have an HD source which itself has been upscaled from SD but using a poor algorithm (e.g. bilinear), is there likely to be any benefit in downscaling it back to SD and re-upscaling it using a better algorithm? Or would it always look worse?
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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