Someone Suggest a Good TV Tuner Card

smokeslikeapoet · 12th February 2002, 17:08

I am looking for a good TV tuner card. Can anyone suggest one for under $100 US? I was considering buying an ATI TV Wonder. I would like to start encoding Seinfeld episodes to DivX.

macdaddy · 12th February 2002, 17:40

get one with the brooktree chip so you can use dscaler...

The IO Magic card can be found for around $40 USD

rmatei · 12th February 2002, 20:00

I like the Hauppauge WinTV cards (and they have Brooktree chips). I wouldn't recommend the TV wonder, they're not as universal because they have proprietary ATI chips. You can get a basic WinTV for around $40. I have one with all the features I could want at $90: remote, stereo tuner, FM tuner, S-vid and composite in... (here)
Quality doesn't really get any better and full screen uncompressed capture is smooth.

Emp3r0r · 12th February 2002, 21:10

If i passed that image out my video card using it's TV output would I see the TV image?

Specifically:

Cable -> WinTV Card In

Radeon VE Out -> TV In

Ookami · 12th February 2002, 22:01

The best are Asus cards (Chrontel chip)...

Search trough the capture forum, ther you'll find plenty of discussions.

macdaddy · 13th February 2002, 05:57

are chrontel chips compatible with dscaler?

You have to identify the need. If you intend to scale the image to HDTV or projector, you should use dscaler...

If you just want to output to your monitor, any card will do the trick...

You should be able to use any of them with virtualdub to capture...

Yes Emp3r0r, that setup would work. I don't know how the video out is with the ati...

Ookami · 13th February 2002, 11:09

No, as the Asus cards don't have a BT chip... BTW, I was talking about quality, and here are Asus and the Elsa Erazor III the best. The Elsa cards is unusable (driver issues) so only Asus is the way (highest quality)...

So if you want the best capture quality you should go to Asus + their TV box (or you could use a SVHS VCR as a tuner...). I have both (TV box, SVHS VCR) and can only say the quality is great...

Smokeslikeapoet, wrote that he want to capture from the card (as I understood), so he should decide (quality - Asus or compatibility - BT ).

As I said, in the capture forum you can find many threads. I also repeatedly pointed to the german www.ultimateboard.de forum as it's the best forum for capture issues (IMO, that is). Luckily, Doom9's forum has such knowledgeable people, like mr. Graft, Luke, UTCK etc.
But the pros from Ultimateboard tested extensively almost every capture/tuner card that you can think off :-) and are so full of knowledge that I'm getting a headache when I read certain threads

.

IMO, the main disadvantage of the Asus card is that the there are not many capture res. to choose from (you can't capture at resolutions like 352x576 :-( ). However, if you want quality you will always capture at full PAL (or NTSC). If you are interested, I can upload a very small (~1-2 MB) clip, so you can see for yourself. I would do only deinterlacing and resizing.

Cheers,

Mijo.

Quote:

Originally posted by macdaddy
are chrontel chips compatible with dscaler?

You have to identify the need. If you intend to scale the image to HDTV or projector, you should use dscaler...

If you just want to output to your monitor, any card will do the trick...

You should be able to use any of them with virtualdub to capture...

Yes Emp3r0r, that setup would work. I don't know how the video out is with the ati...

macdaddy · 13th February 2002, 16:43

Ookami is right, although I know that some people are modifying brooktree cards to accept DVI input, along with sources like DVD players and satellite receivers, so the signal stays digital all the way through the capture. Apparently this is the way to go, esp. to get rid of the noise...

In Emp3r0r's case it seemed like he wanted to scale the output in someway, too. As far as tvout quality goes, the h+/dxr3 give the best composite out imho. This goes to a standard NTSC television, but the output is superior to the nvdia/tvtool and my radeon64 composite out. This is the main reason I have already ordered an xCard, hoping that their tvout supremacy will continue. HDTV is another story, and the Radeon does a better job with that, but I won't be able to afford the display I want for quite some time still, so NTSC will have to do (for now)...

Emp3r0r · 13th February 2002, 23:46

actually, i was interested in a tv card so I didn't have to buy a vcr if I wanted to use something other than the tuner in my tv. I own no vhs tapes, yet I have access to 1000's. I really only care about dvd, divx, and if i got a tv-card, tv-capture.

On a side note: does anybody see how terrible digital satellite looks lately, last time a saw it about a month ago, the image was terribly compressed looking. Is this due to the buyout cause I though Dish Network had less compression than DirectTV. Anyway, I was watching a football game and the grass looked all muddy on the field, it just so happens I had an antennea hooked up and with access to the same channel so I flipped it to the antennea. 10 TIMES BETTER PICTURE! no muddy soft looking image like on satellite. Anybody else kinda outraged by this?

rmatei · 17th February 2002, 08:25

Quote:

Anybody else kinda outraged by this?

Well, it's always the same trend towards more content as opposed to better content. The more channels you put in the more ads you can sell, and of course, the only purpose of TV is to put you in front of ads.

Actually I didn't know satellite TV was so badly compressed. Now that I do, I know I won't switch to satellite for better quality. It's like HDTV, until consumers cry out for it, providers will cram more channels in lower quality DTV on the available bandwidth.

macdaddy · 18th February 2002, 17:01

It's funny that you brought that up, Emp3r0r. Since subscribing to digital cable, I have found that many broadcasts are filled with macroblocks-a helluvalot more than I get when compressing to SVCD or XviD. Not to mention that while the service is billed as "digital," there is no component video out, nor is there s/pdif or toslink audio out, only red and white analog outs (L, R)...

Kicking around the avs forums will lead you to discussions detailing how the manufacturing and movie companies are trying to prevent DVI output via computers, and that the next generation HD-DVD will be a different size, so it won't fit in current PC drives, and that likely compatible drives will NOT be made for PCs...

I am amazed that you can drop the coin for the hardware and the DVDs-either by purchase or rental, pumping big bucks into the economy, and it's still not enough-corporate greed truly appears to be insatiable-we knew that. But I am appalled that those within our own government are coddling to the lobbyists as much as they are. And before the Europeans start flaming me, telling me the US sucks and is the root of all evil, realize that the same thing is happening in your countries as well. In fact, while I think the EU is good idea, the consolidation will only facilitate the anti-consumer, pro-business trends...

nl011010 · 22nd February 2002, 03:05

does anyone have any info on ntsc software cable descrambling? i know for sure that there are programs in europe (i.e. cablecrypt) for BT848, BT878 chip-based cards, but none (that i know of for) US NTSC cards. i have an ati all-in-wonder 128 card which would probably be incompatible with any of these kinds of program (if they existed) because its a crappy tv card. anyway, does anyone know if there is a soft descrambler? can someone give me more info on ati all in wonder cards?

dragoman · 22nd February 2002, 06:56

Hi,

I have an ATI All in Wonder Radeon.

Also interested in a software cable-descrambler compatible with this....

Thanks,

dragoman

MadManMund · 23rd February 2002, 23:47

Well, I have found a descrambler for the ATI AIW cards at:

http://eng.exotv.de/

The only problem is that is does not support NTSC. This is the only program that supports the ATI that I have found.

Anyone seen one that supports the ATI AIW cards and NTSC?

Read this:
http://theforum.de/Public/HTML/B18/6661-1.topic.shtml
http://theforum.de/Public/HTML/B18/4930-1.topic.shtml

hoonstein · 24th August 2002, 02:59

hi

is the Life View fly video 3000 tv/capture card any good compared to other cards?

thx

droolian01 · 24th August 2002, 11:58

Hello there.

I wouldn't suggest getting the pinnacle rave (or pro same card with remote control and stereo radio), read my earlier post as to why:-

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=32089

Hmmm, Chrontel chip.... sounds interesting. I have only just built my new pc and got a ati 9000 based card (excelent tv out - don't play games but with this cheap card i have the option).
Can i get just a 'tv card' based on the chrontel chip or is it purely used in 'graphics/capture/aiw' type cards?

I'd risk getting a chrontel based 'pure' tv card (if they exist) but i would need someone to verify that i could capture at full D1 with a BT8xx based card (see link above) before shelling out on the 'same' card again.

Thanks

^^-+I4004+-^^ · 23rd September 2002, 16:42

i'm here to correct Ookami(cause i didn't see correction although he now proclaims he's got Philips SAA series capture chip on the same ASUS card...prehaps too much job heh O. ? ) :

Chrontel DOESN'T MAKE A/D chips!just D/A ones!
its a big difference!
Chrontel just makes ENCODERS(tv-out & so),
NOT DECODERS (video-in & so)

so there's NO WAY you'll see "Chrontel" name on your capture chip!
That is your tv-out chip (but as i've read on "tvtool" site
these are not so good tv-out solution...)

take a look:

http://www.chrontel.com/about/aboutus.htm

and

http://www.chrontel.com/products/products.htm

i am of strong belief that Chrontel NEVER produced video-in (a/d
converter,video decoder) chip!

[If i'm wrong,if you find ANY info that proves me wrong,i'll apologise...]

cheers_

Ookami · 26th September 2002, 18:20

Sigh. ^^-+I4004+-^^, like I stated in my e-mail to you my error with the Chrontel stuff has been corrected in a thread here, and I think that you will have quite a job to do if you gonna correct me in EVERY thread were I stated that the Asus has a Chrontel capture chip (AFAIK, the Chrontel is for the TV out). Altough, this is not one of them.

But, if you have the time, be my guest.

A few things you could also correct in my thread are:

a) the difference between "a" and "an"
b) the exact difference between Divx ;-) and the MPEG4
c) er, you get the point

But, you are correct. The Chrontel chip is used for TV out with the Asus 3800 card.

"(...) he now proclaims he's got Philips SAA series capture chip on the same ASUS card...prehaps too much job heh O. ? (...)"

Er, have I, again, mixed something up?

If the Philips chip (to be anal model SAA7113) is not used on this capture card then please provide a link and correct me.

Uh, after a long search I finally found some infos:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/video/9...deo-in-05.html

Cough, there are some infos on the THG review that are plain wrong (maybe issues with old drivers?). Like "max PAL video res." 704x512 ...

So, I hope everything is clear now.

BTW, I personaly don't care what chip is on my card, only what quality it provides, that is probably the main reason why I never get these names right (I should refrain from mentioning such details in the future :-) ).

BTW II, never thought that this thread is still alive

.

Cheers,

Mijo.

Ookami · 26th September 2002, 18:27

Additional info:

A good place to read user review of capture cards and other similar hardware is http://www.vcdhelp.com/ .

Direct link to "Capture cards": http://www.vcdhelp.com/capturecards

Cheers,

Mijo.

Enrico Ng · 28th May 2003, 18:09

I would not recc the ATI TV-Wonder. It is limited to 240 lines
so you can only do 640x240.

I got a ASUS TV-Tuner. I uses the Conexant CX23880 decoder chip. they say its 10bit.
I cannot use virtualdub or AVI_IO to capture with it.
I am able to use VirtualVCR and get 720x480 and compress with any codec.

The picture looks much better but still grainy. (although it may be due to my crappy connection).
One problem is that the audio sounds over amplified sometimes or just too soft.

I'm gonna try out their ASUS TVFM card that uses the Phillips chip soon.
It comes out this week.

12th February 2002, 17:08	#1 \| Link
smokeslikeapoet Born to Rip Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cordova, TN, USA Posts: 140	Someone Suggest a Good TV Tuner Card I am looking for a good TV tuner card. Can anyone suggest one for under $100 US? I was considering buying an ATI TV Wonder. I would like to start encoding Seinfeld episodes to DivX. __________________ --SmokesLikeaPoet When wrestling alligators the gator only has to win once. Read my Adventures In HDTV Capture Blog.

12th February 2002, 20:00	#3 \| Link
rmatei newbie extraordinaire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pacifica Posts: 248	I like the Hauppauge WinTV cards (and they have Brooktree chips). I wouldn't recommend the TV wonder, they're not as universal because they have proprietary ATI chips. You can get a basic WinTV for around $40. I have one with all the features I could want at $90: remote, stereo tuner, FM tuner, S-vid and composite in... (here) Quality doesn't really get any better and full screen uncompressed capture is smooth. __________________ rmatei http://dspguru.notrace.dk/rmatei.gif

12th February 2002, 21:10	#4 \| Link
Emp3r0r Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 769	If i passed that image out my video card using it's TV output would I see the TV image? Specifically: Cable -> WinTV Card In Radeon VE Out -> TV In __________________ ChapterGrabber - add names to your chapters \| AtomSite - open source AtomPub server

12th February 2002, 22:01	#5 \| Link
Ookami Xe-Rotaredom Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Croatia Posts: 1,029	The best are Asus cards (Chrontel chip)... Search trough the capture forum, ther you'll find plenty of discussions. __________________ "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible."

13th February 2002, 23:46	#9 \| Link
Emp3r0r Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 769	actually, i was interested in a tv card so I didn't have to buy a vcr if I wanted to use something other than the tuner in my tv. I own no vhs tapes, yet I have access to 1000's. I really only care about dvd, divx, and if i got a tv-card, tv-capture. On a side note: does anybody see how terrible digital satellite looks lately, last time a saw it about a month ago, the image was terribly compressed looking. Is this due to the buyout cause I though Dish Network had less compression than DirectTV. Anyway, I was watching a football game and the grass looked all muddy on the field, it just so happens I had an antennea hooked up and with access to the same channel so I flipped it to the antennea. 10 TIMES BETTER PICTURE! no muddy soft looking image like on satellite. Anybody else kinda outraged by this? __________________ ChapterGrabber - add names to your chapters \| AtomSite - open source AtomPub server

12th February 2002, 17:40	#2 \| Link
macdaddy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: City of Angels Posts: 109	get one with the brooktree chip so you can use dscaler... The IO Magic card can be found for around $40 USD

13th February 2002, 05:57	#6 \| Link
macdaddy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: City of Angels Posts: 109	are chrontel chips compatible with dscaler? You have to identify the need. If you intend to scale the image to HDTV or projector, you should use dscaler... If you just want to output to your monitor, any card will do the trick... You should be able to use any of them with virtualdub to capture... Yes Emp3r0r, that setup would work. I don't know how the video out is with the ati...

13th February 2002, 16:43	#8 \| Link
macdaddy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: City of Angels Posts: 109	Ookami is right, although I know that some people are modifying brooktree cards to accept DVI input, along with sources like DVD players and satellite receivers, so the signal stays digital all the way through the capture. Apparently this is the way to go, esp. to get rid of the noise... In Emp3r0r's case it seemed like he wanted to scale the output in someway, too. As far as tvout quality goes, the h+/dxr3 give the best composite out imho. This goes to a standard NTSC television, but the output is superior to the nvdia/tvtool and my radeon64 composite out. This is the main reason I have already ordered an xCard, hoping that their tvout supremacy will continue. HDTV is another story, and the Radeon does a better job with that, but I won't be able to afford the display I want for quite some time still, so NTSC will have to do (for now)...

18th February 2002, 17:01	#11 \| Link
macdaddy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: City of Angels Posts: 109	It's funny that you brought that up, Emp3r0r. Since subscribing to digital cable, I have found that many broadcasts are filled with macroblocks-a helluvalot more than I get when compressing to SVCD or XviD. Not to mention that while the service is billed as "digital," there is no component video out, nor is there s/pdif or toslink audio out, only red and white analog outs (L, R)... Kicking around the avs forums will lead you to discussions detailing how the manufacturing and movie companies are trying to prevent DVI output via computers, and that the next generation HD-DVD will be a different size, so it won't fit in current PC drives, and that likely compatible drives will NOT be made for PCs... I am amazed that you can drop the coin for the hardware and the DVDs-either by purchase or rental, pumping big bucks into the economy, and it's still not enough-corporate greed truly appears to be insatiable-we knew that. But I am appalled that those within our own government are coddling to the lobbyists as much as they are. And before the Europeans start flaming me, telling me the US sucks and is the root of all evil, realize that the same thing is happening in your countries as well. In fact, while I think the EU is good idea, the consolidation will only facilitate the anti-consumer, pro-business trends...

22nd February 2002, 03:05	#12 \| Link
nl011010 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5	speaking of tv cards.... does anyone have any info on ntsc software cable descrambling? i know for sure that there are programs in europe (i.e. cablecrypt) for BT848, BT878 chip-based cards, but none (that i know of for) US NTSC cards. i have an ati all-in-wonder 128 card which would probably be incompatible with any of these kinds of program (if they existed) because its a crappy tv card. anyway, does anyone know if there is a soft descrambler? can someone give me more info on ati all in wonder cards?

22nd February 2002, 06:56	#13 \| Link
dragoman DivX.com Mod Squad Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 370	Hi, I have an ATI All in Wonder Radeon. Also interested in a software cable-descrambler compatible with this.... Thanks, dragoman

23rd February 2002, 23:47	#14 \| Link
MadManMund Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 12	Well, I have found a descrambler for the ATI AIW cards at: http://eng.exotv.de/ The only problem is that is does not support NTSC. This is the only program that supports the ATI that I have found. Anyone seen one that supports the ATI AIW cards and NTSC? Read this: http://theforum.de/Public/HTML/B18/6661-1.topic.shtml http://theforum.de/Public/HTML/B18/4930-1.topic.shtml Last edited by MadManMund; 24th February 2002 at 00:10.

24th August 2002, 02:59	#15 \| Link
hoonstein Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 31	hi is the Life View fly video 3000 tv/capture card any good compared to other cards? thx

24th August 2002, 11:58	#16 \| Link
droolian01 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: uk Posts: 157	Hello there. I wouldn't suggest getting the pinnacle rave (or pro same card with remote control and stereo radio), read my earlier post as to why:- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=32089 Hmmm, Chrontel chip.... sounds interesting. I have only just built my new pc and got a ati 9000 based card (excelent tv out - don't play games but with this cheap card i have the option). Can i get just a 'tv card' based on the chrontel chip or is it purely used in 'graphics/capture/aiw' type cards? I'd risk getting a chrontel based 'pure' tv card (if they exist) but i would need someone to verify that i could capture at full D1 with a BT8xx based card (see link above) before shelling out on the 'same' card again. Thanks

23rd September 2002, 16:42	#17 \| Link
^^-+I4004+-^^ Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia [local name:Hrvatska] Posts: 551	Late breaking(?) i'm here to correct Ookami(cause i didn't see correction although he now proclaims he's got Philips SAA series capture chip on the same ASUS card...prehaps too much job heh O. ? ) : Chrontel DOESN'T MAKE A/D chips!just D/A ones! its a big difference! Chrontel just makes ENCODERS(tv-out & so), NOT DECODERS (video-in & so) so there's NO WAY you'll see "Chrontel" name on your capture chip! That is your tv-out chip (but as i've read on "tvtool" site these are not so good tv-out solution...) take a look: http://www.chrontel.com/about/aboutus.htm and http://www.chrontel.com/products/products.htm i am of strong belief that Chrontel NEVER produced video-in (a/d converter,video decoder) chip! [If i'm wrong,if you find ANY info that proves me wrong,i'll apologise...] cheers_

26th September 2002, 18:20	#18 \| Link
Ookami Xe-Rotaredom Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Croatia Posts: 1,029	Sigh. ^^-+I4004+-^^, like I stated in my e-mail to you my error with the Chrontel stuff has been corrected in a thread here, and I think that you will have quite a job to do if you gonna correct me in EVERY thread were I stated that the Asus has a Chrontel capture chip (AFAIK, the Chrontel is for the TV out). Altough, this is not one of them. But, if you have the time, be my guest. A few things you could also correct in my thread are: a) the difference between "a" and "an" b) the exact difference between Divx ;-) and the MPEG4 c) er, you get the point But, you are correct. The Chrontel chip is used for TV out with the Asus 3800 card. "(...) he now proclaims he's got Philips SAA series capture chip on the same ASUS card...prehaps too much job heh O. ? (...)" Er, have I, again, mixed something up? If the Philips chip (to be anal model SAA7113) is not used on this capture card then please provide a link and correct me. Uh, after a long search I finally found some infos: http://www6.tomshardware.com/video/9...deo-in-05.html Cough, there are some infos on the THG review that are plain wrong (maybe issues with old drivers?). Like "max PAL video res." 704x512 ... So, I hope everything is clear now. BTW, I personaly don't care what chip is on my card, only what quality it provides, that is probably the main reason why I never get these names right (I should refrain from mentioning such details in the future :-) ). BTW II, never thought that this thread is still alive . Cheers, Mijo. __________________ "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible." Last edited by Ookami; 26th September 2002 at 18:30.

26th September 2002, 18:27	#19 \| Link
Ookami Xe-Rotaredom Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Croatia Posts: 1,029	Additional info: A good place to read user review of capture cards and other similar hardware is http://www.vcdhelp.com/ . Direct link to "Capture cards": http://www.vcdhelp.com/capturecards Cheers, Mijo. __________________ "Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible."

28th May 2003, 18:09	#20 \| Link
Enrico Ng Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 128	I would not recc the ATI TV-Wonder. It is limited to 240 lines so you can only do 640x240. I got a ASUS TV-Tuner. I uses the Conexant CX23880 decoder chip. they say its 10bit. I cannot use virtualdub or AVI_IO to capture with it. I am able to use VirtualVCR and get 720x480 and compress with any codec. The picture looks much better but still grainy. (although it may be due to my crappy connection). One problem is that the audio sounds over amplified sometimes or just too soft. I'm gonna try out their ASUS TVFM card that uses the Phillips chip soon. It comes out this week. __________________ Enrico Ng Last edited by Enrico Ng; 28th May 2003 at 18:26.

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